by Brian DeChesare Comments (156)

Why You Weren’t Selected for That Interview at JP Morgan

interview selection random cover

It’s a question I’ve been getting a lot lately.

“Why didn’t I get an interview at Morgan Stanley New York?”

“Why was my friend selected for JP Morgan Houston but I was not?”

“Why did I get an interview at CS Hong Kong even though my resume had a typo in it?”

Interview selection at individual banks is incredibly random, and you never know what someone’s biases will be.

Yes, if you “bankify” your resume and avoid common resume mistakes, you have a higher probability of getting an interview. But that doesn’t mean you’ll actually get one – and sometimes even if your resume is awful, you might still get an interview.

Example #1: A Real-Life Jack Bauer

Once, we were sitting around reviewing resumes and someone stumbled across a guy who had served in the military (in a country where it was a requirement).

Alone, that wouldn’t be too impressive – but this guy had served in several well-known battlefields and listed them all on his resume.

One of the bankers in the room was also ex-military so this immediately jumped out at him – and even though this guy had 0 finance experience and his resume was marginal at best, he still got an interview on the recommendation of the ex-military banker.

If you know how to commandeer vehicles, pitch books should be easy, right?

Example #2: My Disagreeable Roommate

We had just received a resume from one of my former roommates. He was transitioning from wealth management to investment banking, and he had all the elements of a successful resume.

I took one look at it and told everyone in the room we shouldn’t interview him.

As roommates, we got into arguments over the smallest issues and there was no way I could ever see myself or anyone else working long hours with him.

You could argue that living with someone is different from working with him, but in banking you basically live with your co-workers.

Example #3: That (Fake?) Private Equity Internship

One time we saw a lot of applicants from one school had all “interned” at the same “private equity” firm. Normally we only spent 30 seconds per resume and never did any outside research, but seeing 5-10 people all with internships at one place raised some eyebrows.

None of us had heard of this firm, so it was either fake or another J.T. Marlin.

We did some digging online and found that it was real – but it was also inaccurate to label it “private equity.” It was more of a “Well, my rich uncle just gave us $5 million to invest so let’s look at some cool startups in the area” type of place.

We did not give an interview to anyone who claimed they “worked on LBOs.”

Example #4: The Failed Fraternity Guy

One guy who had some solid experience and a few banking internships had just submitted his resume.

When we were reviewing it, someone else in the room recognized him – it turned out this same guy had (unsuccessfully) rushed his fraternity a few years back. In fact, it was more than unsuccessful – everyone hated him and wanted nothing to do with him in the aftermath.

There were also suspicions of illegal activities on his part (use your imagination). Deciding that the risk was not worth it, we did not give him an interview.

Example #5: The Guy Who Wouldn’t Take “No” for an Answer

This one appeared in the comments the other day but it was in an article from over a year ago, so I felt it would be worth highlighting here:

“My situation was very bad…I had no prior work experience (neither industrial nor financial), I had no student exchange programs (highly rated in Europe), I had no stellar grades…BUT I had a genuine and strong interest for IB.”

Ok, so far you have an uphill battle…

“I wrote a full-of-passion investment banking cover letter, and they called me for the 1st round; my motivation impressed the Associates I talked with and after two weeks I was called for the 2nd round (a business case followed by a discussion with a VP, and a traditional interview with a Director).

The day after they offered me the job, although other candidates had better resumes (prior Internships in Bulge Brackets!).”

Nothing is impossible.

So What Can You Do About It?

If the recruiting process is so random and you get accepted or rejected for reasons beyond your control, what can you actually do about it?

  1. Spread your net wide. A great resume is only effective if you apply everywhere, from the tiniest boutique to Goldman Sachs.
  2. Play nice with others. Finance is a small world, and someone not liking you elsewhere often comes back to haunt you here.
  3. Don’t be afraid to be interesting – random facts can help you quite a bit (but please, don’t do a video resume, at least not in finance).
  4. Oh yeah, you still need to have a good resume anyway. Luck won’t help you everywhere, even if you are a real-life Jack Bauer.
M&I - Brian

About the Author

Brian DeChesare is the Founder of Mergers & Inquisitions and Breaking Into Wall Street. In his spare time, he enjoys memorizing obscure Excel functions, editing resumes, obsessing over TV shows, traveling like a drug dealer, and defeating Sauron.

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  1. Avatar

    Hi Brian,

    So I’m from the southern hemisphere where our summer is December-February. I’ve been cold-emailing pretty much all the boutique ibs in my city and have finally had one reach back to me. After a string of emails, he told me that he may have a transaction for me to work on and that he is currently waiting on the client to sign his mandate noting that I should email him back again towards the end of November (week before summer starts).

    Is this something I should be concerned with? I Intend on following up around Nov 15 and again ~ Nov 25 if there has been no update.

    Not sure if I should continue pursing and contacting with other boutique firms? Would I address my situation to those boutiques

    1. It sounds potentially promising, but I would still recommend continuing to contact and follow-up with other banks because boutiques are unpredictable and don’t necessarily have steady work / job openings.

  2. JP Morgan introduced Pymetrics, neuropsychology based online games, to it’s recruitment process. It is different than the typical numerical/verbal online tests you get. And apparently they eliminate people who don’t match their standards. I guess the traditional networking ninja won’t be efficient anymore.

    1. Those tests don’t change much. They’re just something else you have to go through, and there’s no telling if banks will even keep using them. To win interviews and eventually offers, you still need to network by speaking with humans and win interviews by meeting with humans… they’re never going to award job offers based on the results of an online game.

      These efforts are cost-cutting measures, nothing more. Banks want to save money and make recruiting cheaper by de-humanizing the process.

  3. So apparently, I’m overqualified for starting positions. What do I do next?

    1. I need more information to answer that question. Overqualified as in…? What university did you attend, what were your grades, and what’s your internship and work experience like? Your alumni network? How many years out of school are you?

  4. Hi Brian / Nicole,

    This is my first comment, thanks for all the great articles here. I’m Chinese and have been working in DCM & Sales department at a Chinese securities firm for 3 years.

    I’m very interested in one JPM China DCM opportunity and have applied on the recruitment website 10 days ago. Got nothing after the confirm email and the “joined talent network” email. The job was posted on early March so I’m not sure if there are already tons of applications before me. I had an internal refer from middle office, and I heard from the guy that JPM’s JV was still in early stage in China, so they’re recruiting ED/MDs, after which will be junior candidates. I also cold-emailed the group head, asked if there’s still headcounts and the recruitment process 1 week ago, and a follow-up yesterday since there’s no reply.

