Private Banking: Make Bank without Selling Your Soul or Imprisoning Yourself in a Cubicle 80 Hours per Week?
“I’ll miss you a lot, but it’s a good call to move to private banking – that’s the best way to meet rich guys.”
I was about to leave the institutional sales department at my old bank, and my supervisor was giving me the proper send-off.
Girls in finance might have the gold-digger reputation, but I didn’t get into private banking because I wanted to meet rich guys – I got in because I was in the right place at the right time.
Little did I know what I had gotten myself into…
Private Banking: What You Do
I had received a 3-month notice at my old bank when I refused to transfer to a division that the department head wanted me to transfer to – so I had to find something else quickly or leave.
I interviewed across all departments and even different banks, and landed an offer as a relationship manager at a private bank.
I ended up not staying too long, but learned enough to tell you all about private banking – from what you do to the different roles to how to break in to how much you get paid.
What is Private Banking (PB)?
The private banking division at an investment bank manages assets for high net worth (HNW) individuals. You can read that as, “You’re rich but have no time to invest your money – let us make investment decisions for you, and we’ll collect a fee for those services.”
Usually these HNW individuals are worth over $5 million USD at the bulge bracket banks, but sometimes lower net worth individuals can also sign up depending on the group.
Teams are usually split into those that manage regular HNW clients and ones that manage ultra HNW clients – no, the “ultra” ones don’t have superpowers, but they do have financial assets of more than $30 million USD.
As you might imagine, the ultra HNW clients tend to be more demanding and banks devote more resources to wining, dining, and advising them. The minimum account size for PB clients is around $2 million USD, while the minimum account size for ultra HNW clients might be around $10 million USD.
Private Banking / Private Wealth Management vs. Asset Management
In PB / PWM, the money comes from wealthy individuals, while in asset management (AM) it comes from institutions – the likes of Fidelity, pension funds, insurance companies, sovereign wealth funds, and so on.
Roles in Private Banking
The two main roles are investment professionals and relationship managers (RM) – investment professionals manage clients’ money and recommend products, while RMs manage the relationships, respond to clients’ requests, and also sell products to clients.
It’s similar to the split between execution and relationship management in investment banking, or the industry vs. product group distinction.
RMs and investment professionals usually attend client meetings together and support one another when answering clients’ questions.
How Do Private Banks Make Money?
As you might expect, private bankers make money from fees charged to clients – but there’s more to it than that.
First off, they sell managed accounts (also known as controlled or discretionary accounts), which are professionally managed and can be personalized to cater to clients’ needs – banks charge a fee for this depending on the size of the account and get recurring revenue since the fees are collected each month or each quarter.
Private banking clients also have brokerage accounts, which allow the bank to earn money by selling products such as IPOs and secondary offerings – so if a PB client wanted to buy shares of LinkedIn’s IPO, private bankers would coordinate with the equity capital markets team to ensure that the client received a fair allocation.
Then there are other services like estate planning, income tax planning, and philanthropic planning – so the fee parade never halts.
Private Banking vs. Investment Banking
One common, yet incorrect line of thought is that private banking and investment banking are completely separate – nothing could be further from the truth.
There’s a ton of overlap because many HNW clients want direct access to the investment bank’s products – IPOs, secondary offerings, bond issuances, and even access to the most exclusive hedge funds and private equity funds. So private bankers must work with investment bankers to ensure that their clients can invest in all of those.
And PB clients – many of whom are business owners – might also want advice on restructuring or selling their businesses and may contact investment bankers to get their advice.
There’s even more overlap in Asia because family businesses dominate the IPO market – so private bankers work closely with investment bankers to make sure that their banks win new IPO mandates.
Breaking Into Private Banking
So now you know something about what you do in private banking, how you make money, and the difference between private banking, investment banking, and asset management.
Now, how do you break in?
My Own Story
I broke into private banking by building contacts throughout the investment bank – I only had 3 months, so I focused on places with specific positions available.
I was lucky because private banks were expanding when I started looking for positions, and because many private bankers were impressed by people with investment banking backgrounds and top schools on their resumes.
You don’t see degrees from places like Harvard as much outside the US, and those types of schools are especially well-regarded in Asia.
