If You Can’t Get a Paid Finance Internship or Job, Should You Offer to Work for Free?
As graduation and summer internship season approach, you may be considering unpaid options more seriously if you’re still looking for an internship or job.
On the surface, this seems like an easy one, supported by straightforward logic:
- Banks and other financial services firms are hurting due to the recession.
- Therefore, they don’t want to pay anyone very much – or anything at all – to work for them.
- So if you ask for pay, you may not get interviews or offers…
- But if you offer to do it for free, they’ll be a lot more receptive!
After all, who wouldn’t want to give up some short-term earnings if it ensured long-term success?
One small problem: the logic above is 100% flawed.
It’s usually a bad idea to propose an unpaid work arrangement – except for a few specific instances, which we’ll get into below.
“Your Logic Is Flawed!”
The logic above assumes that firms are not hiring because they can’t afford it (see statement 2).
But with the way the market is right now, most firms are not hiring because they don’t have enough work to go around.
It doesn’t matter whether they pay you $10,000 or they pay $0: if they don’t have any work for you to do, you’re still “costing” them (just in time rather than money).
There are some exceptions: Restructuring groups and hybrid consulting/banking firms focused on turnarounds are relatively “hot,” and most PE firms and banks still hire a minimum number of interns and entry-level Analysts/Associates each year.
Funds of funds and tiny startups that have sprung up recently (many of them formed by ex-bulge bracket guys) are also looking for people, though in many cases more so at the VP/MD-level than at the Analyst/Associate level.
But aside from the tiniest of boutiques, your salary or requested salary makes almost no difference in whether or not they’ll consider you.
And by “boutiques” I don’t mean Lazard or Evercore – I mean extremely tiny firms with 3-4 guys max, because they’ll care about even small expenses.
But Will It Work for You?
Offering to work for free is most appropriate if you’re an undergraduate or a recent graduate. If you’re any older than that, you’ll look a bit desperate immediately asking for an unpaid opportunity.
Yes, everyone knows the market is awful, there are no jobs, and that you would take whatever you could get right now – but no, you still shouldn’t openly admit any of this.
So if you’re in an MBA program or you’ve been laid off recently – or you’ve been working for awhile – I would not recommend leading your call or email by saying, “I’ll work for free!”
If whomever you’re calling happens to raise it as an “objection” (e.g. “We can’t afford anyone right now”) then it might make sense to offer a rebuttal (e.g. “What about an unpaid experience?”).
But you should wait until they actually raise an objection before you make your “counter-proposal.”
This strategy will not work very well if you’re more experienced – most firms don’t like to take experienced people on for free, just due to legal/HR reasons and general principle.
But if you are targeting somewhere truly tiny, it can work… one MBA-level reader last year actually got an internship at a start-up prop trading firm using this strategy.
Strategies for Undergraduates
If you’re younger and want to use this strategy, I would state this upfront (“I wanted to ask about unpaid summer intern openings…”) only if you’re going for the tiny, no-name, 3-4 person firms.
Even most “boutique,” middle-market, and other, smaller banks have formal recruiting processes in place and will not be receptive to this approach – so I’d save it for an objection rebuttal if it comes up.
Other Tactics
If you’ve already spoken with firms and tried to propose unpaid internships with no success, what else can you do?
Talk to Places That Already Have Standard, Unpaid Internships
Plenty of firms actually have a culture of taking on unpaid interns, whether during the school year or in the summer.
Rather than trying to pitch yourself to a bank that doesn’t actually want unpaid help, why not try these places first?
One that comes to mind in the SF Bay Area is FT Partners; and there are other regional boutiques that like free labor, often found through university organizations and business frats.
If you ask around within business frats and other groups you can find a lot of information on other tiny firms in your area that do this.
Go Into Finance Industries That Are Known for Not Actually Paying People
The most obvious example: prop trading firms, especially small ones, are known for paying extremely low (or non-existent) salaries and only giving you a percentage of your P&L as pay.
Not all companies do this, obviously, but it’s far more common in the world of prop trading than it is with investment banks and PE firms.
