Weekly Reader Q&A: The Age Factor, Finance Internships Abroad, And Fall Analyst Recruiting (And More Summer Internship Tips)
As the end approaches (I’m a few short weeks away from finishing up my investment banking “career”), I keep receiving interesting questions every day. My email volume doubles each week (or at least it seems that way), and while that’s bad for my free time, I could now do endless Q&A columns and never run out of topics.
I have some big plans for Mergers & Inquisitions coming up over the summer and into the fall (amazing what an extra 80-100 hours of free time each week allows you to do), so stay tuned for announcements soon. In the meantime, let’s proceed to this week’s edition of reader Q&A.
The Age Factor And Part-Time MBA Programs: How Old Is “Too Old?”
“I’m in my early 30′s and about to start a part-time MBA program at a top 20 school. I’ll be in my mid-30′s when I graduate. Since I’m making a career change and will be above the median age for new Associates, I’m worried about actually getting into investment banking.
How much does age factor into recruitment? Am I going to be at a severe disadvantage?”
Age definitely plays a factor in recruiting. Banks, for example, are unlikely to hire Analysts older than their late 20′s (anyone older than that would never put up with staying in the office until 4 AM and waking up at 6 AM); if you’re over 40 it’s going to be hard to break in no matter how senior you are.
However, I don’t think you’ll be “too old” to get into banking. Most Associates are a bit younger, but not by enough to put you at a disadvantage.
The bigger problem will be the part-time MBA program – banks recruit mostly from full-time MBAs, and in general the part-time programs are not regarded in the same light. I would do some research and assess the recruiting environment at your school; if there isn’t any recruiting, either consider a full-time MBA program or get started networking with alumni and friends in the industry right away.
Finance Internships Abroad vs. Staying In The US
“I’ve accepted an internship at a well-known European bank. The internship is in London and seems to be very similar to US internships; as an added benefit, I’ll be getting a lot of great contacts in Europe.
What would you think when looking at a resume of someone with my background? I do want to work full-time in New York since I was born and raised in the US – how would US banks react to an internship in Europe? Would it be positive since it stands out from other people or negative since London is much different from New York?”
Working abroad anywhere is a positive, especially in today’s world. Over time experience outside the US will continue to grow in importance, especially since the US is no longer the center of the world (see: investment bankers flocking to Dubai).
Even if the European bank is less “prestigious” (I hate that word) than its US-based counterparts, the internship itself will still be a huge positive and won’t hinder you from working in New York, especially since you’re from there originally.
I might have mentioned this before, but my experience abroad is one of the reasons I got into investment banking in the first place – it made me stand out compared to everyone else applying for the same spots.
Fall Analyst Recruiting At The Bulge Brackets
“I graduated from a top 20 university last year and have been working at a well-known (but not M/B/B) consulting firm for the last several years. I really want to switch into investment banking, but I know it will be hard given the current hiring market.
I’ve been thinking about trying to squeeze into the fall analyst recruiting cycle and interview alongside undergraduate candidates – do you think this will work? And do you think bulge bracket banks will even be recruiting analysts this year?
That seems to be the question of the hour – well, that and 2008 bonuses (I will write about my views next week).
Banks will almost certainly recruit in the fall, but I doubt that it’s going to improve much compared to 2007 – it will either stay the same or get worse. I hate to sound depressing, but people are getting laid off left and right and business is… slow… really slow. Most of my work lately has been pitching deals that will never happen.
Putting aside market concerns, many consultants do transition into investment banking and private equity. However, given your circumstances it’s more realistic to consider 1 of 2 options:
- Go to a boutique or middle-market rather than aiming strictly for bulge bracket firms – it is extremely tough to come in with a non-traditional background in a bear market.
- Go to business school and start banking as an Associate. By then the economy should have recovered (or else we’re all in a lot of trouble).