Plus, my boss was looking for someone smart, efficient, good-looking, and charming, and I fit the bill perfectly. :)
I’ve found that it’s easier to get into private banking than investment banking – the prestige and pay are both lower, so there’s less competition and you don’t see as many of the OCD overachiever types spending months preparing for interviews.
If you want to work in private banking in Asia, you should know a local language such as Mandarin or Cantonese so you can talk to clients – you also need to understand the local culture, speak fluent English, and come from a well-known university. PBs like MBAs, but you don’t need the degree to break in.
Private Banking Interviews
Most of the interview questions were variations on “Why do you want to do private banking?”
I had worked with clients in equity sales before this, so I could sell my experience working with institutional clients and use that to convince them that I could also work with HNW clients.
That strategy doesn’t always work because it depends on the institutional clients and HNW clients in your region – in some places they can be very different in terms of personality and culture.
I didn’t go all-out with interview prep, but one friend of mine did his homework to break in: he studied for and passed the CFA to prove his literacy in finance and read all sorts of annual reports and filings to learn about the bank’s culture. The interviewers asked him very few finance questions and focused on his personality instead.
The top questions my friend and I both received in PB interviews:
- Why do you want to do private banking? / Why do you want to work for us?
- How can your previous experience add value to PB?
- Tell me more about your interpersonal relationship and analytical skills.
- What do you think about the markets?
Most of these are self-explanatory if you read the interview guides on this site; for the first question, you want to point out how you enjoy working with people and investing in the markets and that you see private banking as a perfect blend between the client-centric nature of IB and the public markets investing you would do in trading.
For #2, focus on previous experiences where you worked with clients – especially demanding or difficult ones – and show how you resolved problems and accomplished your mission anyway.
The Private Banking Culture and What You Do Day-to-Day
The pace is slower than IB and the culture tends to be more political / bureaucratic because everything is relationship-driven and merit doesn’t always count for much.
Since there are more girls in PB than in IB, people can be catty at times (and yes, I’m female so I’m allowed to say this).
As the relationship manager, I attended a lot of client meetings and took notes on what the client liked doing for fun, what his/her kids did, where their kids planned to go for college, and so on – all that is fine if you like getting to know people, but overall my learning curve in institutional sales was much steeper than it was in private banking.
My average day usually began with the morning meeting where bankers discussed what was happening in the markets, and I would help my boss prepare investment analysis and anything else she had to present. I worked closely with the investment professionals to talk about specific clients and figure out what products might be good for everyone.
The RM role is much fuzzier than the investment professional role – that’s more for the quantitative and analytical type. If you do that, you’ll act more like a trader’s assistant by preparing account statements and sales pitches for personal investments – you don’t get to see clients, but you do work closely with the RMs.
Hours are roughly 8:30 AM to 7:30 PM – with 2-hour lunch breaks, so life is not exactly difficult. That might not be enough to become Don Draper, but you could probably still squeeze in at least one affair at lunch each day.
Show Me the Money!
As you might expect, pay is significantly lower since the lifestyle is so good and since the work itself is lower-stakes and not as stressful.
The analyst base salary is around $70K, with bonuses ranging from $18K – 35K depending on the economy.
Those are good numbers for your first job out of school, but bonuses will always be less than what you’d earn in investment banking since the fees are lower and overhead is higher.
Got Exit Opps?
The most common exit is to go to another private bank, or another PB division at a large bank.
Some people do get into private equity firms and hedge funds, but they’re mostly in roles such as investor relations or fundraising – without transaction experience, your chances of getting to work on actual investments aren’t great.
Some investment professionals also move into research or help funds analyze investment products and market trends.
Overall, your exit opportunities are definitely more limited than in investment banking since you don’t get deal experience and since the accounting and finance involved are much simpler.
Why I Left Private Banking
So, back to my story in the beginning: why did I decide to leave early on after I got into PB?
The short answer: another bank gave me an offer in their ECM department, and I was more interested in capital markets than private banking. I felt that it would be easier to go back into private banking whenever I wanted, but that IB would be much tougher to get into.
If you can deal with bureaucracy and you want stability, a balanced life, and decent pay, private banking could be a good option for you – I preferred the work environment of IB, so it wasn’t a good fit for me.
The Guy Made a Million Dollars!
Don’t hold your breath if you want to make millions in private banking – it’s much harder than it sounds to bring in ultra HNW clients and to win their trust.