So if you went to a tiny, no-name trading firm they might just assume that you’re willing to work for no salary, on a 100%-commission basis.
That’s not great for you, but at least it gives you the possibility of making money – as opposed to a real “unpaid” internship where you’ll just get experience and contacts.
Related Finance Jobs
If you can get something that’s finance-related but not directly in banking/PE/investing of any kind, there are 2 advantages:
- You are more likely to actually get paid… and therefore stay afloat for awhile longer if that’s a major concern.
- You’re more likely to actually get a job or internship in the first place – especially if you target firms that are not used to receiving cold calls and cold emails from random, well-qualified, and well-spoken strangers.
Lateraling from this type of role into banking is 100% dependent on the market, which no one can predict. But doing something is a better choice than going for banks that just aren’t hiring right now.
The Non-Profit Angle
Another approach: if you can afford to work for free for a summer or for an extended period of time, apply to non-profits or similar organizations that have some relevance to finance.
Why?
Well, unlike most “normal” companies, pretty much any non-profit in existence would love to have additional free labor at their disposal.
On paper, it might not seem too relevant to finance – so you’ll have to spin it appropriately and focus on the “business results” of what you did, whether that was getting additional donors, raising money, or recruiting.
Also (and this is something I’ve only seen mentioned once elsewhere), there’s actually increased M&A activity among non-profits, because they are strapped for cash.
If you could work at one that was in the midst of some type of deal, you could use that experience to look like you did something finance-related and tell a good story about your interest.
The Unpaid Conundrum
So, should you offer to work for free if you can’t find anything that pays you?
Only if you’re a student or recent graduate, or you’re going for a truly tiny startup firm (or maybe a non-profit).
Otherwise it will just backfire on you, especially if you’re not a college student.
P.S. We got lots of great networking questions earlier this week – we collected them all and will be answering as many as possible in our live discussion next week.
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What about private wealth management if you can’t get into investment banking? What are some exit opportunities if you go that route and what are common salaries/hours?
Pay and hours are both less, but still higher paying than an average job.
Typically you just stay in PWM, but the easiest exit opportunities would be going to a hedge fund or doing some type of trading.
It’s better than other options like back-office work, but still makes it more difficult to ultimately transition into IBD (since half the people in PWM probably want to be in IBD already…).
For high school students, how would one go about contacting and finding firms that would consider offering an unpaid internship…in Canada.
Same strategies you always use when cold-calling: introduce yourself briefly, ask directly what you’re looking for, and don’t give up until you get through to someone useful… i.e. not HR, make sure you can actually speak with a banker or at least the person in charge of hiring. It goes without saying, but you’re wasting your time unless you’re going for extremely tiny firms as well.
Interviewed at a fund manager as a undergrad for an investment analyst position, didn’t get the offer despite the fact that they thought I could do the job. Offered to work unpaid to gain experience – they accepted and they actually gave me more interesting alternative asset work than the guy who was getting paid. The unpaid position eventually turned into paid position (Note: worked hard)
Six months part-time unpaid turned into full time offer. In the meantime, interviewed for M&A summer internships and got the job due to my alternate asset experience. Resigned from funds manager before Summer. Completed summer intership and got offered a grad position (note: worked hard)
At the end of the day, experience is everything and you’ll always be trapped in a vicious cycle if you don’t have any experience. Who cares if it’s unpaid – the fund manager was quite impressed that I was willing to work unpaid.
Right, but I think your situation was a bit different in that you already interviewed with them and they were clearly interested in you to begin with.
I recommend against offering it upfront if unless they have already considered you and said no for various reasons… it’s like going up to a member of the opposite sex who’s clearly not interested vs. someone who’s already somewhat interested in you.
Experience is everything, but keep in mind that you were also much younger than many readers and for someone with 5+ years of experience it looks a little weird to offer to work for free.
Hi M&I,
I am a rising senior (UNC Chapel Hill) and will be interviewing for FT positions in the fall. Unfortunately, I didn’t get an internship this summer and will be studying abroad.
