How to Spin Your Way Into Anything, Unhelpful People When Networking, Living the Dream, and More Questions and Answers
I’ve seen a lot of “creative” comments and ideas in response to the articles on spinning your way to success in investment banking and networking – only problem is that some of these ideas are just plain bad.
While others could potentially work… if you spin them the right way.
Meanwhile, read even more about networking, living the dream, and my own secret plans for world domination below.
The Banker Formerly Known As Tiger Woods: How Much Can You Spin?
This one is going to work just like a reality TV show: each suggestion or idea gets a thumbs up or thumbs down with notes on what you should actually do (ok I guess they don’t do that last part on TV).
1. I’ve been a pro golfer for the past few years (since I graduated). Do you think I could spin this into having good “client relationship” skills and get into investment banking directly?
I’d bet no on this one, especially if you’ve been doing it for years. It’s just too different from sitting in a cubicle editing spreadsheets – you’d need to go to business school to make this type of move, and then get some kind of finance experience before you go.
2. I’ve had S&T internships but now I want to move into investment banking. Do you think I can spin my experience to make this happen?
Yes. Emphasize any long-term fundamental trading you’ve done, independent study on financial modeling / financial statements, relevant projects, and any time you’ve worked with clients in the past. If you have solid contacts in banking groups, this type of move is do-able.
3. By the time I start full-time recruiting, I’ll have had 3 separate investment banking internships over summers and the school year, and experience working on at least 5 deals. Do you think I could spin this into applying for Associate positions at private equity firms and hedge funds?
I like your thinking, but no. All these places are very structured in their recruiting, and they won’t take you as an Associate without full-time work experience. You could go for Analyst positions, though…
4. If I have no finance experience, can I still get internships? How can I use your resume template if I don’t have any “work experience?”
Yes, you can. If you don’t have “real” experience, then you should spin finance-related clubs/activities, as well as any seminars or case competitions you’ve been in as “work & leadership experience.” Even if something only lasted a few days you could still write more about that than real work.
5. I’m going to a community college right now – can I still make this look good and get investment banking internships?
Difficult – I’ve never heard of anyone going from a community college to a banking internship. Your best bet is to transfer to a 4-year school instead. Doesn’t have to be Harvard, but it should be somewhere where at least a few people go into finance.
6. Is it ok to omit jobs from my resume if they won’t help with recruiting at all? Or is that lying?
Depends on what you’re omitting, but usually it’s fine as long as you’re not leaving out major internships / full-time experience. Part-time jobs, activities, etc. can all be omitted. If it won’t help you with recruiting, leave it out unless you’ve got nothing else to write about.
7. I was working in PE, but got laid off, and now I’m applying to both private equity and investment banking jobs. How can I convince investment bankers that I’m actually serious about banking?
This one’s a tough sell. No matter what you say, no banker will believe you 100% – you can list all the usual reasons (wanting to close more deals, more exposure) and then point out that it would be easier for you to go back into PE, so if you weren’t serious why would you be applying to IB?
8. I’m at a Top 5 school doing a graduate program there right now, but I’ve realized I don’t want to be in academia, so I’m thinking of dropping out and pursuing investment banking jobs full-time. How can I spin this in a positive light?
I think you’re getting ahead of yourself there. Why drop out right now if you’re attending a top school? Use the name to contact alumni and banks and get interviews, then think about dropping out if something works out.
How to Deal with Unhelpful People When Networking
Sometimes you reach someone who just doesn’t care and won’t help you. Most of the time, you should cut your losses and move on rather than wasting hours on 1 person.
9. What do you do when you reach an unhelpful HR person who won’t put you through to real bankers when you’re cold-calling?
If he/she keeps saying “no” no matter what you try and will not put you in touch with any decision-makers, try again the next day/next week and try to speak with someone different. Getting the right person makes more of a difference than what you say.
10. Let’s say I went to an information session but didn’t have time to talk to everyone there. However, I have a list and contact information for all the bankers who I attended – can I follow-up with them, even if I didn’t speak to them there?
You could do this but it’s hard to have a solid “reason why” if you didn’t speak to them at all. Maybe do some research first and find something specific about their background you want to ask about, say you got their information from the session, and follow-up like that.
11. You write a lot about networking, but is it helpful at all for PE? It seems like the private equity recruiting process is dominated by headhunters, so how much can networking really do?
It’s still helpful for PE, but it doesn’t work as well as at it does at banks because PE firms are tiny by comparison. You have to be a lot more targeted and only go for specific industries / geographies / investment sizes or you’ll spend a lot of time chasing leads that never pan out.
12. You’ve said that the phone and meeting in-person are always better than email, but isn’t it weird to immediately call someone I met at an information session?
You should probably still email first unless he/she specifically said to call. It’s not necessarily weird if you spoke for a long time and got to know the person really well, but otherwise email to remind them who you are first.
Living the Dream
No, not banking. The real dream.
13. You say that we should travel to a new country and spend a few months there doing something interesting, but that’s easier said than done. How do I find anything to do if I’m by myself? I can’t imagine what I would do alone in a different country.
You need to make friends and establish a social circle ASAP. Four concrete methods I’ve used before:
- Go on Facebook and look for events/parties/clubs in that region, then show up at events and meet other people there.
- Look on Meetup.com for groups you might be interested in, and meet people there.
- Ask your hotel staff for recommendations based on what you want to do/learn.
- Just talk to random people. In the US people are scared of strangers, but meeting people randomly is more common in other parts of the world.
Similar to networking, this is scary at first but after awhile it becomes paint-by-numbers.