If you already have loads of rich contacts, you might catch a lucky break and rise to the top quickly. Otherwise, you’re better off working for a relationship manager who can share his/her accounts with you.
If you’re smooth and good with office politics, private banking might be great for you – but if not, you’d make money faster in hedge funds, private equity, and investment banking since bonuses in all of those are much higher.
If you can bring in a lot of new assets as a relationship manager you can earn good money, but a rolodex of clients takes a long time to build – and building trust takes even longer than that.
As a senior RM you might have a good life wining and dining HNW clients and hanging out in high-end golf clubs and restaurants – but then you also have the stress of hitting “targets” (assets under management) set by banks.
If you decide to leave private banking, you could leverage your contacts and help them manage their businesses in exchange for equity, or even start your own firm to help them manage and invest their money.
The Best Way to Meet Rich Guys?
I never met the quality rich guys that my supervisor in institutional sales promised – but then I didn’t stick around long enough to go after all the fish in the sea.
But if you don’t mind playing the office politics game, you’re OK with lower pay in exchange for a more stable and balanced life, and you don’t like super-technical work, private banking might be right for you.
And hopefully you’ll meet more rich guys than I ever did.
Nicole Lee has worked in institutional sales, private banking, and investment banking in Hong Kong. When she’s not working, she enjoys kiteboarding at exotic beaches, jumping off planes and bridges, and shark-diving.
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Very insightful. Your article couldn’t be more timely. I just completed an internship with a PE firm and am thinking of breaking into Private Banking.
I do agree that the industry tends to be more dominated by females than males and I’d assume its because most HNW individuals are males who prefer to wine and dine with the opposite sex. So how does that work out for males in the industry? Are they naturally at a disadvantage?
Thanks again Nicole!
Nicole may have her own thoughts here but I don’t think males are necessarily disadvantaged – plenty of senior people in the industry are male. As you said it’s probably not as male-dominated as other industries, but I don’t think you would necessarily be at a disadvantage.
Thanks Brian. And like jojo below, I have to say, good job with the website. Your commitment is inspiring.
Haha, I think the industry tends to have more females vs IB because PB offers a better lifestyle than IB. PB is also very “relationship-driven” and requires more “soft skills”. Most girls in general might be stronger in such skills (I know I am categorizing and I might be wrong, this is just my observation). And no, I think (and this is just my opinion) males can stand out in PB because there are so many girls (vs IB) haha.
Shark-Diving?? That’s sounds like some serious stuff :)
Great article by the way.
Thanks! And yeah, she is pretty serious about adventure travel.
I’ve been chilling out lately. :) No adventure traveling…for a while.
Hi Nicole,
Would like to know if there is significant technical knowledge required of a PWM intern? I will be attending college next year and I have managed to secure a PWM internship before college starts.
If yes, what books/materials should I be reading? Would the Technical Guides be sufficient? Thanks in advance!
Also, I am given the freedom to select my attachment – investment professional / RM. Judging from your post, I’m assuming that joining the investment team would be better in terms of learning experience, is that accurate? Thanks again.
If you want to learn more about investments, I believe joining the investment team would suit you better. You’ll be more involved in the clients’ portfolios and making recommendations on what to buy/sell to clients
As an RM, you’d be more involved in maintaining the relationships your senior RM build with his/her clients
Can’t answer all your questions but the required technical knowledge is not too extensive, maybe basic Excel knowledge and the normal accounting/valuation stuff. Experience investing and trading stocks yourself is a plus.
What’s the comp look like moving up the ladder towards more senior positions?
Depends on your role and how much commission you generate. Base (just base) is similar across the board (BB) – I don’t have the salary list with me – though bonuses differ.
If you are a rainmaker (stellar relationship manager) with a rolodex of accounts – this might take over 8 years ++ to build – you’ll probably make USD 1-2 mn or more a year. And you might also be able to negotiate better perks, etc.
What can the average RM make a year?
And how much of a cut of the commission does the RM take in bonus.
It depends on your level and your bank. I really can’t say.