I’m not sure what you mean by “interviewing alongside undergraduate candidates” – you can’t do this since lateral hiring is a completely different process. If I were you, I would start networking and contacting friends in the industry right now and take advantage of any unexpected departures in the summer season – Analysts sometimes leave after their first year and you take advantage of this to land a job.
More Investment Banking/Finance Summer Internships
In other news, some other sites out there picked up my Summer Intern Success Guide feature on Tuesday and I saw many great contributions. Here are a few sites that featured my guide and some of my favorite tips:
Prince Of Wall Street – Advice for Summer Analysts Hitting the Desks
Besides linking to several of my posts in this post (always a good way to get my attention :), The Prince also goes into a few tips of his own – I think it’s a great idea to find the best analyst. There is a huge difference between the top analysts and those who don’t know much, and befriending the smartest guy in the room is a great way to get ahead (as long as we’re not talking about Enron).
I also like his advice to develop relationships with your staffer and the higher-ups as well as with the Analysts – Analysts often decide who gets offers and who doesn’t at the end of the summer, so you need to heed this one.
Finally, working out and eating healthy food are critical – I’ll write a few more articles on how to stay fit as an investment banker since there’s a lot of interest in this topic.
Financial Rounds – Some Quick Tips For Summer Internships (Investment Banking and Otherwise)
Besides complimenting my name (another good way to get my attention :), Financial Rounds also offers up some other useful tips for summer interns.
I especially like his tip to avoid badmouthing the competition; I’ve seen this happen with summer interns and it’s never a pretty sight. As I’ve mentioned before, summer intern competition is not nearly as intense as you probably think, so there’s no reason to badmouth others.
And never try to suck up to someone above an Analyst – we notice when you do this and will always find some way to screw you over, even if you’re not aware of it.
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The “part-time” stigma will change over time. I got into banking via a part-time (top 20) MBA program, and the fact that I balanced a full time job plus a 20-hour school commitment was a great selling point. It also conditioned me to enter the banking pace — to some the heavy workload could have been a shock, but putting in 70-80 hours a week was nothing new to me.
Well there you go, things are changing. Congrats on getting in. I definitely see what you mean in terms of selling the interviewers on how you can handle the pace/lifestyle and all.
You might have answered this before, but what will you be doing after your IB “career” is over? Hopefully continuing the blog.
I haven’t gone into much detail yet, but I will be owning and running several of my own businesses. This site will be one of them. :)
Looking forward to see your big plans unveil for Mergers and Inquisitions. It’s exciting to be running your own businesses.
Thanks Corinne, hope to discuss more my future plans here soon (painful last few weeks at work). Starting/running businesses is indeed addictive. :)
I can’t stop smiling ever since the last about 15 hours straight I’ve been on this site reading every single post b/c you have big plans for the summer!! =D=D Can’t wait!!!
Jane, glad to see you enjoy the site. :)
Brian,
Sorry to bother you, but I think I have a question which may interest you. Firstly, I would like to refer to breaking into M&A in London from a financial regulatory background. I am currently working for the Financial Services Authority on a graduate programme full of people mainly from Oxbridge/ top 5 Uni’s. I am currently rotating in risk management. Many of these people have chose to work here over banks as the UK is currently in a state of regulatory transition; and they find this deeply interesting. I have an MSc and BSc from the University of Bham (top 20 but not a target school) but no internship/ grad experience in IBD mainly because I can’t get any. Hence where I work. How could I better sell my self from a regulatory perspective in your opinion? I have marketed my analytical skills, people skills, knowledge of how the transition will effect banks ( I am involved in designing the risk models) but to no avail.
Secondly I am thinking of applying to the LSE for an MSc in Finance (part time) to help me get a prestigious school on my CV. This is a massive financial commitment; the end question is, will this ultimately help me break into corporate finance banking? I have a strong knowledge of financial market activity but I am finding it hard just to get an interview; I have spent two years preparing for an interview which just has never come. I remain dedicated to breaking in at all costs, so would deeply appreciate any advice you could give me. Thanks for your time.
