Reader Q&A: Sales & Trading Resumes, Finance From Pharmaceuticals And The China Angle
In this week’s edition of reader Q&A, I cover questions about tailoring an investment banking resume for sales & trading, breaking into finance from pharmaceuticals and the relative importance of international experience, in this case experience in China. I continue to receive many investment banking summer internship questions as well as lifestyle and “breaking in” questions so stay tuned for more on those.
Tailoring A Resume For Sales & Trading
“Found your website through ibankingoasis forums and it has definitely helped me shape up my resume. Before I read this site, I did not have any of the “bankify” qualities you mentioned. Definitely top notch.
I’m currently a junior in college and am still deciding between investment banking and sales & trading. I’m wondering, do you have any expertise on what a more sales & trading oriented resume should include? I am reading through my resume now and it lacks numbers. Most of the work I have done in the past cannot be quantified.
Finally, would you recommend a resume editing service such as the one provided by Vault?”
Thanks for your comments – I’m glad you have found my site helpful.
There’s not much of a difference between sales & trading resumes and investment banking resumes for entry-level positions. If you are just out of school and have only had internships for work experience, sales & trading recruiters would look for the same qualities that investment banking recruiters look for: leadership, ability to work hard, and interest in finance/business.
The key difference is that sales & trading is more numbers-oriented than investment banking is. When I interviewed for hedge fund jobs they all asked me if I had experience gambling, playing poker, etc. because the gambling and trading skillsets are very similar. In sales & trading interviews they will ask probability questions, whereas in investment banking interviews this is rare unless you get a brain teaser.
If you can’t quantify much of your previous work experience, I would either think creatively for a way to do so, or get across your comfort/familiarity with numbers and finance in some other way, using either your interests or coursework.
You also want to express that you can “think like a trader” – e.g., weigh risk and reward properly. This is another big question that will come up in interviews. Even if you can’t quantify your previous work, is there a way you could express your ability to properly consider risk and reward? If so, I would add this theme to your resume.
In my experience most resume editing services are not worth it – they can make very generic/basic improvements, certainly, but the best way to improve is to contact your friends in finance and ask them to review your resume and offer suggestions.
That said, my own investment banking resume review service is definitely worth it, and comes with a 100% money-back guarantee. :)
Breaking Into Investment Banking From Pharmaceuticals
“Thank you for a wonderful blog. It is a tremendous resources and I really appreciate you taking the time out to answer everyone’s questions. I have a question that is more specific than those covered on your blog, and I would really appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
My short-term goal obviously is to enter investment banking. I love to read about deals. I want to do deals. My background is in Biochemistry and Biotechnology, and I have 2 years of experience doing Business Development in the pharmaceutical industry. I do some valuation work and deal structuring, similar to what investment bankers do, but not to that scale.
What is my next step to enter investment banking or private equity? Should I get an MBA or do I already have enough experience? Thanks in advance!”
Thanks for your kind words. I think you have a good background to break into investment banking. Having done Business Development, you understand valuations and forecasting, both of which are very important in finance.
However, since you’ve already done the job for 2 years, banks may be hesitant to hire you as a 1st year investment banking analyst, but may not be ready to hire you as a 2nd or 3rd year given that you haven’t worked in the industry before.
With your background, getting an MBA and then going into banking from there is definitely one route you could take – you would be out of work for 2 years, but could come in as an Associate instead.
If you want to work at a bulge bracket, you should probably do this and get an MBA. However, if you want to get into banking as soon as possible, I would recommend starting to contact headhunters and friends in the industry and focus on getting hired at a middle-market or boutique investment bank, for several reasons:
- It’s easier to work at one of those places and they hire far more people from non-standard backgrounds.
- They haven’t been affected by the credit crunch as much as the bulge brackets and are still hiring people.
- You can easily lateral from one of these to a bigger bank after a year there if you’ve done well. Or you can stay if you like it there.
It’s a tradeoff between time and prestige – do you wait for a few more years of experience plus an MBA to have a good shot at getting into a bulge bracket, or do you jump in now at the risk of not having as prestigious a name?
That’s one that I can’t answer for you because it depends on your goals and background.
Do Investment Bankers Place Importance On International (China) Experience?
“Thanks very much for all your helpful and informative posts. I’m looking for summer internships at bulge brackets, but it’s tough because my GPA is only around 3.5. I’m really worried that I’m not going to get first rounds as a result. This past summer I worked in China and it’s clear that I know the language and Chinese business well, but I’m not sure if this is enough to help.
I only want to work in New York, not Asia. I know that for NY, Chinese doesn’t really matter. I’m just wondering if there’s any need to play up my Chinese background in order to get interviews for summer internships.”