This article might be helpful even though it is a bit dated http://news.efinancialcareers.co.uk/News_ITEM/newsItemId-11534
Hiya, i’ve read that one before but it was good to read it again with fresh eyes, I’m an arts major, visual effects in particular from England, I didn’t decide I wanted to do finance until end of first year, and I thought about it for a year to be sure, and going into my third year of uni. my school is not a target school for banks but my department is the best in the UK and arguably the best in Europe, having excellent relationships with Hollywood post production houses,etc (How can I show that in resume/interviews, as most bankers wont know that. Despite lack of finance experience I landed a PB internship at a boutique/mid market bank over the summer for 9 weeks, by networking like crazy like Brian says,(thank again) The company is pretty much going in the direction of that article looking to hire big rainmakers with fat books.
I found that most of the private bankers were while males servicing other white males.
Nicole you seem like the perfect person to ask, I am interested in institutional sales and private banking. The bank I worked in was quite slow paced. I am interested in being somewhere much more fast paced environment and a big fan of the markets, i run my own private portfolio and have been doing ok(beat the S&P 500 by 14% last quarter) I think I would enjoy it more but would be much easier to get into PB and then maybe prehaps move after?
Another Question I have is Networking, I have been still networking like crazy but most Private Bankers dont seem to understand why Im talking to them. I basically tell them that I want to be a PB when i graduate and that I am asking them how I can stand out in the application and how to achieve that, and then call on them when I go to apply for their bank.
Is this the right way to go about it or would I want to be more ballsy or less ballsy?
Would I go the same way to apply for Inst Sales roles?
Nice. Yes I think you should def check out working on the S&T floor – Equities/Other products Sales/Sales Trading/Trading. If you want to break in now, why not? Yes it is easier to break into PB but then you can transfer internally. However, if you are good at investing & trading, I don’t see why its so hard to break in S&T now; you will need to demonstrate your passion and knowledge of the markets in your interviews. You can always try to network w traders, institutional salespeople across various bulge brackets and brokerage firms and try to land an interview.
I think you’re doing the right thing. However, some people might be “scared/intimidated” by your approach. You also need to apply tact when approaching people for jobs. Yes, its quantity, but its also about the quality of your network — this I learned as I progressed in my career. If some don’t want to help you, then approach others; there will always be people you click w better. Keep on!
Dear Nicole/Brian,
I’d like to apologise for this plea for help, but I’m only doing this because I’m at a loss.
I’m a 26 year old from Malaysia, with very little investment banking experience (about a year in total). I graduated with a Law, & Acc. & Finance degree from England. I’ve always wanted to break into Private Equity/Equity Capital Markets in Singapore, & I’ve only just received a rejection from my final choice. I’m basically out of options. My reasons for wanting to get out of Malaysia are the crappy political environment here, the increasing costs of living, & the blatant prejudice against Chinese people here.
I’m basically in need of advice. I’ve been told that I may have to spend at least 3 years here in a local investment bank before I’m able to leave the country. I’ve also been told that I would probably shine a lot better here due to my command of the language (as well as other languages), which is a lacking characteristic in Malaysia’s workforce. My fears are as below:
1) That I’ll have to work in Corporate Finance in order to increase my employability elsewhere. I’m trying to avoid this as I don’t have as big an interest as I do in Private Equity as I do with CF.
2) Should I get into ECM, I may not be able to get into Private Equity. And even if I do, I’ll have to start from scratch the moment I move.
I really don’t know what I’m asking for. All that I know is that I’m at a loss, & perhaps I’m looking for some sort of educated guidance. I know that you guys don’t usually provide guidance of this sort (from your earlier articles), but I’m really desperate. If you must know, my interests lie in Private Equity & Equity Capital Markets. Regarding ideal locations, they are Singapore, Australia, Hong Kong (in that order).
I’d appreciate any advice/guidance that you may provide. I would completely understand if you opt not to reply. But I hope that you do. I’m really at a loss. Thanks.
I would say get out of Malaysia ASAP. Is there any way you could go back to the UK to recruit there? Or even Singapore? Australia is a little questionable since I think it’s harder to get a visa there (could be wrong on that though).
I would skip ECM since it’s less closely related to PE and instead try to do corporate finance or business development at a normal company, and then move into PE from there (which does happen, though it’s less common than other places).
Thank you so much for your advice Brian.
I’ve exhausted all my options in Singapore. I graduated in 2009, which was the worst year to graduate, as the 2008 financial crisis had caused huge unemployment. So working in the UK was out of the question, given that I’m a foreigner. And I don’t think the UK has improved much in terms of employment. I still have British friends back there who are still bouncing around the odd job looking for an opportunity to head into the financial services sector.