I’m concerned about my situation and I’ve been trying to think of ways to offset my lack of experience. Would it make sense to register for the CFA Level 1 exam in December in order to demonstrate a commitment and interest in finance?
It would help, but the CFA is not going to completely offset your lack of finance experience. For the hours and time/effort you put in, it’s far more effective to try to find something part-time in the fall when you get back and point to that as evidence of your interest… even something unpaid (as I say above) would be a good idea, just so you can say that you’ve done something in the real world that looks relevant.
Hi M&I,
I’m at a critical career decision point.
I’ve been an IB analyst for the last year at a boutique that has been doing very badly in the last few months. Threats of retrenchment are looming and getting real by the day. My boss has selected a couple of us to be seconded to a developing country to start up the IB practice there and has hinted that if I do not go along with it, things will not be pleasant. I can foresee plenty of administrative shit in the new place since it is a start up with zero deals in the pipeline, and the seniors who will be going along are of not top quality. My option if i decline is to be transferred to another dept. such as wealth management/treasury, or take a tremendous pay cut and hope that deals will come by in the developed country I am in.
Do you see any benefits in being part of a team starting up an IB franchise in a developing country? And, do you have any general advise for my position?
I had a friend who had to do something like that. I think it comes down to whether or not you see yourself in that country long-term – going there will make it more difficult for you to move elsewhere. Having that experience of starting a local branch will look impressive on your resume, but you’re right in that it won’t be much in the way of real deal exposure.
Personally, I would only move to the other country if you could see yourself working there for the next few years and possibly longer than that.
Otherwise, I’d stay here and do some networking/cold-calling/cold-emailing on the side to introduce yourself to other boutiques and hopefully move somewhere more stable… and getting moved to another division would then be a backup plan.
I’m a freshman (first year) and would appreciate any experience (including unpaid). How would I find these no-name HFs and boutiques? It’s a long shot to get anything but I would just cold-email these firms. I’m hoping for the experience to put me in good stead for summer internship cycle next year. Any other things to help me stand out would be great especially since I’m from a non-target.
Thanks.
I would look on that thread on WSO (http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/regional-boutiques) and ask people there to post a list of firms in your area. You can try to find them via Google searches but it’s a real long shot, you really need Capital IQ.
Hi there,
I enjoy reading your tips for application in other interview scenarios.
But just to keep up with the pace (being a non finance person) what do the abbreviations PE and IBD stand for? … such as in “PE firms” or “getting into IBD”
Thanks
PE: Private Equity
IBD: Investment Banking
James is correct. Maybe I should add a glossary to the site…
FTP literally sucks. It is really shitty place.
Never said it was good, only that it was available. :)
Would it be appropriate to ask for an unpaid internship based on the fact that I have no experience in finance? I’m going for my MBA one year from now but I want to get some experience with an investment firm beforehand…
That’s fine, but I wouldn’t necessarily bring it up right off the bat… maybe wait and see if they object, and then offer it up.
is the interviewing process different when volunteering to do an informal unpaid stint rather than a formal gig? could you get one with no finance exp?
It’s not any different really, same types of questions. And yes, you can get one with no experience… see the case studies on this site.
Hi there,
Amazing website by the way. I’ve spent countless of hours reading the articles on here and have learned a lot.
I’m a first year student at the Schulich School of Business in Toronto (not so much of a “target school” for investment banking but it is a prestigious [I know you don't like that word] one.)
I have started my own company recently that is mainly focusing on an investment fund at the moment. I have about 30 investors (friends, their parents, and my family) with about $100,000 in equity. School has slowed me down in the process of it, but with the semester nearing to an end I’ll have more time to focus on it.
I also want to keep my options open for investment banking, however. I know it’s already April but I did read an article about cold-calling asset management firms to try and get a summer-intern, and it was possible, even at this late time.
Do you think I should try to get an intern position for this summer? I’m in first year once again and I have no relevant job experience (besides my company). Would second year be too late and risky to try and obtain a position?