I think you’re overly concerned about getting first-round interviews for summer internships. Your GPA is fine – the bigger concern is the market this year, as many firms have slowed down on hiring with the looming recession. Investment banking summer internships should stay relatively safe, though.
That said, your international experience in China will help you a great deal in the recruiting process – you need to play up your China background with everything you’ve got. Make sure everything on your resume says “China”, “Chinese business,” “fluent in Mandarin/Cantonese” in some shape or form.
Bankers, just like anyone else, follow trends and do whatever’s hot at the time. Right now, China is the hottest area internationally and if you can convince them you’re the expert, you will stand a much higher chance of getting interviews/offers.
One of my friends at work was similar to yourself – he was born and raised in China, came to the US when he was young and is fluent in written/spoken Mandarin. He has used this background to get a whole host of positions he didn’t really deserve based on his own merits, all because he played the “China angle” successfully.
Even if you want to work in NY, it doesn’t matter because any language and international experience is a positive and Chinese is a HUGE positive right now.
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wow, then i guess i’m really hot for banks now// since i know mandarin chinese, cantonese, and japanese.
and furthermore, i’m an analyst looking over fixed income and debt market.
but i’m not in banking now, i’m actually in Reuters :)
ikemen, if you have all those language skills, you should be able to get a banking job anywhere. :) (Disclaimer: I make no guarantees) I only knew 1 out of those 3 languages and it still helped me a ton in interviews.
I know 3 dialect in Chinese- Mandarin, Cantonese, fujianese and conversational Japanese…and somehow its not working for me the way you guys have mentioned. Whats going on!!!?
This was written about 3-4 years ago and was intended as a joke (indicated by the smiley face). http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/languages-investment-banking/
Hi, I stumbled upon this website and have found it to be tremendously helpful, but my situation is a little different. I am an American but have a Bachlor’s degree in Chemistry and an MBA in Finance, both from India, both from extremely reputable companies. I just moved back to the US after living in Europe and India, and have landed a job as an Investment Adviser in Boston, which has a large marketing and sales component. I don’t like my job. I interned at Morgan Stanley Mumbai in Investment Banking and loved it, but just couldn’t land a job in Banking. What are my options? Should I duke it out at this job to gain some experience, or keep hunting for a new job in Investment Banking? Please advise.
Regards,
Vishal Arora
I would advise you to stay there for at least a year or so, it’s hard to find something else without at least a year of experience. Once you do start looking, go for smaller firms and boutiques – much easier to break into those, especially with the way the market is now.
Hi, I just wanted to ask another question? What can I do to get into a trading role? I have been actively following the markets for about 3 years now, invested a little and have been making modest gains even in this downturn. What is the “normal process” of getting into a trading role if I have an MBA in Finance but no actual trading experience with any firm yet. I just wanted your opinion.
If you already have an MBA but no trading experience, it’s going to be difficult to just jump in directly. I would look at smaller hedge funds and “prop shops” and pitch your quantitative background and interest in the markets; hard to pinpoint a “standard process” but I would focus on networking and even cold-calling some of these smaller places.
If you were just getting out of MBA you could still use campus recruiting but that’s a bit more difficult now.
My MBA is actually from India (a top school there, ranked 4th in India amongst the Business Schools), so I guess that is also another point that makes it difficult to get a more appropriate job. Thanks very much though, you have been really helpful. I look forward to reading as much as I can here.
Is it a bad idea to put on your IB resume that you have an interest in trading stock options and FX? I realise this would be perfect for a trading/hedge fund resume, but I’m looking at ibanking….
Not sure if this would actually work against me as trading options/FX is obviously a more short term/speculative (almost gambling) strategy which as I understand is not consistent with the nature of ibanking – eg longer term dcf company valuations and modeling etc.
It’s fine to list, just make sure you can back it up intelligently and discuss it in some depth otherwise it could work against you in interviews.
Hi,
I’m a quite good poker player and had play this game for many hours on the internet. I’m very interested in the mathematical aspect of the game. I’m doing mathematical engineering study, specialized in statisticals, and would like to obtain a summer internship in a good bank/hedge funds in US or UK.
Do you think i should write on my resume my interest for poker ? In my country (France) this game has still a bad image even if it’s get better little by little… I read in this article that you were asked if you play it, so i wonder.
Thanks for your great website!
Hmm, I would probably leave it off if you’re applying to anything in France, but a brief mention for anything in countries outside that is probably fine.
