You Didn’t Get Any Full-Time Investment Banking Offers. Now What Do You Do?
Or not.
If full-time recruiting season is over and you don’t have any offers, you should be panicking at least a little.
While summer interns who don’t get return offers have a few months to fix the situation, your options are more limited.
But that doesn’t mean you have no chance of getting full-time offers – so here’s what to do.
Worst-Case Scenario
You might think the worst case scenario is not getting a full-time job, but that’s not true – there are two scenarios that are worse:
- Putting yourself in a position where it’s nearly impossible to break into finance in the future.
- Moving into a job that’s difficult to leverage for business school or eventually breaking into finance.
#1 happens most often when you get the brilliant idea to go to business school straight out of undergrad… oops.
#2 is not the end of the world, but you still want to avoid it unless you absolutely, desperately need the income in the short-term.
If those are the 2 worst-case scenarios, then the best-case scenario is simple: whatever maximizes your chances of breaking in without limiting your options or wasting time on things that won’t help you in the long-term.
What Went Wrong?
The next question you need to ask: what went wrong?
There are only 2 reasons why you didn’t win any full-time offers:
1) You didn’t get any interviews / enough interviews.
Your problem was your resume, your networking efforts, or both.
If you’ve been submitting applications online, please stop immediately. It doesn’t work, and you’ll never get a critical mass of interviews like that.
You need to get on the phone ASAP and start talking to real people and then meeting them in-person – if you’re coming from a non-target school and you haven’t done that, you stand a 0.0000000000001% chance of breaking into investment banking.
If you’re at a better-known school, networking is still essential but your resume / lack of solid work experience is more likely the culprit.
Diagnosis: Make sure you’re using this investment banking resume template.
Then, take a look at your resume and your experiences – if you haven’t had impressive-looking internships then you need to get them if you want any chance of getting interviews.
Finally, take an honest look at your networking efforts – have you contacted at least 100 alumni? Cold-called 100 local boutiques? Talked to at least 20 people on the phone and hopefully met most of them in-person?
If not, then you need to put your nose to the grindstone and keep at it until you ninja your way into interviews.
2) You got a lot of interviews but didn’t do well or didn’t connect with the interviewers.
Winning offers from interviews is very, very random.
Yes, knowing the key fit and technical questions is essential, but a lot of people know those – especially in bulge bracket interviews.
You need a “hook” to actually win offers, and unless you’ve had dozens of interviews the “randomness” factor is too high for you to say anything concrete.
Diagnosis: If you didn’t have dozens of interviews, you need to get them (see above). If you did, and you still didn’t get any offers then you need to figure out what went wrong.
The best way to do this: go through a few mock interviews with friends in the industry.
90% of interview problems can be reduced to:
- Your “story”
- You don’t have a good answer for “why investment banking“
- Your enthusiasm is low and you aren’t as polished as other interviewees
The good news is that “fixing” your interview skills takes less time than networking with hundreds of industry contacts and getting more impressive work experience.
But the bad news is that it’s very difficult to “teach” someone how to be more likable, which is what tips the scale in interviews.
How Much Time and Money Do You Have?
Next: how much time and money do you have to fix whatever mistakes you made?
If you didn’t win full-time offers, you need to fix your resume, interview skills, or networking skills, or maybe all of those… but how you do that depends on the resources at your disposal.
First, let’s go through a couple examples of what you shouldn’t do when you don’t have any full-time offers lined up, and then a couple examples of strategies that make more sense.
What NOT To Do
I thought about adding the CFA here just for fun, but I’ll resist the urge to do that – just this once.
1) Business School
It’s a big mistake to go to business school with minimal full-time work experience.
How much do you need?
At least 3-5 years. We basically threw out resumes of Associate candidates who had less experience.
Yes, there are plenty of good reasons to go to business school if you want to use it for something else, but going immediately after undergraduate is a recipe for disaster if you want to get into banking from your program.
And be careful that your work experience is actually “full-time” – a bunch of side projects or travel combined with teaching English and intermittent work won’t stack up to the guy who managed a $1 billion product line for 4 years.
The other big problem with going to business school right after undergrad is that if you don’t get into finance when you’re there, your future chances also drop dramatically.
2) Back Office
For the last time, back office to front office moves – at least for investment banking – are rare and very difficult to pull off.