Thank a lot M&I!
Honestly it doesn’t matter that much if you’re only in your first year. Especially if you have something else impressive to talk about it, internships start mattering a lot more from your 2nd year onward.
for my curiosity what is the pay for a summer analyst
Pro-rated based on FT analyst pay so usually $10-15K
Hello,
I am currently attending University of Manitoba’s Asper School of Business, doing a double major in Finance/International Business. I will be graduating in December 2011. I desperately want to secure an investment banking internship for next summer. This summer I worked in the Purchasing Department for our provincial Energy Utility. My GPA is 3.7.
Here in Winnipeg there isn’t much for investment banking; a few small boutique firms. I would like to obtain a summer internship either in Toronto or abroad; namely Duba, Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong, Singapore.
What is the best way to go about obtaining an internship like this, and do I have any chance whatsoever seeing as my school is not exactly well known?
PS. Your site is great!
See all the articles on networking under “Recruiting” at the top of the page. There are also a dozen or so case studies / interviews with readers detailing how to do this – basically you need to talk to alumni / cold-call / go to events, do weekend trips and so on.
hey man tell me how it goes..I was thinking of transferring to u of m or calgary and wondering how tough it is to get into banking from those schools
I plan to take an unpaid internship at a BB bank in the wealth management department. I just started my freshman year of undergraduate school in Manhattan. I also have a year experience in the mortgage refinance industry prior to starting college.
After reviewing my standards, how likely do you think that I can land an interview at JP Morgan’s summer internship program for freshmen?
Note: I attend a target school for JP Morgan’s IB and S&T.
Your chances are good since you’re starting so early and have solid credentials already
I spoke with the employer today and they said I must obtain college credit for the internship or I can not work. I must also provide paperwork from the school to the employer, what seems to be similar to permission slips.
I spoke with the internship coordinators at my school anxiously. They said I did not qualify to be able to register an internship for college credit due to my grade level and that I must have a declared major (45 credits) in order to participate in the internship. As a freshman in school I was far away from this once in a life time opportunity.
What I seek your advice on is what to do next?
I was pondering about and thought maybe I can speak to the internship coordinators who handle the paperwork from the school to the bank to convince them to approve this internship for college credit, without having to actually award those credits to me.
What will be the legal issues if I pursue my next possible option? Are banks strict enough to dig through my transcript to look for the credit? Will I be in danger if the unpaid internship is on my resume without the actual credit being reported on the transcript? How likely would you sign the paperwork if you were the internship coordinator?
Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
If you’re still in your first year I would not even worry about this… just wait until you have a major first.
I’m currently doing an unpaid internship with UBS’s wealth management department, they don’t pay their interns..ever.
I was wondering how should I leverage this experience to maybe go into their IB division. I have their global list of contacts but I’m not sure who I should contact and if it would be inapproporiate. UBS IB does not recruit at my school.
Contact everyone you can… no reason not to. Focus on the bankers (especially the more senior ones) and go through the standard informational interview process (search this site for more).
I am currently studying at the London School of Economics (LSE) doing an MSc in Management. Prior to this, I did my bachelors in Economics & Finance from the University of Manchester. I recently applied to JP Morgan’s IB Risk Division and did extremely well in the interview (HR said I got a 9.5/10) but didnt get through as I failed the numerical test by a single point.
I was wondering if it would be a good strategy to get in touch with HR and offer to do an unpaid internship. Thanks.
Worth a shot.
Hi. Having searched for any job whatsoever, I am thinking now about unpaid internship in finance. I just graduated from MBA with 3.9 GPA, however, I am unemployed and have a previous work experience of only 5 years in US in the mortgage industry (2002-2007). Yes, huge gap in employment and no experience in finance. Noone even consider me for interviews.
Plus… I am 42.
Should I try unpaid internship?
It’s almost impossible if you already have an MBA – better to think about other options closer to what you did before, with IB they are extremely structured in their recruiting
Thank you very much for your response. I may have to go back to school to take a few accounting classes ( or do MSA) One of my friends is at one of the big four accounting firms and promised to help. Thanks again.