    To make it more complicate, just 3 days after my application, I found an MD move from UBS China to JPM China to be the Equities group head, from Linkedin notice. Guess what: He’s the boss who interviewed me for UBS summer intern 4 years ago, and after what I thought a nice & steady interview, I got dinged. (Truly regret not seeing this website that time.)

    Should I say hello to the MD who just moved in and ask about the recruting process (hesitate cause it may bring his bad impression on me)? Or should I just wait and continue following up the email? I would truly appreciate about any advice.

    1. Yes, definitely follow up with the MD to ask about it. You have nothing to lose. If it happened 4 years ago, he may not even remember all the details, given that bankers interview dozens of candidates (or more) each year. It would have helped if you had followed up with him periodically in between, but you might as well reach out now.

      1. Hi Brian, I mailed the MD but he wasn’t on my target group so he helped me to find an relevant HR. I got reply from the HR that this position was actually hiring VP level and they somehow didn’t mention that on the website. Of course my 3 year experience is far less than enough.

        I replied that I’ll continue improving my skill set and visit the website regularly, hope there will be junior roles later.

        Anyway, thanks a lot for your advices, hope this site will get better. BTW, I’ll defenitely buy your program if there’s an interview.

        1. Sure, glad to hear it. Good luck!

  5. Thanks to your help, I have been able to receive an IB internship at a BB for next summer and I am now doing a lot of networking for spring group placements.

    Since I am new to networking and I am networking this early, do you have any advice on how to most effectively follow-up with bankers after 2 – 3 months because I feel like I run out of good group related questions from my first phone call with them and I don’t want to over do it. But I do want them to remember me.

    Any advice would be much appreciated.

    1. You don’t need to contact them that frequently. Just send whatever questions you have, and then contact them again right before the Sell Day or whatever they use to assign groups. If you’ve won an offer there and you ask good questions, they will remember you.

  6. Dear Brian,

    I have applied for some of the Bulge brackets 2 weeks ago, namely JPM and BAML. I wonder: how long will the banks take from applications received to sending out interview/test offers? I am pretty worried about whether I have been screened out during the process….

    FYI, I am from APAC region and have a GPA slightly lower than 3.6 with relevant banking background.
    Thanks in advance!

    1. It varies based on the year and region… follow up if you haven’t heard back in another week or so, or, better yet, reach out to your contacts at the banks and ask if they know how the process works or have any updates.

  7. I am a little confused on how to market myself, or how to explain my grade level in interviews. I currently am a sophomore student according to the school, but it’s my 3rd year (4 credits shy of being a junior). I could easily take add one credit hour per semester to graduate on time, but my school told me to still label myself as a sophomore. Because of this, am I only allowed to apply for sophomore specific programs? Or would it be beneficial to do the extra semester? No one in my school has the slightest clue about IB.

    1. If you haven’t had previous finance internships, call yourself a sophomore and start networking/applying for internships ASAP. Actually, even if you have had previous internships, you should probably still do that because recruiting for summer roles now starts insanely early, and many banks have already finished their 2018 summer processes almost a year in advance.

  8. Hi,

    I was wondering if I could get advice on next steps. I have networked at a bulge bracket, applied the day the applications opened up and informed my network (MD and a Partner) that I applied. They said they would forward my resume to HR and recommend me for an interview. It has been over a month since I applied and still no first round (HireVue). Do you have any advice as to what I could do to make sure my resume was not lost in the pile? I come from a non-target school.

    1. Follow up, follow up, follow up, follow up…. networking is almost 100% about following up repeatedly. You should have done this when you didn’t hear back after a week.

  9. Hi!!!
    Im currently finishing my masters in economics and still choosing whether to do a second masters in information science for business or a second master in finance and investment. The thing is, even though I studied economics i seriously lack knowledge on finance and investment ..basically no knowledge at all..and im wonderng whether i could get a job in investment banking without a finance master? (then I can pick the ICT master as a sort of back up plan)

    Thank you so so much for your time!

    1. You should do the degree in finance and investment if you have no knowledge of it. You might be able to get an IB job without that degree, but not without the knowledge.

  10. Hey Brian,

    I am a sophomore with a GPA of around 3.6 from a top public school (the business school within the school), think UMich, UVA, UT, UBerkeley. I do a fair amount of networking and have made some pretty good relationships with people at EB’s and some BB’s as well. I am also involved on campus and have some good leadership roles. I am worried about recruiting because I know that many of my peers have much higher GPA’s than I do, ranging from 3.7-4.0. Will people pass over me because of my GPA or is the networking still useful? I’m worried I’m wasting time and money doing networking trips and the like.


    1. A 3.6 is good enough. At that stage, networking is still useful and necessary and matters more than a slightly better GPA.

  11. Avatar
    Wonu Temowo

    Hi Nicole / Brian,

    I need your help! I have no experience in the banking industry but I am interested in being an Operations Analyst at a bank or a management consultant.

    I have tried applying to companies such as Goldman Sachs, McKinsey and EY and have not gotten past the CV submission stage.
    I am a Mechanical Engineering graduate and a current MSc Operations, Project and Supply Chain Management student at the University of Manchester.

    Do you think i do not have a chance at all and quit applying to such firms? or there is something I am consistently doing wrong.

    Thank you.

    1. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      We don’t specialise in operations or consulting so I am not 100% sure if we can give you the best advice here. Seems like you have some relevant experience at school, but I think most companies are more interested in work experience so if you can demonstrate that you’ve had some operations/consulting experience (even if they are case studies) that would be useful. I’d also suggest that you visit for more details.

      1. Thank you for your response. How do I include the experience from case studies in a CV for example? Or is it something that should can be reflected/explained in a cover letter alone?

        1. Avatar
          M&I - Nicole

          Just list what you did/analysed on the case study under “CASE STUDIES”, and talk about the valuation methods you’ve used. Best to include this in your CV vs. CL.

  12. Hi, I have a doubt.
    I’m in an Italian business school, and I don’t understand what is the ”minimum” GPA to get into investment banking.
    Here grades are out of 30, so do you think that 27/30 is enough ?
    Or 28-29/30 is the rule? Do you know some bankers from Italy experience.
    I’m sorry for my english,I hope you will answer. :D

    1. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      I’d say 28-29 though I’d speak with bankers in your country to confirm the number.