Yes, it may work slightly better in other fields and some people pull it off successfully, but you need to think about the probability.
What will give you a higher probability of eventually moving to a large bank’s investment banking division – starting in the back office, or going to a boutique first and then making a lateral move?
Please, stop the insanity and go for front office roles at smaller firms rather than “taking what you can get” and making the back office your backup.
3) Normal Job
By “normal” I mean not related to finance at all – marketing, engineering, medicine, etc. Corporate development, wealth management, consulting, and the like don’t qualify.
I would only “settle” for this if you’ve been out of school for months, have networked extensively, are doing all the right things, but still have no offers and you really need income in the short-term.
4) Nothing At All
I’m not referring to whether or not you have something lined up by the time you graduate – I’m talking about what you DO between now and when you graduate.
I had a reader last year who only started her full-time job search 2 months before graduation. Whoops.
No matter what you’re “busy” with, figuring out what you’re doing afterward comes before everything else – so move grades, classes, and activities lower on your priority list.
Possible Plan B’s
Here are 5 viable options. They’re not mutually exclusive, and there’s no “best” option – everything depends on your own situation.
1) Delaying Graduation
“Help! I have no offers. Should I delay my graduation and go for summer internships again this year, then do full-time recruiting before I graduate in December next year?”
It’s most helpful if:
- You got some interviews but had trouble convincing them you could do the work since you didn’t have substantial internships.
- You go to a well-known school that banks recruit at – otherwise it’s a huge gamble to bet on summer internships.
- Your problem was your resume or interview skills, as opposed to your networking efforts.
The main problem: if you’ve had impressive internships, done a lot of interviewing, but simply didn’t make it through any final rounds, then it will come across as an obvious Plan B to anyone interviewing you – and they’ll ask the questions you don’t want to answer.
2) Master’s Program
Another common plan, and also not a bad move. It’s good if:
- You’re using it to move to a better-known school where banks recruit.
- You didn’t do enough networking and need more time and better access to recruiters.
- You could also use some more impressive-looking internships.
This is not the best plan if the main issue was your interview skills – it’s a big commitment just to have another shot at recruiting.
The focus of your program is almost irrelevant beyond being related to finance/business/economics in some way – if you’re trying to re-brand yourself, don’t go for a Master’s Degree in English Literature.
3) Keep At It
This one gets overlooked, probably because it’s not as “exciting” as the other options.
If you keep cold-calling and networking, you’ll eventually get something – the only way to fail is if you give up first. Even if you graduate without a firm plan in place, that’s still better than taking the wrong job.
You should think about this option if:
- You don’t have the resources to delay graduation or to stay in school even longer.
- You have a decent amount of work experience but you lack a good network and need time to build it.
- You don’t mind going for smaller banks at first and then making a lateral move.
If you’re at a non-target school and cannot move elsewhere or stay in school longer, this is your best option: set a target of making 10 calls per day, sending 10 emails per day, and so on, and never take “no” for an answer.
4) Mini-Retirement
I’m referring to my suggestions on what to do with time off before you start working full-time: moving to another country for a few months and doing something interesting.
This one can work but it’s more risky than the others since it puts you out of the game for quite awhile – if you do this for an entire year after graduation, for example, it’s tough to jump back into recruiting.
It’s more viable if you combine this with the other options above – so maybe you apply to grad school, but take 1-2 months in between to go on an adventure.
That way you get a big boost to your networking and interview skills because you appear more interesting, plus you might get some solid leads if you go to a country with a major financial center.
5) Something Leverageable
If all else fails, none of these options is viable, and you can’t afford to spend more time recruiting, then you might have to take what you can get.
But still think about something that can be spun into sounding relevant to finance – corporate finance at a large company, helping governments manage all the financial services companies they now own, or even an economics/business-related fellowship.
Your Plan of Attack
If full-time recruiting season is over and you don’t have any offers, your plan of attack is simple: figure out what went wrong, decide what you’ll do after graduation to give yourself another shot at recruiting, and then spend your time between now and then fixing the mistakes you made.
Now, get to it.
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Tags: alumni network, Back Office, Business School, cold-calling, investment banking, investment banking interviews, investment banking resume, Master's Degree, telling your story, understanding investment banking
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Brian,
To hell with IB, how about you set up another site detailing how to “break into” entrepreneurship ?
I’m getting quite jealous as to how you can travel the world and make a living doing it.