I was offer an unpaid internship at an ER boutique firm, but 2 days later I found another paid internship else where (also an ER firm).
Both companies are same in size and rep, but of course i’ll pick the paid position.
Anyhow, how should i tell the first company that I am not interested anymore without actually offending them. Or do u even think i should even worry about this?
Just tell them that you have been offered a paid ER position in the same industry w a company of similar size and rep. See if the first one is willing to pay you. If not, tell them you are going for the paid internship. No hard feelings – they should understand.
Thanks for the response
anyways sth happened and everything changed
anyhow long story short
I had another interview. After the interview, the interviewer said he really liked me and wanted me to help him in his next project (M&A stuff but unpaid). He said the project would start in the beg of Oct (told me 2 weeks ago). I was wondering if I should send him an email to remind him of this and if i do how can I say it in a way to not be overly desperate?
Yes remind him – don’t remind him of the unpaid aspect though haha
Hi,
I am a final year student in a non-targeted sch with avg grades. I tried to apply internships but there wasn’t much results since i had no previous IB experience.
Which is a better option?
Apply internship as a financial/security/equity analyst in some small boutiques after i graduate..
or
Apply for full time credit analyst position in a bank?
And how related is credit analyst to IB positions in the future?
Thanks for helping me out.
Small boutique is probably better, credit analyst isn’t quite as relevant.
What if a client wants to work for the Investment Bank that structured their deal? Is this possible or a conflict of interest? Wouldn’t this demonstrate that you can bring in deals?
I’ve already answered your same question in another post.
As a senior looking for FT offers but not getting any (and recruiting season almost over), does it come off as desperate to offer to work unpaid?
I wouldn’t suggest working unpaid though if you have no experience in finance it can possibly get your foot in the door. The problem w working unpaid is that most BBs still need headcount to take in people (paid or unpaid) so you will have to approach smaller firms who have the flexibility to hire unpaid staff
There’s an unpaid intern position at Merrill Lynch Wealth Management at San Francisco. They said on the website that the major responsibilities include selling and telemarketing, and requires candidates to be strong at Excel and technologies. Upon enquiry on the phone, they said I will be helping their financial advisors. Do you think this internship is worthwhile to win an interview chance? I’m most interested in IBD. Thanks
It sounds like a lot of cold-calling, but if you’re a 1st or 2nd year student it may still be helpful for you.
Hello Brian,
I am currently a freshman at NYU and i just landed an unpaid internship offer at a small firm. I will be doing hedge fund research and work directly with the founder ( the name is BroadReach Group). So here is my question:
1)knowing that i was freshman, i sent out over a dozen applications over the career net. I ended up getting an offer at the end of the interview and i didn’t want to cancel it or tell them something like “maybe”. Would i be able to cancel off them before i start working on monday ( if i get another offer for an interview).
2) Do you think that interning at a firm such as this one (it focuses on talent research and placement) would be beneficial for me in the long wrong? It is unpaid but i do get reimbursed for travelling and food expenses.
Thank you !!
1.http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/renege-investment-banking-job-offer/
2. I don’t think there’s a wrong/right move. It depends on your perspective. Do you have better options? If you don’t, I’d start with this one and see how it goes
Hello Sir,
This is Ravi, from Mumbai, India.
I have completed Chartered Accountancy program from India. Recently i have been offered as a trainee in one of the boutique firms in India ? Actually i was not selected for the job because of not having communication skills, but i was offered to work as a trainee.
The stipend offered is too less i.e. $500 per month. also the period as a training is not fixed. it can take half year to one full year, unless i communicate fluently. The job is make the business for the firm. I will be learning pitch books related things. May i know what is the meaning “to make business/ clients for the firm ?
And another job i have been offered for around $1000 related to auditing, totally different field. I am confused whether to take the training or the job of $1000 ? also my age is 24.
Please sir suggest me what should i take ? is there good scope in the training related to finance in boutique firm ?
Regards,
Ravi.