  13. Hi Brian,

    I love the site––it’s been very helpful. I haven’t found an article on what to do after you are chosen as an “alternate for offer.” Is there anyway to boost your chances after that happens? I just had my final round interviews for my top choice bank this summer, and the first few interviews went great, however the last one was mediocre (but not terrible by any means). Overall, I thought the day went fantastic and I was very optimistic after the fact. But I just got notified that I was selected as an “alternate.” What do you feel the odds are in this case? Any advice on what I can do now (if anything)? I thought about sending another email to the head interviewer reiterating my interest in the position, but I don’t want to annoy them or sound desperate. This is definitely my top choice though, so I want to do everything I can.


    1. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      Odds: 50/50…I don’t think you can do much because they’ve probably extended the offer to another candidate and waiting for him/her to respond (I maybe wrong). Yes sending an email can help you, though I wouldn’t be too stressed about it. If you have any new developments etc you can keep them posted. Otherwise, I’d wait and continue networking. Seems like you’ve done your best and given your all so I’d pat yourself on the back, relax and see how it goes.

  14. HELP!

    Hi Nicole / Brian,

    My posts are below. They threw a bomb at me today and have scheduled the interview on Monday @ 6 pm.

    All my planning is useless now. I don’t even know if the interview will be for ibd, equity research or credit analysis. They will tell me in a few mins. Chances are it’ll be for a coverage group if it’s ibd or credit analysis. Sadly, I never followed an industry.

    I would deeply appreciate advice on how I should use this period to prepare, and any SOS advice. How should I convey that I was just about to begin industry research?

    Thanks for your time.

    1. The interview is for fund accounting. All the members of the group are chartered accountants. I’m depressed because it’s not ibd at all. In your advice, is there a way from MO accounting to FO ibd?
      Thanks, I appreciate your time.

      1. Fund accounting is a little related to FP&A.

        I’m thoroughly depressed as I have successfully made a mess out of my career.

        You guys were very helpful throughout and I consider this website the best resource of all. Sadly, the ib dream is over for me.
        All the best.

      2. Avatar
        M&I - Nicole

        I personally would be thankful for the opportunity to interview with the firm. Even if it isn’t IBD, the role may gave you the opportunity to meet people and practice your interviewing skills. You can always transfer internally – This is only one interview; you can always interview for other IB roles after this one.

        1. Thank you so much, Nicole! Once again, i am astonished by the helpfulness displayed by M&I / BIWS. thank you for changing my outlook. I will continue to strive for IBD, and will use the biws guides and course to achieve my goal. Have a great weekend.

          1. Avatar
            M&I - Nicole

            You too.

    2. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      Congratulations! This is exciting! I’d focus on your pitch, your background and be able to articulate your skills, your value-add as well as what you’re planning to do in the future. It would be useful to know which group it is for, but if you don’t, you’ll just have to tailor your pitch for a generic purpose. If you have subscribed to our Interview Guide, you may want to go through the fit questions.

  15. Hi Brian / Nicole,

    I would deeply appreciate your advice on the below:

    I have an IB analyst interview, that may be scheduled sometime mid feb 2014. I’m a 2nd year analyst in operations with some BO experience at a BB and have read some CFA L1 material.

    As you can guess, this is an opportunity of a lifetime for me. I got it because I topped in an in-house equity training course at my BB covering valuation and modeling apart from correctly answering a lot of the questions they asked us (they never thought any of us would have a clue). Also, I networked like hell. Still, the course was basic and I’m going to buy BIWS to learn modeling.

    I would deeply appreciate any advice on how to prepare and use this two month period to prepare.

    Your advice can make my life.

      1. Avatar
        BO Analyst

        Thank you, Nicole!

        I have made up my mind to buy the BIWS premium. Would you be able to advice a book or resource that would help me master accounting before I begin financial modeling training. I am studying the CFA L1 book for accounting called Financial reporting & analysis. Please advise. Thank you.

        1. Avatar
          M&I - Nicole

          Thanks for your follow-up! You don’t actually need to go through any additional courses before commencing our courses. If you are going through our Fundamentals course, we’ll go through all you need to know to start and the materials are designed for students who have had limited modeling experience. With the above being said, if you really want to go through another book, I’d suggest though it can be pretty intensive and a lot of materials to go through.

          1. Avatar
            BO Analyst

            I appreciate your prompt response. I have this book and will go through it if you suggest.

            However, I was looking for a reference/book on accounting rather than valuation because the interview I had 6 months back was veering towards accounting.

            So, based on your response, my rephrased question is: would you say that CFA L1 financial reporting and analysis would be good enough foundation for beginning financial modeling using the BIWS course or would you advise another text?

            I am sorry if I sound repetitive. I just don’t want to lose a single day and I will use my weekend to study based on your advice.

          2. Avatar
            M&I - Nicole

            Your hard work is commendable! I think the CFA Level 1 materials are sufficient. Otherwise, you may be overloading yourself with information. As I’ve said earlier, you can just commence the BIWS course without additional materials. Please head over to our BIWS forum once you’ve signed up for our courses. We look forward to seeing you there!

          3. Avatar
            bo analyst / soon to be customer

            I was expecting your reply by Monday because the weekend had begun, and am astonished by the quickness of your response. It speaks about BIWS / M&I’s commitment. Thank you for saving 1 day of my prep :)
            I’ll purchase the course on the 18th of jan, and will definitely express my gratitude again at that time.
            Have a great weekend!

          4. Avatar
            M&I - Nicole

            No worries. Let us know if you have any questions and we look forward to seeing you in our BIWS community.

  16. I was selected as an alternate for an interview with Citi. I had been planning to go to NY to try and network. Is this still worth my time/money knowing I may not have an interview?

    1. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      If you land an offer, your trip cost will be insignificant. The upside is $80K+. The downside is your plane ticket price. I’d leave you to determine whether it is worth it or not.

  17. Who did you write out your cover letter to? Is the hiring manager the same for all internship positions? What is the email of the person who is in charge of the JP Morgan internships? I am having a difficult time finding this information! Please help!!

    1. I’m not sure which comment you’re replying to there – you generally write the cover letter to HR but it varies by bank. Internships – it’s a different person in each office/group so you can’t just look it up and write to the same person for everything.