Honestly its pretty hard coming from a risk management background, I would recommend looking at S&T instead of IB because there is much more overlap there. Yes LSE will definitely help you break in. http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-networking-london/
Hi,
I saw the “Fall Analyst Recruiting At The Bulge Brackets” topic and would like to ask about a samilar situation here.. I graduated last year from a top UK uni with an Engineering degree, and am currently working in Loan Syndication in Asia. As I started working, I realise that my interest lies more on IBD and would really like to make a career change. May I know if you could share some view on how shall I make the best from my current job to leverage my experience in preparation for any IBD opportunities, please? Many thanks!
I don’t have much to add beyond “network extensively via alumni, co-workers, and any other means you can and contact headhunters.” Focus on Leveraged Finance or DCM groups within IB as those have the most overlap with what you’re doing, maybe also Financial Sponsors.
Thanks a lot for your input! What about any skill set that I could focus on developing with my current job? Since I don’t do financial modelling at work,and it seems to me that modelling skill is a very important for professional hires, I am just wondering how could I leverage the most out of what I am doing now to persuade people that I could be qualified despite not knowing how to model.. Apology if this question may sound stupid, as I just started working in finance and am still learning the business..
Then focus on your knowledge of the syndication process and how you know how to run deals, because that is equally important in IB.
Thanks a lot, will keep that in mind!
Hey, I’m new to the site but thanks for this post. I go to a top undergrad business school in the US and I am currently interning abroad on an ibanking team in a foreign bank. (I thought this would be a more interesting experience than working in a smaller firm back in the states) I was wondering how you used your experience abroad to your advantage during all your interviews. Thanks!
It was more just about telling an interesting story, few other people had studied in that country so they asked lots of questions “Oh what did you do there” “Wow did you do X Y and Z”
Hi there I just came across your site and hope it’s ok to post a question here. I want to get into investment banking and a research/analyst type role but I don’t have a background in finance. I hold a 2.1 BA in English literature and Archaeology and have a 1.1 Hdip. I have developed a passion for the financial markets over the past 2 years and really want to start my career in this area. I’m 29 though and I know I have my work cut out for me. I really want to do this the smartest way possible and hope you could advise me as to what postgraduate study/internship would be the best approach. I’m Irish but happy to study and work abroad. Would really appreciate any advice you may have. Thanks a mil, Sall.
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-masters-programs/
I should have also added that I am to start the CFAs and do CFA 1 in December. Would this be enough to get an internship/work experience?
It may help but probably won’t be enough
Hi M&I,
You site has been extremely helpful. Great advise!
I dont have any experiece. I am from Chile and since I came to US, I’ve been a tennis Pro for 5 years in the Hamptons, NY. I have met many super wealthy successful people in finance. Consequently, I became very interested in breaking in the finance world and some of my clients have encouraged me to do so by going to B-school. Here is my situation: I joined the US Air Force Reserve to pay for school (yes, that’s how much I want it). I am attending Penn State and will graduate in 2 years with a finance degree. I will have at least a 3.5 gpa. However, I will be 30 yrs old by then and have 2 more years in the AF. How likely is it to get in as an Analyst? Would it best for me to think about trading or wealth management? At this point I’m not thinking about an MBA yet. How can I break in? Thanks.
Ale.
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/age-investment-banking/ You can do it, really depends on the strength of your internship experience… if you don’t have internships another field and/or MBA might be better
Hi Guys,
Im a citizen of a Gulf Arab country and I have done 2 internships (in the biggest Gulf Arab country…you guess :D) so far.
I was wondering if it’s a good idea to do my 3rd internship in Indonesia or Singapore (have offers from top banks in both countries…unpaid nonetheless) instead of country X for the 3rd time??
Yes Singapore
I was wondering, if I went t get a degree in economics from a schol like the London School of Economics, would investment banks think I would still be qualified for a job as a junior analyst?
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-major/