It depends on which job you enjoy more. Given the salary difference, I’d probably ask the boutique firm for a raise to match your other offer. I’d also speak with the boutique firm to understand more about your responsibilities before you make a decision
Hi,
All your posts were really helpful.
I am currently a junior in Goizueta Business School of Emory University with a concentration in Finance.
I want to get a junior summer internship in one of big firms such as JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch… I don’t care about the pay or if its paid. I would even be willing to pay to get an opportunity to intern for those firms. Do you know where I can buy such a position?
Thanks!
I’d use your contacts in the field.
I was given a conditional verbal offer at a tiny Boutique/Middle Market IB for an Equity associate role. They told me to complete an ER report, and if they liked the report they would give me an offer. After I completed the report and sent it to them, they suspended the project.
Should I contact them and request them to draw up an
agreement in writing before I do any additional work for them?
As you want, I can’t say
What would you advice? Because I don’t want to end up doing alot of work for free!
Good afternooon everyone!
I have recently graduated from a top 50 business school with decent grades. (B.S in Marketing) However, I want to pursue a career in Finance; ( you’re probably wondering why I decided to study marketing and not finance. Well, because, I was naive. I figured focusing in finance for my mba and marketing undergrad would
give me a competitive advantage, having a diverse curriculum. Blah blah.) Anyway, I have a few international fiance internships; micro finance in india, working at a major corporate bank in Eastern europe. A political internship in the middle east. But, I don’t have much “hands on” experience. A majority of interviews I have been on, many of the interviewers were quite impressed. Though, I have never landed a single job nor a free internship. I don’t know what to do at this point. At this point I’m going to have to be a delivery boy to pay off my loans. Someone help! Need some advice anything???
I’d change your thoughts and think about what value you can add to a company and why they should hire you. Research companies you are interested in working for and start contacting people who are senior in the company and tell them what value you can add to them. Convince them to hire you
Hi Brian, thanks for the great article!
I’m a freshman in university with very little (practically non-existent) technical experience in IBD. Do you think it’s possible to get any kind of position through lots of networking/cold-calling/cold-emailing? I have tonnes of leadership experience and a high GPA, and I also worked at a PWM office last year (doing administrative work only). Is technical knowledge something firms require even in freshmen?
I’d join an investment club and network within the school to see if you can get any internships through your professors/career center/network at school first, then I’d try cold-calling
Thanks Nicole for the reply! I tried using my networks but so far nothing has turned up. Do you suggest cold-calling over informational interviews in my case (freshman with little to no technical knowledge)?
Yes but really know your pitch and why finance
Hi M&I,
I am a college sr at an extremely non target school. I am a triple major in finance, economics, and marketing. My finance background consists of a fortune 500 insurance company as a claims operations intern and a smaller boutique (aprox $500million under management) financial planning/wealth management firm. I know it is extremely late in the recruiting season, but over past two days I have sent out around 100 or so resumes to IBD and HF/PE firms. Is there anything I can do to make myself become more appealing to prospective employers? I have been contacting directors or partners in firms if they do not have an address to email for careers. How else should I go about doing this? Also. Have a slight connection with the CFO of a rather large P/E firm and have talked to him several times on the phone over the past couple years but nothing ever seems to pan out. He told me I could not intern with his division because they are not able to pay a salary, should I offer to work for free? He told me that he is going to ask the CEO and COO of company if they have any opportunities but this was around 2 weeks ago, how long should I wait to try and contact him again? I do not want to come across as annoying but time is running out and as of right now I do not have anything lined up for after graduation in may.
(by slight connection I mean he is one of my cousins friends and he is big time, been partners in some extremely successful companies)
Yes you can contact him again.
Yes you can offer to work for free if you want to gain experience in PE
Is there anything else I should be doing this late in recruiting season? Currently just doing cold calls/emails and talking to people I have networked with.
Broaden your network. Join an investment club. Attend finance/M&A talks etc on campus. Hone your knowledge in Accounting and Finance. Visualize yourself getting the job you want.