LOL – I’ve thought about it, but most people in school are not interested in doing this.
Just like anything else, it has its ups and downs – it’s not all rosy.
But I may start something next year on this topic…
Similar to Anon’s question but actually kind of serious, is there a website similar to yours about getting into MBA programs? I know that there are other sites out there, but I’m not sure if you know of any sites which have the quality of yours. I’m searching right now, and I still haven’t found any.
Hmm, not too familiar with MBA sites – there’s a lot of information out there but I think a lot of it is “fluffy.” Not sure that there’s anything that has an “edge” to it if that’s what you’re looking for.
Yes Brian, but you have to put in your time somewhere first to add value to many of your entrepreneurship ventures
It’s true that you need some kind of experience first to do it… but the amount you need is greatly overestimated by most.
If you do go into consulting doesnt that help you break into bussiness school than investment banking as a associate?
It does help you with b-school – whether or not it helps more or less than banking is debatable. Very close.
Hi Brian,
I briefly explain my situation.
I’ll earn my degree (MSc in engineering) in December; I completed a 6-month in a regional office of a BB investment bank, which was unable to make me an offer because of headcount’s problems.
I therefore sent more than 50 CVs and I networked with a lot of people, but, although I’ve been not rejected yet, no-one called me for an interview and I suspect I’m out of the competition.
I may have a great advantage…my dad was a “big cheese” investment banker in the 80′-90’s and therefore I may get interviews from almost each BB; the problem is I’m not on good terms with him and therefore I wouldn’t rest with him, but at the same time I would leverage his connections…
Any advice??
Thanks in advance.
Bruno
Hmm, if your relationship with your dad is not great then I would not rely on him and his connections – your best option is to keep at it and focus on local firms now. If you’ve already done that, go beyond banking and think about consulting, PWM, and related fields.
For summer internship offers, when does the general deadline to apply for internships end?
Thanks!
Most banks start interviews for summer internships in December, so deadline is usually before that.
Brian,
I have to do an internship in the spring even though I have a FT offer. As a liberal arts student would it be better to join a CPA firm to become more familiar with accounting or would I be better off to join a PE firm in order to position myself for PE recruiting. I would be happy to know. Thanks.
Definitely PE.
After information sessions, I typically follow up to the bankers through email. However, I usually never receive any response, even when I ask a question. Am I doing something wrong or are they just busy? Can you recommend a sample “template” for followup-related emails? Thanks
There are templates included in the Networking program – it’s hard to say what’s going wrong just from what you said.
After meeting someone at an information session, you should always ask to meet in-person or talk on the phone for a specific purpose, and do so sooner (within 2-3 days max) rather than later. If you just “ask a question” then they may not know that you want interviews with their firm.
How does somebody acquire an internship that banks are looking for during recruiting season? Are they usually set up through the school and you send your resume and interview, or does one have to cold call banks and ask for internships? I am going to a community college for 2 years and was wondering how I could compete with Ivy Leaguers for the more well known internships.
I’m not sure I understand your question, but if you’re going to a community college you need to transfer somewhere else ASAP to have a shot at internships at all. Depending on where you go, you might be able to use on-campus recruiting to get internships, or you might have to do some cold-calling, or both.
If you don’t get an analyst offer, what if you suggested to smaller firms that you’re networking with that you’d be willing to intern and then work full time after they decide if they like you. Is this ‘trial’ period effective? I’m sure it’s also risky because if they say no you’re out of a job a few months after you graduate.
That could be a good strategy – you might want to just propose it as an “internship” at first without framing it like a “trial period.” Even if you don’t end up with an offer, you can still leverage it to get interviews elsewhere so it’s not as risky as you might think.
haha it sounds like the finance ship has sailed for me. I took a crappy corporate job (which I can spin, but you can only do so much), and I managed to get into this early admission program to a top 5 MBA program that requires me to get 2 years of work experience.
But it sounds like my weak work experience + inexperienced MBA tag means I can’t get into traditional finance. Ironically I feel like my background is pretty well suited for entrepreneurship, and I have done some entrepreneurial projects in the past and enjoyed them.
I bought your financial modeling course, if I did another entrepreneurial project, how much do you think the course would backfill some of the skills I would have acquired in banking?
If you’re talking about Harvard 2+2 program that’s not necessarily true… assuming that you can get a solid 2 years of work experience. It all depends on how much you can spin it… bankers and consultants are often fine with only 2 years.