Australia is a little hard to get into, not so much because of the visa, but because most companies explicitly state in their requirements that only PRs/Residents can apply.
I’ve only tried the big firms (Morgan Stanley,JP Morgan…you get the idea) in Hong Kong (this was before I discovered your site & realised that they’d never hire me), so I’m currently frantically hunting around for smaller ones…although I heard the competition for employment in Hong Kong is harder.
Sigh, I guess I can’t run away from Corporate Finance. I could give business development a shot. Either way, I’ll keep my options open. Thank you so much Brian. This means a lot to me.
I think at this point, you shouldn’t think too much about your “end goal” yet because what you need now is “one step above” your current experience. Look for jobs in ECM, Corp Finance and PE – Once you land a job, then you decide whether you want it or not. No point in thinking so much now. Keep your options open. Again, best way to go about it is to find out who the MDs are, email them and ask them to hire you. And..
Corp finance – while hours are long, its good training for PE. You can also apply directly to PE houses ; they sometimes have entry level positions.
While ECM might not be able to prep you for PE, you’d be surprised the contacts you might meet through this job, and with the right network & story, you might be able to break into PE after ECM. Better yet, you might like ECM so much that you want to stay. I’ve heard of a couple of houses in ECM hiring in the last few months because they need analysts to do the grunt work. You should look into that.
Do bear in mind that you will need to speak Mandarin if you want these roles in HK.
You have not exhausted all your options – keep trying.
Thanks for your reply Nicole.
I’ll be considering my options later today, as well as prepping my applications.
Regarding speaking Mandarin, I do speak Mandarin and Cantonese at a conversational level, but I can’t read or write Chinese. Would this still be a problem?
Yes. Conversational is good but not ideal, they want peeps who are fluent and can read and write esp if you have to do pitch books, meet Chinese clients. They might test you in interviews. I’d suggest you to look at roles which aren’t too “china focused” so they won’t require such high level of language skills.
dear lost,
stop blaming other ppl… if other ppl can make it to IB y u cant? me, started my IB career in Msia.. now it been 15 wonderful yrs already.. ask ursef again. for me its simple.. u are the problem.
Thanks for this article, it comes at a good time for me: I have just completed a 10-week Private Banking internship at a Bulge Bracket bank (I am coming from a target school but with no prior finance experience whatsoever). I thought it would be a good way to get a foot into the finance door but also to get a general feel for the whole industry. Was a really good experience and I had a great time. But as expected, I am now trying to switch to either Corporate Banking or IB. It seems to me that Private Banking is not necessarily the best place to start a career unless one is absolutely certain that he/she wants to stay in the industry. As Nicole writes, you can probably learn much more in IB or elsewhere.
There are, however, a few more aspects on PB which I believe are worth mentioning. For example, hardly anyone gets to start as a RM, if you actually begin your career in PB, you are extremely likely to have to work on the product side for quite some time (I think our youngest RM was around 28). The interesting thing about the Private Bank is that it is like a bank in a bank. On a micro-level it combines many of the other functions which a bank does. For example, I was working on the Credit side, which is one of the key products, and was dealing with Client’s requests for loans. So my work was probably much more similar to the work of say a Corporate Banker than the work of a PB RM. Of course there are all the other product groups like capital markets, investment counseling, etc. which very much deal with the market side. If the RM is the heart of PB, probably more than 50% of the people who work in PB still work in one of the product groups and it is an entirely different experience from the work as a RM (and also in terms of pay).
It is definitely an interesting industry and I absolutely agree with the points you list on the plus-side. On the negative side it is an extremely fragmented industry and hardly any of the players holds any significant share of the market whatsoever. What is more, the tendency seems to go towards further fragmentation as the threshold for UHNW individuals to open Family offices decreases. Now guys from >150-200MM Net Worth are starting to open up Family Offices which poses quite a challenge for traditional Private Banks.
In Europe the industry also faces a VERY tough environment as there is only very little new wealth creation. That means that a lot of the banks are trying to cut cost aggressively which will have a sad impact on employee numbers in the foreseeable future…
Hope that helps to give some more insight.
Btw. thanks a lot for this website and all the advice in general. I am pretty sure that without it I would have had a significantly harder time in getting into finance in the first place!
