Weekly Reader Q&A: Investment Banking And Ego, Just How Male Dominated Is Finance, And Excel Mistakes In Front Of The MD
Rather than focusing on one coherent theme in this week’s session of reader Q&A, I decided to pick some of the more interesting questions I’ve received recently and address them here. Completely random questions on unrelated topics always make for spectacular writing. :)
Investment Banking And Ego
“One question I’ve always wondered about whenever I read about investment banking is whether it boosts your ego. Is everyone working at a bulge bracket basically a miniature version of Gordon Gekko?
And as an Analyst, do you have to assert yourself to avoid being trampled on? I know you have to have a decent ego to even get the job, but do you have a bigger ego now compared to when you started? Or at least a thicker skin? It would be great if you could dedicate a post to this question.”
That’s a great, great question and one I’ve never heard before. It’s an interesting topic and I may indeed devote a post to it, assuming I can come up with something intelligent to say. :) (note: this has not happened yet, which is why it is being featured in Q&A for now)
I do think you develop a thicker skin and become more assertive after doing banking, both of which are probably good things. I was not at all assertive before doing this job, but now I’m much more direct with people when I need something. Sometimes I can come across as rude or impatient, though, so it’s a double-edged sword.
As far as whether or not it boosts your ego, that’s hard to say. Some days you feel like you’re on top of the world, and other days you want to crawl into a hole and hide.
Sometimes you do feel like you’re Gordon Gekko, even though you’re just an Analyst, and other times you get assigned random stupid work like formatting Excel, crossing out names in documents and even manual labor (I’m not making this one up… full story coming later) and you feel like a peon.
On the whole, though, I would say it boosts your ego simply because you’re around so many important people and get to witness such high-level business discussions.
Hopefully I can write more on this topic soon. As one of my friends observed, banking is one of the few jobs that changes peoples’ personalities, so I think there’s a lot more to explore here.
Finance: Just How Male Dominated Is It?
“In your post How To Get An Investment Banking Job you wrote: “No one at an investment bank will spend more than 2 seconds on your resume (unless you are a hot girl and attach a picture, I mentioned banks were male dominated and chauvinistic, right?).”
As a female, this made me wonder how much my looks and gender will factor into banks’ decisions to hire me. If investment banking and finance in general are really that male dominated, should I try to dress up for interviews? Are people really hired based on appearance, or is that all a myth?”
Well, that line was kind of a joke. Banking is indeed male dominated, but I don’t think it’s so ridiculous that females should attach their pictures to their resumes or anything.
To be honest, I think attractive people (whether males or females) are at an advantage in the recruiting process. And this is not just true in finance – I’ve heard the same conclusion across the board regardless of the industry.
In terms of interview attire, looking nice is good but I would not go all out and wear provocative clothing or anything. Just by being female you will be at an advantage; if you try too hard it might end up backfiring if you happen to get a female interviewer.
Finance is still very male dominated but that is definitely changing. The workplace is becoming more diverse, and I know of quite a few females who have very senior positions at banks.
In 2001, for example, Izumi Kobayashi made waves when she became the first female President of Merrill Lynch Japan. And that’s in Japan, where the workplace is even more male dominated, so things are changing.
Excel Mistakes In Front Of The MD
“I’m a first year Analyst at a bulge bracket bank. My second month into the job, I completely screwed up an Excel model for my MD. Since I was new to the job, the file looked a bit odd to me but I didn’t see anything blatantly wrong with it.
Before showing it to him, I had some friends check it over and had an Associate look at it. Everyone said it was fine, but as soon as the MD saw the printout he saw a massive mistake in one cell and had a temper tantrum.
Ever since then, no matter how good my work has been, the MD has always looked at me like I’m an idiot.
Am I doomed to get bottom-tier bonus? Is there anything I can do to save myself?”
That’s a tough one. Assuming you can’t switch and work for a different MD, I don’t think there’s much you can do beyond what you’re already doing. People tend to have a short memory in banking so I’m surprised they’re still making a fuss over that. First impressions are important, but 2 months into the job is well after the “first impressions” period ends.
If it continues to be a problem, I might try to switch groups (probably difficult at this point); I don’t know if I would bring it up directly to the MD because that would just make him remember the incident again.
If it’s any consolation, I screwed up plenty of times in front of my MD and he often looked at me like I was an idiot but I still got top bonus last year, so you might be worried over nothing.