  18. Hello,

    I am an overseas student studying in the UK at the moment. Last year when I was applying for spring internships was the first time I read this article. I really found it informative and encouraging. This time, I am applying for summer internships, I checked it out again and found myself struggling with applying for EVERYWHERE.
    I am from a non-target (or semi-target probably. My business school have ranked 20+ in the UK but ridiculously 30+ in the world) with a grade only above minimum requirement of bulge bracket and other big boys. Although it doesnt count towards my final grade, I believe it matters a lot. I got 3 banking work experience, one summer internship, 1 work experience, and 1 part time job.
    I found myself in a situation where I keep applying for back office thinking it’d be easier to get in. Finally a fresh rejection letter from Finance Division of JP Morgan arrived today.
    I have no previous trading/IBD/M&A/investment fund experience whatsoever and my knowledge in these areas is not solid enough to get a summer internship I guess. While you mentioned motivation in this article, I would doubt that it all comes down to knowledge you show in these business areas? Should I stop applying for back office and concentrate on applications for front office all though I may not get a chance?


  19. Hi, this site has been very useful to me (I got shortlisted for exclusive recruiting events by bulge brackets, not interviews though, thanks to learning how to bankify my resume and cover letter!)

    Recruiting season is upon us and it is time to begin submitting applications for summer internships. A number of people around have given me conflicting views, so my questions are these:

    In the context of summer internships,

    If I applied to Bank A this year, but failed, would it jeopardize my application to Bank B next year?

    If Bank A gave me an offer but I have not accepted, would it jeopardize my chances at Bank A next year if I turned Bank A’s offer down (not reneging!) and joined Bank B instead?

    If Bank A gave me an offer while my other interviews at Bank B, C, D are still ongoing, would it affect my chances with Bank B, C, D in the future if I dropped the interviews with them on basis of accepting Bank A’s offer?

    And finally, the most important question:

    Should I
    1) Apply to all the banks out there indiscriminately in the hope of landing an offer (fishing net principle)? This runs with the assumption that rejection previously will not hurt my chances next year.
    2) Apply to 50% of the banks out there, in the event that if re-application does jeopardizes my future chances, it makes sense to just try for half the banks. In the event that I fail, I would go into a less prestigious role, like CorpFin at a Big 4, or other finance-related roles, then next year try for the other 50% banks that I didn’t apply for with my upgraded resume.

    1. I forgot to add some assumptions in my background:

      1) My graduation time is halfway in an academic year, such that even though this year is my “penultimate year”, I have 2 chances at summer internships, year 3 and year 4. If banks begin recruiting according to academic calender, this also means an extra semester of freedom after graduation, which can be used for 6-month internships/industrial attachments if needed.
      2) For internships, I had a small role in a Big 4 in Year 1, and an Asset Management position in a famous/well-known large company in Year 2. From my Year 1 networking I can guarantee a Corp Fin position in that Big 4 firm.
      3) Thus my questions are mostly regarding not just my chances for this Year 3 summer internship, but also for a Year 4 internship.

    2. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      Glad you find the site useful.

      If you’re applying to the same group, this may happen (though not likely) unless you can explain why you prefer to join Bank A after.

      No, I don’t think it will. I’d still apply to all banks. If you end up getting multiple offers, you can then worry about it the above. I wouldn’t worry too much about it otherwise.

      1. Alright thank you for your help. I’ll spread my net wide in this case :)

        1. Avatar
          M&I - Nicole


  20. Avatar

    This is great and inspiring. I’m a current MBA student with a concentration in Financial and Banking Institutions at a non-target school. A management sales background with marketing and NO finance experience. I’m about of organizations with a 3.6 GPA however and will more likely be graduating Magna Cum Laude. I’m interviewing for a Financial Services Consulting position to get more finance experience on my resume and hoping to land a Summer Associate Internship next year. Thanks for this!

    1. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      Thanks for your input!

  21. Great article. I have some questions and I would appreciate if you can answer. Here’s my story:
    I graduated from a locally well known business school (not a target school) with a major in economics and with a 3.4 GPA. Ofcouse back then, I knew nothing about investment banking so I worked for 3 years now at a well known regional retail company in the MEAN region as a financial analyst while I was studying for the CFA. A year ago I decided to break into investment banking and I failed so far to get any interview as all investment banks in the GCC require top tier schools and IB experience. 2 weeks ago I decided to resign and focus on studying for level 3 believing this would do it for me. I was really sad when I read ur cfa article and now I am trying to figure out another plan. Do u think I should apply for an MBA or masters? Or I should give it a try after I hopefully get the level 3 and then go for an MBA with some experience in IB?

  22. Hi Brian, thank you for the article. I have few questions and want to hear from you: I applied for summer program at JP Morgan and will do so again this year. I go to a small liberal arts college with Accounting and Economics background, I have a GPA of 3.7 and work experience as a taxsupport and accounting. I am a junior in college. Do you think I have a decent chance with my background, given the fact that I go to a small school in Iowa? Also, I am traveling 4 hours to attend a networking event hosted by JPM in couple of weeks time, do you think mentioning that I traveled nearly 4 hours to be at the event would be worth telling?

    1. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      Haha, maybe though I don’t think it will make a big difference. Good on you for traveling 4 hours though!

  23. I’m a veteran Marine of 9 years with 3 years in military finance (teaching finance to military members, 1-on-1 counseling, budgeting, investment advising). I have an MBA (3.92/4.0 GPA) from Webster University and will finish an MS in Finance in March, 2013. I’m looking into investment banking for my finance career, hopefully in Atlanta, and was hoping you would have some suggestions for me. Should I highlight my military experience, education, civilian finance experience, etc? Do I even stand a chance against Ivy-league grads? Any suggested firms in the Atlanta area?

    Thanks in advance for any help you can provide, I appreciate it.

  24. Hi, I just got out of High School with a 3.7 gpa. I got accepted into UC Berkeley Haas. Do you think an Big investment bank like Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan recruits there.

    Thanks. Enrique

  25. Avatar

    I am currently a sophomore looking to get into investment banking. I wasn’t able to get an investment banking internship for the summer (do they recruit sophomores?) so I am instead doing a 12 week internship/leadership program at Discover Financial. My question is, will investment bankers think less of me/am i at a disadvantage when they assess my resume come junior year because I interned at a commercial bank instead of an investment bank?