Great post! So I’ve heard that breaking into S&T is a lot more ‘formal’ and ‘merit-based’ as opposed to IB. Is this true? Is networking less vital in breaking into S&T than it is for IB? Can people actually get S&T jobs by applying online?
Also, how quantitative is S&T, I’m a Math major (small liberal arts college) and I’d say I’m a numbers person, ie I like stats, probability, i play poker pretty frequently,etc. How much math do you really do in S&T? Lastly if I have no banking/finance work experience by the time I graduate, how much is that going to hurt me in breaking into S&T?
This podcast and transcript/article address your questions:
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/sales-trading-vs-investment-banking-part-1-recruiting/
Hello,
Great info so far. I’m currently in a sales management role, and have been doing sales and business development for the past 6 years. I’d like to break into finance for greater earning opportunity, and to really start nailing down a solid career. What would be some of the more basic fields/areas to start in after transitioning from a sales career.
Thanks again for all of your help!
The easiest would be sales & trading and specifically sales at a large bank… if you do a search you will find relevant podcasts on the topic.
I got into a low target in long island new york.I have not work experience, but still got into an MBA program. Should I attend? or try and get experience first? Im worried that if i do leave the academic environment, I may never come back…and I am concerned about being 140k in debt…any thoughts?
If it is not a top school it is worthless for getting into IB, and if you have no work experience you have no chance so it is a giant waste of time and money.
Hey,
I realize that you are offering IB interview guide, so just want to ask whether you are offering trading job interview guide within this package? Cuz I wanted to apply for trading job. Thanks! Great site by the way.
It’s not really applicable for S&T so I wouldn’t recommend it.
Hi,
I believe that there’s a difference between sales and trading at Ibanking? So, are the interviews for both positions conducted commonly? What if I want to interview only for a sales position? What should I do? Also, what are the GPA cutoffs generally for a Sales position at a big bank like Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley?
Please let me know.
Thank you.
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/sales-trading-vs-investment-banking-part-1-recruiting/
I also grew up in China and I’m fluent in mandarin. I mentioned this in most interviews but barely anyone cared so I didn’t know that it could be useful. How should I use this experience exactly? I also interned in China and I mentioned all these on both my resume and interviews, but how does your friend use his background to “get a whole host of positions he didn’t really deserve based on his own merits”? Thanks!!!
He was interviewing for firms that specifically wanted to expand in China. Don’t remember the details as this post was written 3-4 years ago
Hey Brian,
How much does a low GPA hurt my chances of getting into sales & trading vs. investment banking? I’m a trading kinda guy, as I’m a regular poker player, I’m the CEO of my own stock-trading related start-up and I know all the fundamentals of finance and economics – I just had a terrible first year (<2.0 gpa) for various personal reasons (I'm going into my sophomore year).
Thanks a ton for all your help.
Great, I think your experience is amazing and I know of great investors who have horrible GPA. Just focus on your “entrepreneurial” side, knowledge of the market and passion in trading. You’ll get a job. The low GPA – try to come up w reasons to explain why it is so low and focus on your strengths and why you would make an amazing trader. Good luck!
1. If your GPA is pass or credit average, would you advise to include that in your resume?
2. I’ve been playing online poker professionally last 1.5years ($70k earnings), I’ve just completed my degree and am looking for a trading job. I don’t have great grades nor have work experience, so would you say that I would have to emphasize my skills in poker on my resume? Should I disclose how much I’ve earn so it looks more legit?
3. Given my situation, and assuming I do write a very good resume and cover letter, do you think I would have a chance in landing a trading job?
1. No but I think most banks require candidates to put their GPA on their resume.
2. Yes. Yes.
3. Yes, as long as you pitch yourself well, and can really sell your “poker” experience because it pertains to trading. Your GPA doesn’t matter if you really know how to trade, have a passion for the markets AND can illustrate the above two to the recruiters.
Hi guys,
I’m a 2.0 GPA engineering sophomore with relevant entrepreneurial/stock-trading experience, and I’d really like to nail down some kind of a financial internship for next summer. My opportunity for networking has sort of died, so what can I do now to try and secure a job? Do I have a chance in hell?
Cheers,
Matt
Why has your opportunity in network died? You create your own networking opportunities. They never die – one lead falls through another one pops up.
Well, I mean, isn’t it too late to start networking if I need a job for next summer?
It is never too late to start networking
Hello everybody,
I find this website amazing. I am more interested in trading rather than investment banking, but I really learnt a lot from the articles here. I just want to ask a question, do you know any equivalent site (in terms of quality) for those that are interested by trading?
Thanks
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/groups/ go to “Sales & Trading” and “Proprietary Trading” there