Thanks for sharing! Great information there. And yeah, Asia seems more interesting than Europe strictly from the “new wealth creation” perspective.
I can’t retire in my 30′s with 10 million in the bank with this career? I guess I’ll wait for the next article.
We are planning to cover how to win the lottery and/or become a drug dealer soon, so you might be in luck.
Great article for those who wants to break into PB. I’d like to ask if this is possible for retail banking RM breaks into PB? Have you heard any successful cases?
Look forward to hearing from you and thanks again for the sharing!
I have not heard of any cases myself. I think its possible for retail RMs to break into PB. However, I do believe PBs have more stringent requirements for their RMs since PBs’ focus is on servicing HNW /ultra-HNW clients; and such clients are usually more demanding.
Sorry to ride on your pot Tom. But I too have a question similar for Nicole.
To break into Private Banking, doesn’t one usually have to start off at retail and build a portfolio of clients? This is what I got from a PB working at a BB.
post*
While it might be a different case in Asia, I believe networking (if you have a rolodex of rich -HNW/ultra HNW-guys, yes you can break in from retail) and “pedigree” is crucial for one to land a job in PB.
In my experience, I see people break in from IB because they want a better lifestyle. Strategically, it makes sense too because a lot of times the PB client is also the IB client for the bank.
Others break in from analyst/associate programs (for junior level positions). One exceptional experience was a personal friend who broke into PB; he had financial services background, but not in a BB.
Appreciate it Nicole, Great job with the article!
Anytime. Thank you for reading the article!
Hi, how possible do you think the institutional sales – capital markets leap is? And by the way thanks for this site, it has been massively useful.
You’ve asked the right person! Ta!
Of course its possible. ECM needs people who have an understanding of how institutional investors think, and ECM requires investors’ feedback in order to market the banks’ IPOs, FOs, etc.
Most people I know wouldn’t want to move from sales to ECM though.
On that last point, I wanted to ask why you wanted to make that transition actually. You were in syndicate though right? More sales-ish, less excel monkeying…
I made that transition because things didn’t work out at the previous firm, and I got a better offer at another firm with an amazing boss (your boss is very important in your career, especially early on, probably more so than other factors). I also wanted to understand more about the IPO markets so that was a smooth transition for me. The desk also needed someone with a sales background. Syndicate is more sales-ish; it does involve working on excel spreadsheets and long hours though.
Dear Nicole and Brian,
Thanks for your article.
1.
In HK, will recruiters think one is weird for not doing something business related for an undergrad degree? Do people in HK consider the top 2 UK unis as “like Harvard” (or HYPSMC)?
Where does a non-business/econ degree from HYPSM/Oxbridge stand compared with “global business” or “BBA” degrees from the top 3 local unis for banking jobs?
2.
Is it true that there is a lot lot more competition in HK for analyst/summer intern positions (IB/PB) than London + other places?
3.
In what aspect would one’s story (from Brain’s IB Interview Guide template) differ for PB?
For e.g. How should the last paragraph be changed (…an advisor or investor for XXX industry…) ? Should I still mention all the modeling.. LBO…DCA…investment club… and accounting stuff I’ve learned or done in my story/resume?
1. Not necessarily – depends on the recruiter. Can’t say, depends on if the “people” you are referring to are from UK or US. Strictly speaking, most recruiters prefer people w a Finance/Accounting degree. If you’re looking at quant roles, recruiters prefer peeps with Math/ Engineering degree. However, there are people who didn’t major in finance/math/acct who got into banking. The majors matter, but not as much as you may think
2. Perhaps, since many people want to come to Asia. Can’t say if its more competitive than London/NY (now) though
3. Mention the investment club and accounting stuff you’ve learned. Just say you really like managing people’s wealth, and you think you can add value to the division by helping HNW individuals to invest given your skills and passion in investing (pls back this up w “real life scenarios”). Also say you have great relationship building skills, and act with “class” and speak “well”
Just wanted to give a shout out to a fellow Hoya, great article!
Thanks Ryan. Happy to meet a fellow Hoya – let me know if you have any questions etc. Remember to join GUSIF. It certainly helped me land myself my first gig in finance.
How is the hierarchical ladder? The same than in IB?
If I complete 2-3 yrs in IB, in what position could I get in in PB?
Awesome post! The new writers bring freshness to the site! Well played, Bri!