    1. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      I’ve responded to your question already. Please only post the same question once on our website.

  26. Hi Brian,

    I was at BarCap internship superday on 19th Jan. I applied to HK office first but due to personal reasons I told them I would want to change to Singapore. On that day, I interviewed fine but did not receive any call (all the 8 interviewers were from HK office.) Yesterday I received a phone interview from an MD at Singapore office. I felt I interviewed fine. He asked me if I would want to do DCM instead of M&A and I said yes. He didn’t give me a positive reply but asked me to wait for HR and said if I were accepted it would be quick. I wonder how long shall I wait to contact the HR if I don’t hear from them?

    Thank you so much!

    1. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      Wait for a few days. Contact him if you don’t hear by end of next week unless you have another offer you need to respond to

  27. Avatar
    Stan Johnson

    What would you say is a good ratio of getting interviews/getting declined for interviews on a summer internship application?

    1. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      It really depends on the candidate. I can’t say.

  28. sir i didnt qualify written test 1st round

  29. I have a question for which I’ve scoured this site and haven’t found an answer. I just turned 26 and have 2 years of retail banking experience, which I imagine is looked upon as lowly by all the other divisions of banking. I could be wrong, of course. I am a personal banker, which at my company is a very intense sales position. I excel at it and I honestly like it, but I am a little uneasy about the fact that I’m schmoozing any old person off the street to open a checking account. It’s not exactly high finance. I have been taking night classes to get my MS in Finance from Kelley in Indiana and will graduate in a few months. My options are to leverage the degree to get into IB or IM or something similarly hardcore, or stick it out in this position and hope they promote me eventually. I imagine if I chose the latter option I would only see the benefit of the grad degree after decades, if ever. But I could be wrong. If I stick it out in retail banking, my options are to become a business banker, financial advisor, mortgage loan officer, or branch manager. I may also be able to go be a private banker in our PWM division, though competition is fierce. Currently I make $55k per year working no more than 40 hours per week in a cheap town in the Midwest. I’m scared that if I move to a big city and double my hours to do IB or something similar, my life will suck and I’ll gain only a little more money. Is my current career path a trap? Should I jump ship and go to wall street because things are that much better? I love my coworkers but it irks me that I’m on the same playing field as people who were waiters and mall employees months ago.

    1. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      Why don’t you try networking and see what’s out there? I think you are thinking a bit too much. Once you actually get an offer elsewhere you can think more about the above

  30. Hello,

    Just received a rejection email for a MM Boutique, just going over the reasons why I got rejected, they said they are not looking for any interns at the moment, I did (break one of your rules) and say I would intern for free – slightly frustrated with the lack of responses from other banks, but they got back to me straight away and one of the partners i emailed referred me to one of the other partners in the firm (so he may like what I sent)

    Just thinking what I could possibly respond saying…

    Is it worth asking what time of year they are looking for interns?
    If no reply do you recommend emailing them in a month or so asking again?
    Would you suggest emailing them asking if they know any MM firms in the area that maybe hiring interns?

    I was quite pleased they emailed back and were so polite, so don’t want to sound too pushy because they seemed very approachable and maybe useful later on.

    Another side question, I’ve emailed a couple of other Boutiques and not had a response and would like to call them, do you have a post suggesting some bullet points what to say in a cold call?

    Thanks, Matt

    1. Avatar
      M&I - Nicole

      1. Perhaps though I don’t know if they could really answer you because needs change.
      2. Sure
      3. Yes

  31. I am in 9th grade. It looks like for the first semester, my GPA will be around 3.4-3.5. If I want to become a banker, will this GPA ruin my chances. Do I need to aim for a higher GPA next semester?

    1. Um if you’re in high school you should really not be worried about this, focus on getting into a top university

  32. Presidential debates are tailor made for highlighting the processes that today’s young professionals face in job interviewing, however bizarre the outcome. With modern barriers ever so much higher, and hypotheticals a regular part of the process, why should Presidential debates be different?

    This is true, particularly, where once elected, they do none of the things promised; testing leadership skills under stress has always been a favored debate format.

  33. Hey M&I!

    I was recently playing poker at a casino and met a VP of a boutique at my table. I had a hard time deciding whether to take chips from him or to lose on purpose. But, anyways I was able to get his business card. I was wondering if I should still email him a cover letter along with my resume, although I got acquainted with him in person.


    1. Sure that’s fine but you probably want to propose talking more in-person or on the phone first before sending a CL and resume

  34. Avatar
    vinay kumar

    my name is vinay kumar i was selected for all 6 rounds in jp morgon chase in bangalore city were the co., hr told me there will be an hr round, we will call you after 10 days…….but, didn’t get any call from the co., for 20 days
    what do you suggest for this?

    1. Um, call back and follow-up aggressively…

  35. Just a word of advice for people that did not get accepted to any formal summer training positions, like myself (I had a bad GPA, but solid work experience).

    I was lucky to get a Spring internship at a well-known boutique, it was unpaid but I decided to stick with it since it was better than doing nothing. My work ethic carried me a long way to where I am right now. Eventually, my manager realized that my skills could be used better in asset management, a separate division within the company. He took a big risk referring me to a separate office where I could have destroyed his credibility if I screwed up.

    My Spring internship was set to expire in May but the day before I was about to leave, they called me in. The firm decided to employ me part-time (paid) during the summer and will continue up until my graduation date. After graduation, they will have a nice compensation package for me. This was such a wild turn of unexpected events, but if you work hard, people notice and it will come back to you.

    You can do the same if you believe in yourself and your abilities. If you walk into an interview remember, you are a nub. Be humble.

  36. Hello I am currently a soon to be junior in college but did very poorly in my first year and a half of college. It was a result of my focus on becoming a professional soccer player which I managed to do but was deterred from after I ran into many ethically conflicting decisions. I have now improved to a 4.0 student but I attend a small university. With a major in accounting and economics minor in finance, and currently president of a small company and an investment club, what kind of chances can I expect of earning an internship to help me break into investment banking?

    1. Depends what your cumulative GPA is, how much networking you’ve done, work experience, etc. – if those are good you still have a chance.

  37. Hey M&I

    Thank you for the interesting informations you’ve given us. Wanted to ask two smalls questions. I just started University in St. Gallen (one of the best for german speakers) and had some good grades for the 1st semester. My CV is solid, some banking experience (in small bank). Have seen there are still some BB recruiting for those loved summer internships and was wondering if, as a starter, I had any chance to get to an interview or if being in the penultimate year is a must?