14. If I follow your plan and learn a language somewhere else for a few months, could I leverage this in interviews or for recruiting purposes?
Unless you’re better than the average native speaker, you can’t use a language for business purposes. You can get pretty good conversationally in only a few months, but you won’t be able to understand a lecture on quantum superposition or the ramifications of a multi-lateral nuclear arms disarmament treaty and learn 100,000 words in 3 months.
Anything you learn is a nice bullet point to have and is good to talk about in interviews, but you won’t be able to work in another office unless you’re at a very high level.
15. Could I use experience living abroad to prove that I have “good communication skills” in interviews? Can I use that as something that stands out about me vs. everyone else?
This could be part of your pitch, but you need to back it up with specific examples. Just saying, “Of course I have good communication skills, I’ve lived in 10 countries before!” doesn’t resonate too much.
16. Can you create another site on how you can travel around the world while actually making money, like you do? I’m bored of finance and want to do this instead.
I’ve thought about it, but not right now – too busy with this site and related projects. Maybe next year.
Top-Secret Business Questions & Answers
For some reason lately I’ve received more questions than usual on “the business” of this site. So here we go.
17. You mentioned something new that would be coming soon. Are you starting a forum?
No. I only do something if existing solutions are poor / non-existent and if it will actually help you. There’s no way that I could improve upon WallStreetOasis, so there’s no point.
So far no one has successfully guessed this new addition (which will be coming next year now).
18. Why did you shift away from resumes and interviews and focus more on modeling and networking this year?
Three reasons:
- There was approximately 503,676% more demand for those topics vs. resume editing / interview practice.
- 90% of what I did for resume edits is encapsulated with a simple template right here. Remember that 80/20 rule?
- It’s almost impossible to “teach” someone how to interview well because so much of it comes down to non-verbal communication.
19. You’ve already written so much here, what do you plan to do in the future? It seems like most topics have been covered.
Good point. In the future it will switch to mostly case studies and interviews with readers – there’s only so much you can write about the basics of resumes, networking, and interviewing.
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Tags: cold-calling, follow-up, golf, investment banking, investment banking information sessions, private equity jobs, private equity recruiting, understanding investment banking
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Which language is more useful in M%A arabic or spanish?
For sure spanish….
Look how big Latin America is….
1 billion people in China
1 billion people in India
But yeah, Latin America’s somewhat big too, I guess…
I didn’t get…
was that sarcasm?
I went through summer analyst recruiting last year (tried graduating early), but that didn’t work out, so I’ll be going through it again this upcoming winter. Obviously, some of the bankers that I met last year still remember me this year. How will they perceive me when screening resumes and interviews? For example, would they view me positively that I being persistent and trying to break in again?
It depends how you position yourself… if you have something new and have done something impressive between then and now, it won’t be an issue. You need to emphasize what has changed and how you’re more prepared now.
Haha… Oh, I know one of the questions there.
Glimmer of hope Brian. Glimmer of hope! That’s why we’re all in this rat race for.
What happened to that hedge fund you were going to start?
Talked to some folks in the field – mostly small-time hedge funds. Unilaterally agreed that it’s best to start later in one’s career – with a bigger fund size. Some of them regretted starting early. Took their advice.
For now, decided to enjoy the personal trading revenue.
my friend was telling me that i should be pretty good with excel vba and macro, how important are these in investment banking? (especially at the analyst level)
You do use macros occasionally, but you just need to know the basics… VBA usage in banking is VERY rare. The math / Excel skills required are quite simple.
I would NOT go around saying you know VBA and/or Macro very well. You end up being the point person in the entire group for making stupid things. There are so many other skill sets you can say you do well.
Im a freshman and I got an internship at “private equity” at blackstone (dad connections). dunno what that involves but it sounds cool. Would it set me up for a good sophomore internship?? really want to break into investment banking!
Sounds good to me
Hi really appreciate the site, really helpful. Great service you’re doing!
Quick question – what does due diligence entail? I’ve heard it refer to everything from basic company research to going on-site to confirm numbers. Would something like researching customer reviews, etc. to make sure a buyer’s claims are accurate be considered due diligence?
Basically anything can be considered “due diligence” – it’s just examining every single aspect of a company. So yes, researching customer reviews would fall under that category.
Thanks! That seems pretty broad, but I’m guessing something like just going in CapIQ to copy revenue numbers for a company profile wouldn’t fit under due diligence because it’s not “deep” enough?
Yes I would not list that
Do you need any volunteers or help for your new addition?
If you have an interesting success story sure, email me and we can talk. Also want to interview people who worked in different groups / regions.
could you comment on ibtraining.com? is this a viable alternative to an MBA for those with several years or so experience and spent their time on the CFA?
It’s just another training program. It is NOT a substitute for an MBA, nor is the CFA, nor any of my programs, nor anything else. An MBA is $150K and 2 years of time… and guaranteed recruiting at top schools.
In the US I know that candidates are chosen through superdays where they have lots of interviews in a row. I am just wondering whether these superdays ever involve group exercises, presentations, case studies or any form of testing? They have all these things in Europe for final round investment banking interviews but I’ve heard that they don’t in the US. You guys are lucky if that’s the case.
Sometimes there are case studies, modeling tests, and presentations in interviews in the US, but I’ve never heard of group exercises. I think that’s unique to Europe and the assessment center setup they have for interviews…
Off topic, but would a private equity internship before I start my BB analyst position help me transition to a PE shop later on? It would give me a talking point about how my experience at the PE shop helped lead me in the direction of PE after investment banking…
Yeah it would help