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Hmm… You said “Just by being female you will be at an advantage”… Can you elaborate? (*crosses finger* please let me not get a female recruiter, please let me not get a female recruiter =D)
Hi Jane (and others reading this),
Having set up & conducted informational interviews fairly regularly for the past 2.5 months, I can tell you that in my personal experience: the women I’ve contacted have been much more helpful than men. (I am female) I’ve been using the ‘requesting information interviews template’ from this site (great, by the way) with the following results:
Women:
-1 in office JP Morgan Risk Management, followed up and connected me to the lady below
-1 near office/coffee JP Morgan Equity Research
-1 Deutsche Bank in office, (she’d worked at Goldman for 10 combined years prior to, so it was a double-hit because she was also an expert in their culture); also, she’s become a mentor
-1 Goldman Sachs lunch date (I was able to follow up a few weeks later at my school’s GS firmwide presentation, where she was one of the speakers)
-1 Moelis in office, follow up
Men:
-1 Blackstone, near office coffee
-1 small hedge fund/trading house, coffee, no follow up
-1 lawyer (I was referred to by a PE fund principal, alumnus of my uni) who specializes in PE/VC, M&A, restructuring, etc, and has a lot of contacts
The list is not exhaustive. I’ve had more phone interviews with men, they’ve been very helpful as well, but all the women I’ve contacted have been much more willing to meet in person, and continue the relationship. I think because there’s so few women out there in the banking world, they’re interested to see if you have what it takes and to guide you on ‘soft skills’ that you need to be successful (i.e. as mentioned elsewhere on this site, don’t go the skanky secretary route, grow a thick skin, etc).
Women have been the most receptive, followed by men that were ~hippies in their previous lives and still hold that worldview (i went to an ivy that produces a lot of these types, who suit up and go to work after graduation, but still have their birkenstocks and pink floyd t-shirt tucked away somewhere in their closet). Openness, free love (replace “love” with “recruiting advice/contacts”).
Of course, this is a non-representative sample, so take it with a grain of salt.
On a separate note, to Brian:
My GPA is low, but I have a strong, varied science background and can speak articulately about why finance. I’m looking at BBs (healthcare/pharma groups), Moelis, VC firms.
I saw something elsewhere about “commodity candidates” [http://news.efinancialcareers.co.uk/Blogs_ITEM/newsItemId-9745], where if you don’t have a technical advantage, (by which I think meant financial modeling skills, internship experience, etc) your enthusiasm and hunger are key.
A few questions:
1) Am I completely insane for looking at BBs? I talked to a woman who worked at Goldman middle office for 10 years, who didn’t have a degree bc she’d failed her accounting exams. [I was at a HF industry event, UK, just wandering around and introducing myself to people who seemed friendly, and I met her, got her card, followed up and set up a phone informational interview] she said she knew a man worked there who referred her, and she had 6 interviews which is on the low end for goldman. So it CAN happen. But I think it’s a bit like the lottery (I mean, that’s a path to financial security, just not a very likely one)
2) should i focus on the biotech/life sciences VC people and see if i can get an extended placement/internship, then possibly a full time offer? there, my enthusiasm/passion is genuine (I would be looking at sell-side banking as a stepping stone to late stage VC or PE, which I dont think MDs like to hear: “hi, what are the exit opps from your group?”). And with no previous banking experience, a bio background with a shaky gpa, i think enthusiasm is my only asset
1) Depends on your background… if you have solid internships and have networked a lot, not really. Worth a shot at least.
2) That could be a good strategy – the only issue is that it’s hard to get into VC without prior experience but local firms may be more open to the idea.
Awesome, thanks for sharing. Interesting observations.
Hi Brian,
I just wanted to tell you about an experience I just had and see what you think about it.
I’m working as a summer intern in a small boutique in the south of Europe. I overheard one of the directors complaining about the fact that all the powerpoint presentations sent to clients had different formats. Trying to be helpful and constructive, I decided that I could make a good suggestion and told him that maybe the firm should consider outsourcing the powerpoint formatting to India like most banks do.
Right after my comment, he told me that it was a dumb idea and that banks like Goldman Sachs take graduates from Wharton to India where they do the formatting. I told him that he was wrong, and that if they did that they wouldnt be cutting costs. Clearly, what banks do is that they outsource to India because labour is cheaper….he got really pissed, said I was stupid and told me that no 19 year old knew more than a guy that had been working in IBD for the past 12 years and then he left.
What do you think?
Note: I know that this is not really related to the subject of the article, but I figured that the topic resembled my little anectode the best.
I wouldn’t argue with your superior over something like that, it doesn’t matter who’s right – you just don’t argue over things like that that don’t relate to a client or deal.