    And if I do apply and get rejected would I sound like a desperate guy if I’d apply the next year again?

    And last question, do you think foreign people applications are truly considered or is it negative to apply for another country for summer internships? (example for me as a swiss to do the internship in London)

    Thank you very much for your help!


    1. In Europe it’s a bit different and spring programs / school-year internships are more common but generally they still want older students or at least those in their 2nd year and beyond. Don’t worry about getting rejected. London is probably 90% foreigners so it’s fine – in the US it is much harder to come in as a foreigner and work due to the visa situation and government.

  38. Just wondering, but have you ever scanned through resumes from NYU Stern (undergraduates)? Based on your experiences is NYU Stern a target or a semi-target school?

    Furthermore, resumes from Stern will mostly be composed of finance and more finance experience. How would one stand out from 550 other students all aiming for similar internships?

    1. Haven’t looked at NYU resumes (only west coast) so can’t comment on that.

  39. Avatar
    George Hillman

    Hello M&I,

    I wanted to know if it is proper or annoying for me to e-mail the people who interviewed me and ask them for feedback on how well I did on the interview after I got rejected.

    1. You can do that, just don’t email everyone you spoke to or it may be annoying.

  40. Last week, I actually someone at a BB reached out to me (it was pretty much like an interview). At the end of our conversation he told me that the process would be moving quickly and that he would get someone else in the office to reach out to me this week. A week later, there was still no response, so I emailed an alum I know within the BB for help. He told me that he would check to see what the firm was up to, and later told me to wait. That was around 3 days ago, and I still have had no response from the firm. Should I shoot the person who I spoke to an email, or would that be pushy/annoying and should I just continue to wait?

    1. I would just call him directly. Most likely you’ve been wait-listed.

  41. I’m currently a junior at a target school going through recruiting. Invites to first-round interviews have recently come out, and I’ve received offers to a few elite boutiques I applied to (Blackstone, Evercore, Moelis etc) but none of the BBs. By way of background – I have previous BB IBD experience, my GPA and extracurriculars are solid, and I’ve been networking with these other BBs at info sessions.

    My question is what factors might have prevented me from getting first-round invites (not following up enough? not making a strong impression during networking?) and how I can try to improve going forward in the recruiting process with the other firms. I thought first-round invites were mostly based on resume but was wondering what advice you might have.


    1. That sounds really strange because those boutiques are just as selective as large banks. Might just be completely random, or it might be not enough networking with the people in the offices you applied to. I would just go for one of the boutiques and then try again for BBs in the fall recruiting season.

      1. Thanks for your advice. I like what I’ve heard about the boutique “culture” so don’t have my heart set on BBs or anything – was just wondering if there was something I was doing wrong that would hurt me going forward in the process.

        Thanks again!

  42. Hi Brian,
    Would like to know your opinion why there are high levels of entry to banking? Is it really because the work is so complex that you NEED a Harvard 4.0 or because they can due to demand? I mean I’m working in a small corporate finance company as an intern and I’m used mainly for pitch book work which is okay since I pretty much make all of it due to the company being small. Just wondering what’s the case at the big boys – are the models very detailed and are pitch books like bibles etc. and is that why they ask for ‘the best’?

    1. Nope, it’s strictly supply vs. demand. So many people want to break in that they can demand insane qualifications, just like medicine.

  43. Avatar
    Il Cavaliere

    I go to the Nr. 1 German business school and I got interviews for all of my applications. Goldman Sachs offers me interviews for 2 different divisions, even though my resume had an embarrassing typo in it. Also I have never worked in banking before, i interned in the finance department of a big company and in a consulting firm. I hope that apparent lack of IB-focus, compared to some nerds I know, won’t be a disadvantage in the interviews.
    Still I found it interesting, that compared to other applications, the banks seem to invite me the most. It’s probably due to the excellent grades.

  44. Your article really hits the mark and it’s so true. An associate at MS just recently referred me for a couple of grad positions at MS. I’ve taken the online tests and am now waiting to hear if I’ll be invited to interview. I know they’re getting a ton of applications for a limited number of positions. Do employee referrals help in getting an interview at all? I have a BSc Econ and an MSc Mgmt both from Penn State and graduated in a total of 4 years. I actually spent the last two years representing the US as a dancer and running an independent business-some people take gap year, I decided to run a business…what can I say? Any idea how this could affect an app for operations or IBD at a top tier like MS?

    1. Yes employee referrals help. Not sure how your background specifically affects things but you need to be able to tie your business background to banking… bankers don’t like creative/independent people so you’ll have to overcome that.

  45. Brian. I already had my contacts at some BBs forward my resume to whoever is in charge like 2-3 weeks ago. But until now I haven’t heard anything from HR or them regarding first-round interviews, and it’s already the last week of September. I heard most banks filled all spots with SAs and only recruit at target schools this year, so there won’t be superday or spot for non-target students (not sure about the accuracy of this). Is it safe to assume that those firms are off my list now? I don’t have my hope high to begin with ’cause my resume isn’t that as outstanding as it should be for a non-target, but I was wondering whether I should keep following up with those contacts? I don’t want to push them in the corner if they’re in no position to help. Thanks.

    1. I would just follow-up and ask them directly “Look I understand if you can’t help – I just want to know so I can move on if necessary – I appreciate you taking the time to help.”

      1. Thank you. HR actually contacted me and we talked over the phone about the process. I was told to apply online as well. I followed up later and was told by HR that they will be in touch if they decide to go ahead with my application. Is that just a subtle way of saying “sorry we can’t give you 1st round interview”? It’s late Sep, so I don’t have very good feelings. I’m thinking of reaching out to my contact, but not sure when and how I should say it? What do you think? Sigh, getting an interview is so hard for non-targets.

        1. It’s probably just HR being useless. I would still reach out to your contact soon and ask directly what the story is and whether or not recruiting is over.

  46. Avatar

    Everything you discuss and explore is so incredibly on the ball, its truly mind-blowing.

    I am that “guy that wouldn’t take no for an answer,” except that I’m a girl. Everything you have said is so, so true about networking, following up, and general standards for composing oneself. I really don’t know how I, with no banking experience, a mediocre GPA (though at a good school), and no finance background whatsoever am now interviewing for 4 incredible investment banks in a terrible hiring climate. It really is about 95% the motivation and picking up things quickly, even if late, and those “its rare, but it could happen” instances are extremely true, for all the hopefuls out there.