When most people take unpaid internships, do they get academic credit? I just accepted an unpaid SA offer at a boutique. Is there anything I should do in order to protect myself legally (like draft up an offer letter with my uncle who is a lawyer, get academic credit from my school, etc.), or should I just relax and wait to start working? Thanks!
Sometimes they do, but there isn’t a whole lot you can do legally unless they go along with it. Maybe just ask them if you can get academic credit for it.
What if someone is unemployed, has no job offers and they’ve been out of school for a long time? Isn’t it better for someone to spend their free time volunteering than doing nothing?
Sure.
Hi Brian,
Great article. Two things:
1. Can you further elaborate that “most firms don’t like to take experienced people on for free, just due to legal/HR reasons and general principle”. I have +4 years of experience and am currently employed. However, I am considering a non-paid internship to switch career.
2. Can you add the date to the article, if possible.
Thank you
I second ‘J’s request to publish dates.
I am in the same situation, about 5+ years of experience and am contemplating working for free to switch careers. I was interviewed by GE and such, but it didn’t work out. Would it be appropriate to approach the HR Manager who interviewed me at GE to offer free work in my area of interest, Marketing/Product Development? The HRM obliged to my request for a conversation after I found out that I did not land the job, and told me that it wasn’t me; they hired an ‘internal candidate’ for his experience in doing that particular job. Maybe, she was trying to be nice, but still, she did not have to do it.
If it is, any pointers as to how (framing the email etc) to do so?
Thanks in advance.
Publish dates. Please refer to http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/qa/
I think you’re better off looking for opportunities elsewhere. Just thank her for her time and ask her to keep you in the loop if something comes up
I am a Senior at a top school. I am really interested AD&G Investment Banking and I worked in it this summer at a tiny boutique. I was looking to make a move into bigger firm (around 20 people or so). They did not take anyone from our school during FT recruiting. I live near the firm. I was going to offer to intern/work for free during my second semester. Is this a good idea?
Yes, I think this idea works. Working unpaid is not ideal, but it can get your foot in the door.
Need Advice! I went through full recruitment (FT Analyst) with a BB approximately 5 interviews for one of their IB groups. Ultimately did not get hired.
I have kept good relationships with the interviewers and am actually meeting a senior banker next week I met during the process. I wanted to propose either a summer internship opportunity (I’m in my final undergrad year); or, FT unpaid work upon graduation for a specific period of time to show them my work ethic and abilities.
Would appreciate your thoughts.
Since its a BB, I don’t know how much he can do because there’ll be quite a few policies and HR is likely to be involved. I’d still try proposing the summer intern opportunity though because he may be able to pull some strings. I wouldn’t propose FT unpaid work unless you’re very desperate, and this may make you seem desperate. I’d build a great relationship with him and show him how great of a candidate you are (in your conversations, your passion, etc). Perhaps he may know of friends who are hiring, and I’m sure he’ll be able to give you lots of tips and useful info re banking.
The relationship is there. From your experiences, would it be possible to move from a summer position directly into a full time analyst role? (Considering I would be done school).
Also how best to ask about the summer position given my circumstances of having interviewed for a ft position already?
It would be unusual to move from an intern role like that straight into a FT role unless you’re in Europe or another region where it’s common – but I’m sure people have done it before depending on the bank, group, and location.
Summer position: I would just be straightforward and say that you did speak with them in the fall and it didn’t work out, but you’re still very excited about them and would leap at any opportunity to interview for roles there.
Personally, I would probably just ask for full-time roles since it’s a large bank… internship and unpaid requests tend to work better at boutiques.
The relationship is there. From your experiences, would it be possible to move from a summer position directly into a full time analyst role? (Considering I would be done school).
Also how best to ask about the summer position given my circumstances of having interviewed for a ft position already?
Rising junior exploring boutique IB’s on the West Coast and just wondering but why the negativity for FT Partners?
Honestly, I don’t even remember – I think they had a bad reputation a few years ago (2009/2010) – not sure if that’s true any longer.