Whether or not you want to start something on your own is a big decision and it’s honestly completely different from finance.
And yes, the course will fill in the gaps – especially if you go through the Yahoo case study, that is 99% of what you actually do in banking.
Awesome thanks. Sounds like in that case you could really market it to two different groups: 1. people who want to get into finance and 2. people who just want the skills but don’t want the grind, or can’t get in =D
That’s definitely true, though I think there are very few in group #2 so haven’t done much there so far.
You mention moving from back office to front office being very difficult, but what about a move from Sales and Trading to IBD? Both would be considered front office, although clearly they serve different purposes at the bank and involve different skillsets / personality types. Does anyone ever do this? Is it easiest to move within the same bank? Do guys in IBD look down on sales and trading people trying to move over, or is it fairly doable?
It’s easier to go from S&T to IBD. You need a solid connection in IBD and a great story / rationale if you want to do it. There’s always some hostility between S&T and IBD, but they don’t look down on each other nearly as much as they look down on back/middle office
Hi Brian, quick question:
I’m a sophomore at an ivy (but it is quite possible I’ll graduate in three years)
I’m not sure if I want to do IBD or S&T. Is it possible to apply to both for SA? or would that look weird?
Also, should I mention somehow that I might graduate in three years? This complicates things because if I’m a sophomore SA I’m obviously not in the running for a full time offer, but I’d like to be
Thanks
Yes you could apply to both – and if you do want to be in the running for an FT offer I would mention the early graduation.
When one applys for a IB position, they apply to a specific group (like M&A), correct?
Incorrect. You apply just to an Investment Banking Summer Analyst, Analyst, or Associate role. Group placement happens either during the interview process or after you accept an offer.
Does one get to choose what group they want to be in?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Varies a lot by bank – sometimes you have no choice and other times you get to select preferences.
Is it after one accepts the offer do they they tell you or let you decide what group to go in? And obviously salary ranges quite a bit from group to group, right?
Thanks for all the helpful input!
Yes. And no, salary does not change that much at the junior level between different groups.
whenever I cold-call VPs, they just say talk to HR or go online. I tell them I will most likely not get any call back and have almost no chance if I apply through their website or HR.
And they say there is nothing much they can help if HR rejects my application.
Any suggestions for my case?
Tell them you understand that, but are interested in speaking to them directly because you know they call the shots with recruiting. Keep in mind that your chances of rejection with cold-calling are VERY high and you have to keep at it – most people will not be helpful / receptive, so it’s a grind until you can get a good answer.
Hi Brian,
would you say it’s easier/better to break into banking through PWM/Corporate development -> MBA or through the law school -> corporate law route if tuition is not a concern.
-Thanks
PWM/Corporate Development -> MBA is easier.
There’s a decent boutique in nyc I like that won’t be recruiting analysts until mid-spring. There’s also a small 6 person shop in nyc that I could probably get an offer at this month. If I accept the small shop offer and then get an offer at the much better boutique, what if I ended up reneging in the spring? Can anything bad come out of this? Examples?
Eh in that situation probably not since it’s a boutique. I would only worry if you renege at a larger bank.
What about taking an Audit position w/ the Big 4 post-MBA and then trying to leverage the accounting experience into investment banking?
It’s hard. See the recent article on this topic. You can do it, but it’s harder than moving in from, say, management consulting.
Hi Brian, I am a senior at a non-target rank 50-100th college, major Econ/Math. I want to work at IB after graduation but got no final interview or offer so far. I have good academic record 3.9+ GPA and lots of activities. The weakness is that I don’t have IB related intern experience. The internship I did was consulting and commercial real estate, and there are not well-known companies. I am also a international student, which means that I need sponsorship to work in US.
I only wish I had found your website earlier. I wasted a lot of time doing online application and worked little on networking and cold-calling. I do have a backup plan, which is getting a fifth year master degree of MSF (Master of Science of Finance) at my college. It’s quality is not very good. But I can have a chance to apply for summer internship at a IB company.
At this point of time, what’s your suggestion on my ongoing job search? Should I give up looking for full-time position and focus on summer intern, or begin networking and cold-calling people? I really don’t want to give up. I am willing to do whatever it takes to get my ideal job.