    Honestly, your posts are like those informational’s where you ask a million minute, detailed questions and still have a million left though it might be inappropriate to ask. Though informational’s are still crucial, you seem to answer every sub-question of a question I can have.

    Thank you so much!

    1. Glad to hear it – congrats on the interviews!

  47. Avatar
    Aus Intern

    Thought I’d also chip in my 2cents. This is for Australia but, don’t know what the differences are.

    Was recently offered M&A at a bulge bracket (my foot in the door). Candidates were flown in from different areas of the country, some had honours, some even had Masters, and some had worked at other Investment Banks and overseas. Majority were from the biggest Universities in Australia, and many candidates had a degree in Law.

    I on the other hand had only a double degree in Finance and Accounting, a 3.4 GPA, and work experience has been predominantely in accounting. My friend who is in a similar situation to me also got an offer in Global Markets.

    I spent no longer than an hour on my application and dealt with my interviews whilst working full time so could never properly prepare.

    I think it ultimately came down to luck and that the analysts thought they could get along with me. The article says it quite well. Be honest about yourself, and if you’re committed to your career goals, eventually someone will find you and realise you’re exactly the type of worker they want. No use pretending, that might not be what anyone is looking for, and lying will only come back and bite you. Also when you land your job, you’ll probably be better fitted and a lot happier – which would be very important for a job that basically becomes your life!

    1. Avatar
      Aus Intern

      Thought I’d also add, my application also had a spelling mistake in it too.

  48. Hey M&I,
    I’m an undergraduate looking to apply for junior summer analyst internships next summer. I was wondering if applying to multiple divisions at a bulge bracket (IBD and asset management) would hurt my chances. I am more interested in asset management but I want to “spread my net” as wide as possible.

    Also, if I apply online (or send my cv to a generic recruitment email), is that an automatic ding? How would I go about applying to some of the smaller MM/boutique firms (say Moelis or Greenhill) that don’t recruit at my semi-target school?


    1. No, but keep it to 2-3 at most so you don’t look too wishy-washy. You can apply online but its a better bet to get in touch with a real person at smaller places, chat for 15 minutes and then send your resume through him instead.

      1. Thanks for the response. By “real person” do you mean an alum who works there or is any person at all okay (such as HR, hiring director, etc.)? Because my school doesn’t have any alum at these smaller firms

        1. Alum are ideal but HR is fine if there are none

  49. Not much, interviews with VPs/Associates are likely to be more technical whereas ones with founders will be more fit-focused. If it’s for PE they will focus heavily on why you want to be there vs. other fields in finance and whether or not your story makes sense.

  50. I am going to the final round of the associate recruitment process. Numbers of interviews have been gone through with VPs and Associates both locally and overseas. What is the difference between interviewing with the fund founders and the VPs/Associates? What are the keys need to pay attention to for interviewing with senior people like the founders?

  51. Hi M&L!

    I have a short question regarding the first paragraph of the cover letter. If I had talked to someone in the info session or met someone from the company I’m applying for, but I talked/met him a while ago (1 months and upto 1 year), should I write a line saying that “I went to such-and-such place and it was a pleasure to meet you” kind of sentence, or should I just skip and head directly to the second paragraph? And also, what if the person that I know is not an associate or analyst, but VP or senior associate with at least 10 years of experience? (I met them only once and I don’t personally know them, and I happened to have their business cards) Thanks!

    1. You can add that line but don’t say “you” unless you’re actually writing to that person directly… if you are that’s fine. Doesn’t matter how old they are, still include it to remind them.

  52. I go to Northeastern University, and am currently in the middle of my 6 month internship at MFS Investment Management. I have a 3.4 GPA and a 3.8 GPA in my concentration classes (Finance/Accounting). What do you think my chances are of landing my next 6 month internship at a bulge bracket firm? And even if I don’t do one of my internships there, when I apply after I graduate, how much do they value something like two 6 month internships at MFS compared to a 10 week summer internship?

    1. The main issue is going to a relatively non-target school – if you have a really good network you have a good shot but you need to focus heavily on that. 6-month internships are good but not valued as highly as a traditional banking summer internship.

  53. I will be applying for an internship at Goldman Sachs & Co., J.P Morgan, and other bulge bracket banks next summer. I am currently an undergrad at the Haas School of Business (Berkeley), which impliments a grading curve that results in 5% of the students recieving A’s. This means that I may just barely reach the 3.5 GPA benchmark. Does the investment banking community know about the ‘Haas curve.’

    Also, I believe that Haas would be a target school since it is in the top 3 undergrad b-schools, but I don’t know. Would it be a target school even though it is not ivy?

    1. I would relax, they know some schools are more difficult than others.

      And yes, last time I checked, banks recruit at Berkeley… seeing as I went to your arch-rival school.

  54. Hi M&I,

    I recently applied to a whole bunch of investment banks both in Asia (I worked there last summer) and New York. I have bb trading experience from my last summer internship and the same gpa as last year but for some reason I managed to secure more interviews last year with fewer credentials than I did this year. I understand the markets are a lot worse, but I still only managed to get 2 phone interviews. Does having prior work experience significantly increase your chances or does it not really matter that much? I go to the University of Florida which is a non-target I guess, so I suppose that adds insult to injury?

    1. That is really strange… prior experience should help you a lot. Most people without some prior experience have been struggling this year.

      I would assume that it’s mostly because of the market in your case – if you already had a BB internship, your school does not matter as much.

  55. Avatar
    Some advice


    What would you say is a common path of progression to becoming a senior banker. It seems they have all of the fun while we are grinding away some crappy 600 x 10 cell data entry task.

    To get to MD level do you have to start as analyst (maybe) have break and do an MBA and then get straight back into banking or can you skip some of the steps by doing some other (maybe even non M&A – perhaps Sales or trading etc) alternatives? I just cant see myself grinding 7-10 years.

    1. First off, even at the senior level it’s something of a grind… turnover is still pretty high. Sure you get paid a lot more but it’s just as stressful, if not more so, even though the hours go down.

      Most MDs start out from MBA programs and come in as Associates, though there are exceptions… some banks were trending toward promoting from within a lot more, at least until recently.