Hi Brian,
I’m a high school senior who’ll be going to a top-25 college this fall. I’m planning to major in business and go into trading (or possibly banking). As a junior, I couldn’t find any jobs in finance (paid or unpaid) so worked as a paid developer at a local government lab. Although I enjoyed being paid for my work, I didn’t gain any finance-related experience and my network didn’t really improve.
Anyway, I currently have two job offers for the upcoming summer: an unpaid SA position at a boutique investment bank and a paid position at the same government division I worked at last summer. I want to take unpaid SA job because its related to finance and could help me improve my network. I don’t have any finance connections and I’d like to acquire a few before I start college (to help me land a paid position as a freshman). In addition, I’m a bit sick of being a developer, lol, as its not the type of career I’d like to pursue in the long run.
Which opportunity is better in your opinion? Thanks in advance!
I also want to emphasize that my finance connections are essentially non-existent. I exhausted my network in my search for a summer job and I couldn’t find anyone remotely connected to the American financial industry.
This is why you need to network with the right crowd. Having an IB internship will increase your circle of people in finance and give you more opportunities in the field.
The unpaid position is undoubtedly the best because it provides you the experience IBs look for on your resume and most likely gives you more opportunity to network with bankers, especially since you’re not too pleased with being a developer. As long as you can finance yourself, I’d go for the unpaid role. Since you’re only a high school senior, you’re already ahead of the game vs many. Good luck!
Thanks for responding! I also wanted to ask: do you think that the SA articles on M&I would be applicable to interns at boutique banks?
Which articles are you referring to?
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-summer-analyst-work/
Yes, though the size and scale of the deals may be different because boutiques may not necessarily have the large scale of deals that BB will have exposure to. Some boutiques may also have smaller team which means that you may be able to gain more responsibility and learn more. But the nature of the work will be similar.
Great article!
Actually I am planning to seek an unpaid internship in a well-known international IB in HK. This idea is from my uncle who is the VP of the international IB in San Francisco. He told me I can use his name when talking to people in the IB in HK and act aggressively. Do you think I can get an unpaid internship in this way?
Yes this may increase your chances. It is best if you can ask your uncle to send you an email/introduce you to bankers he knows in HK. If you’re directly referred by your uncle, your chances may be higher because the bankers will likely give your uncle “face” by arranging an appointment/call with you at the minimum.
Thank you!Do you think I should go to talk to the vice presidents or the HR manager in the IB in HK?
I’d talk to the contacts whom your uncle knows and can refer you to, whether they are VPs or HR managers or not.
Yeah actually the worst part is my uncle does not know anyone in the branch in HK,but I will still have a try and go to the office and talk to people there.Thank you!
Can anyone comment on the New York School of Finance’s IB training program? The training program consists of an unpaid internship portion.
http://nyschooloffinance.com/
The program I am interested is called the “Advantage” program that they offer. It is a 3-month program where you attend classes at their Wall St. campus for 10 hours a week, then intern (unpaid) at a boutique bank they pair you up with for 70 hours a week.
The school’s rep. told me that they teach you all the modeling tools in the classroom and assist you with your internship work. They guarantee you an internship (unpaid) at a boutique if you sign up for the class. He also said that during your internship, you get more exposure to actual transactions and meaningful work and less monkey business.
The cost of the 3-month program is $14,000 (equivalent to a pro-rated tenure at an MBA program).
My question is: Do you guys think this is worth pursuing or is it better to take a cheaper training course and seek out my own internship afterwards? (whether paid or unpaid)
My undergraduate degree was in Biology at a very respectable but non-target west coast school. I am currently a Wealth Management Advisor at a big wirehouse firm. My GPA is low (2.9) due to financial/health constraints I had in college.
If you can afford the program, it may increase your chances of breaking into IB. If you have solid credentials and are confident that you can land an internship on your own, then perhaps you can just network a lot and land interviews that way. I haven’t had experience with other training courses so I can’t comment, but I think you’ll be in good hands if you were to join the program. I’d suggest you to speak with some of the instructors at the program and decide if it is a right fit for you.