The Visa issue makes it harder for you – you may want to consider moving back to your own country and looking for finance jobs there. If I were you, I would look for full-time positions and start cold-calling aggressively to see what the response is… if it’s not good, then think about Master’s programs, preferably at a better school, and then leverage that to move in.
Are visa issues more of a problem or less of a problem for FT analyst positions?
More of a problem – easier to get permission to work for 2-3 months vs. 2-3 years.
I’m going to say something that might not be popular….
Maybe, if you didn’t get any investment banking offers, you didn’t get them for a reason:
-You wouldn’t fit well in the investment banking culture
-You think you’re interested in banking but you’re really not
-etc.
The interviewers can usually tell this stuff from when they’re talking to you since they are actually in the industry themselves. So maybe, just maybe, you should put your banking aspirations on hold, at least for now and not let it guide your entire life.
Don’t get me wrong – I’m all about not giving up, learning from failure, etc. and I don’t work in IB, despite several final round interviews last year. When I was interviewing, I thought banking was all that I wanted to do in my post-college life. But now, I’ve started a great job doing something else and can’t fathom how I could have wanted to work 100 hour weeks including weekends, when I hate working 60-70 hour weeks now and cherish the social life I have. In hindsight, I’m actually somewhat glad I didn’t get any offers and realize that it probably worked out for the best for me and my life for right now. If banking is something I decide I want to do later on again, so be it, I’ll give it another shot.
But have some fun with your life and don’t let your aspirations to be a first year investment banker keeping you up at night worrying about potential technical questions you may get in an interview (yes, it’s happened to me). Just like there is more than one way to skin a cat, there’s more than one way to be successful, work in PE/HF/etc, or do whatever you “think” is going to make you happy down the line.
Agreed, but anyone looking for information about finance online is going to be VERY determined to get in no matter what
Hey,
I’m in a bit of an annoying situation at the moment. If you could help me out I would really appreciate it.
I’m a UK student. I just graduated this year with a good degree in economics from a top university. However I graduated without having a full time investment banking job lined up. Last summer I did an IBD internship at a top bulge bracket bank (I didn’t get an offer at the end although my performance was good) and another finance related (but not banking) internship this summer. I am determined to get into investment banking (M&A). I have made many full time applications but have not got as many interviews as I was hoping to get (without meaning to sound arrogant with my background I would have expected to get more interviews). If I do not end up with a full time offer which is looking increasingly likely I plan to do a masters next year and reapply again. In the meanwhile (before my masters starts in fall next year) I plan to network extensively to try and secure a banking internship somewhere for next summer before my masters starts. I also plan to travel early next year. Does this sound like a good plan? The masters would be a masters in accounting and finance at another top uni. However as I already have a degree from a top uni how much value will this masters actually add? It’s very expensive and I’m wondering whether it will be worthwhile. However I can’t spend another year not studying or working (I’m only using it as a back up just in case I don’t get a full time job).
Apologies for the length of this post. If you need any clarification I’d be happy to elaborate.
Many thanks.
I think it sounds like a good plan. The Masters degree will not add that much value, but it will give you more time to network which is arguably more important.
Thoughts/opinions on moving to IB from equity research? Is it leverageable at all, or just a slight step-up from back office? How would you spin the story of why you are in ER but you really want IBD?
Say you want to work on transactions and advising companies as opposed to just following the markets. You can definitely do this, but you need to have a solid connection in IBD to make the move.
So what do I say when they ask why I went into research to begin with? Truthfully I took what I could get (I graduated in May when offers were nowhere to be found), but of course I cannot say that.
Say that at the time you thought it would involve more “creative” work and original thought, but realized that wasn’t the case at all – and that your work would be more impactful in IB.
I’m a recent graduate doing doing a 3 month internship (no prior ibanking experience) with a BB right now. Please don’t ask me how I got this opportunity, just lucky. There are a lot of internal opportunities and I’m looking to apply very soon but I want to be very prepared for interviews. Do you have any idea how these interviews will be different, if at all?
The specific position I’m looking at right now lies within a team in the same department I’m currently working for. As an added bonus, I’ve already met a few guys on the team who asked me if I was interested. Anything you would suggest?
The interviews shouldn’t be that much different if you’ve only had a 3-month internship – I’d expect the usual fit and technical questions. Make sure you can back up why you want to move into a division with specific stories / people you’ve spoken with.