      But in general you can’t really “skip” steps on the way from Associate to MD – at least I’ve never heard of that happening. If you go to a different field they will usually not give you “credit” for it.

  56. hey M&I,

    I have an interview with specifically a Debt Capital Markets Group tomorrow, and since it was not mentioned in your guide. Does the approach to this interview change compared to preparing for a more general investment banking interview?


    1. Its very similar, main difference is that they will focus more on “Why DCM?” but they are unlikely to ask much in the way of different questions for any kind of entry-level/summer interview.

  57. I’m a junior in college who’s going to apply for business schools next semester. I worked for two years before college in a education consulting firm based in Boston (yes, right after high school) and worked in the New Business Team related to online Services. Do you think admission officers will take my experience seriously? I heard that they usually value post-college working experience only…
    I’m aiming at a buy-side job if I can get in a decent business school. So do I have a shot to get into buy-side companies considering my working experience? I really appreciate your attention.

    1. Honestly it’s pretty tough unless you’ve had post-graduation, full-time experience… they don’t really value internships that much. I’d suggest postponing business school if at all possible because you’ll be competing with people who have 5-10 years of experience.

  58. Do you know any good tips / blogs / sites about careers in asset management?

    1. Not offhand… maybe look under some of the sites on wallstreetoasis and see if anything is there?

  59. After doing the analyst thing for two years and moving to a PE firm or HF, are the hours or pay better or something? I’m still unclear on why everyone is so intent on making this transition. I’ve heard you work more at PE firms and get paid less. And at HFs you work less and get paid less. What’s the deal?

    1. From reading some of M&I’s earlier posts, I’m gonna guess that he would answer it like this: At PE firms, you’ll likely work about the same – maybe a little less – and make a bit more money. But the difference in pay gets larger as you progress. In a HF, you will likely work less, make the same to less, and the pay as you progress is much more volatile – you could be one of those fund managers getting a billion dollar bonus, or you could make nothing.

      1. Yeah that’s a good summary. Do note that at some HFs you still work a lot, though – some large ones are noted for being really intense, more so than banking.

    2. It really depends on the fund. At the biggest ones, you get paid quite a bit even as an Associate – at the middle-market and smaller ones it will be more than what you made as an Analyst but less than what IBD Associates make, even starting out.

      As you move up the difference starts to get larger.

      In general the hours will be -a bit- better but not nearly as much as some people would have you believe. Nothing in finance gives you a normal lifestyle (and at some of the biggest places, hours are actually worse than in banking).

  60. Great article, as always. I was just wondering what you thought of frats? Were you ever in one? Is there any reason to join a business frat instead of a social one?

    And I think it’s pretty awesome that you’re in Korea (I was born in Pusan). Which brings me to ask, are you Asian? Chinese? Korean? It’s cool if you don’t want to say, I was just curious. I guess I just always imagined you as a white guy but recent posts have made me ponder.

    Thanks again!

    1. Yeah I think business frats could be helpful, depends a lot on the specific school/frat though. Social ones are more for fun and not as good for networking, at least with finance… can be helpful in other fields though, lots of friends found non-finance jobs via frats.

      I’m not Asian.

  61. Avatar
    Some advice

    I managed to get a off-cycle internship with no previous IB by being lucky.

    The good news is that you can create your own luck and increase the chance of a positive outcome. Make sure that you apply EVERYWHERE. Also dont just fire away an email and sit on your arse…phone them up. It helps to make a personal connection. If you hear nothing back for a month phone them up again. Ask for the person you last spoke and see whats going on. I think this was a key factor for me.

    I also think that it helps to have something quirky on your CV. Mine finishes with my interests; Kitesurfing, Real Time Strategy gaming, electronic music and painting. It was rather fortunate that the big cheese who interviewed me in the final round has been kitesurfing. Be specific about your interests and dont put thinks like “reading”, “travelling” or “music” – its a little too bland.

    1. Yup, great advice. People always underestimate how much getting personal and persisting really helps out… and the value of quirky anything on your resume.

  62. Great article. Two questions, unrelated to the post.

    1. Where does Perella Weinberg stand in your eyes? Lazard is the boutique that gets all the glory, but with Perella’s star-studded cast, what are your thoughts on it compared to other boutiques?

    2. Are Emory or Michigan considered “target” schools for the banks?


    1. It’s definitely a good firm – I don’t rank banks as a general policy, but it is on par with other top boutiques.

      Emory and Michigan are both semi-targets – some banks recruit there, but less so than at the Ivy League, for example.

      1. Avatar
        Some advice

        Go on. Rank the banks….just this once. You know you waaant toooo.

        Seriously though: I would be interested to hear you thoughts on how working for Perella compares with say working at JP Morgan or somewhere like Jefferies. The particular criteria that I am interested in are the type of work you, the hours, contact with senior bankers and clients and the prestige.

        1. Work/hours is basically the same… the main difference is that the clients and deals tend to be smaller and it’s all M&A vs. the industry/product groups you would get at a larger bank.

          To be perfectly honest, once you work in the industry long enough you realize it’s all the same everywhere… no place is really that different.

          The MAIN difference is that bigger places will make it easier to move to large-cap PE firms and HFs.

  63. the whole interview process is so weird to me…
    Due to one of my own mistakes through my school’s career website, I didn’t submit cover letters to 3 of the bulge brackets that I was looking at…and I still got interviews from them.
    Also, I made a mistake by submitting resumes to multiple divisions within a bank, like asset management and investment banking to better my chances. I thought this would screw me over because I wouldn’t look like a focused individual, but I got 3 interviews to 3 divisions of a bank…

    1. JH,

      what school do you go to ? Are youy applying for internships or full time?

      1. i go to an ivy league and am applying for summer internships…it might be due to the fact that i have a very high gpa

        1. Nice humble brag, man. It is so weird that you’d get an interview even though you didn’t try hard in your applications. You just must be awesome person.

          It’s not like they don’t give almost every ivy leaguer an opportunity to interview, since they do it on campus…

  64. Bummer. I was in Seoul for the first week of January; now back in the States.

  65. This article is awesome. I am currently doing a full year exchange at Beijing University- Guanghua School of Managment from Queen’s University in Canada. I am going to South Korea for Spring Festival on the last week from Jan 27 to Feb 1. Depending on your schedule in South Korea and China (if you are coming to Beijing), I would like to arrange time when I can meet up with you.

    1. Yeah think I’ll be gone by then unfortunately…

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