Yes, similar. You’d probably be a third year analyst/first year associate in PB
I just finished my PWM summer internship in HK at a bulge bracket and this article pinpoint most of the pros and cons I found – it was very accurate and well-organized. I think the “bank within a bank” comment serves the business well. My favorite aspect about it is still the broad exposure to different financial products. That said, even senior sales would agree that starting off in private banking isn’t the best career choice straight out of college.
I also notice that not every bank separates the role of investment managers and relationship managers.
Overall, well done and huge thanks, Nicole and Brian! :)
Cheers
Thanks! Glad you like the article!
it seems like no banks are recruiting. would be great to get an article on that. also seems like HK recruiting is getting popular because they are still hiring
Ok, I’ll speak to our M&I team re the above. Yes even banks in HK have hiring freezes. However, its not the end of the world. Sometimes random positions pop up when you least expect it…
im a nontarget junior with who is taking a semester off. I’m currently working part-time with a charity fund where i do a bit of investment analysis.
Just wondering if I should stick with the charity or try to shoot for another internship. Im worried that im too late to snag one for the fall now. I have banking and research experience, but i cant return to those boutiques because im stuck in my hometown, which is a city with tons of banks and hf/pe funds etc.
Great! I can’t make the decision for you. If working at the charity is what you really want and you are learning from it, I’d say continue. I also think the investment analysis you are conducting is useful when you apply for roles (research/funds) in the future. Can you also work part-time for another fund in your hometown? If you’re worried, I’d probably do that too. Also try to network within your town as much as you can and see if any interesting opportunities pop up
Great and very insightful article, congratulations to Brian and the M&I team for the new layout.. Keep ‘em coming!!
Where is the best sky dive location you have jumped from? Also, where have you swam with sharks – South Africa, Thailand, Australia?
Thanks
Best skydive locations I recommend – Cape Town, Hawaii (Oahu) & Fox Glacier in New Zealand. I did shark cage diving in Cape Town and Oahu.
Shark caging!! AmAaaaazing!
I’m in Australia and want to work overseas for a while in IB after working here for a few years.
Would it be easier/harder get a job in London/ New York doing m&a, ecm ER or any other groups.
I can’t answer you because I don’t know your background and interests. I’d say try applying to the jobs anyway and see where it leads you.
Hi Nicole,
Being a Hong Kong native, do you happen to know of any regular networking event among bankers in Hong Kong that is also open to the aspiring bankers out there? The question is coming from a 25yo who fooled around in school and graduated with an abominable GPA and is now heading no where fast as far as his career is concerned. Nonetheless he would like to at least make up for some lost time and start doing some networking even though he knows he’s so late in the game.
Many thanks.
I don’t personally know of events that are catered to “meeting bankers” here. I think your best bet to meet bankers is to join Pure Fitness (IFC/Kinwick) and go clubbing in LKF (think Prive) haha. CLSA organizes an annual investor conference though you’d be meeting more institutional investors through that event, and that event is “invite-only” though you can always try to find someone who works at CLSA and tag along. Bankers are usually traveling/working so it is hard to get a hold of them. Also try hanging out at The Bankers Club, American Club, China Club (if you are a member), Sevva…or even try to attend upcoming IPOs’ roadshow meetings (not sure how you can get in though) if you can. Just hang out more in Central (IFC, Citibank Tower), West Kowloon (Elements)…but remember..be genuine and keep your cool!
Getting into the CLSA Forum would be great. Meet lots of folks plus they always have big, big name speakers (e.g. Bill Clinton) and big name entertainment (e.g. Macy Gray). Don’t mean for this to sound like an advertisement…
Thanks Adam! Glad to know we have a fan from CLSA!
Not from CLSA myself, but several friends are…
Thank you for your reply Nicole. I don’t see myself gaining access to any of the above any time soon, but definitely worth keeping an eye on. Not into clubbing but the Prive is eye-opening for sure….
Hanging out in the gym is a good idea, but what if I can’t afford Pure Fitness, are Fitness First or California Fitness less prevalent among bankers? :P
Yes. HK is small. Just network as much as you can. And I’m sure you can afford Pure Fitness; its just a matter of priority.
Hong Kong? I wonder if its possible to network FROM M&I and ask for an internship from Nicole…
On the other hand, Nicole do you find some of the more standard methods of finding a job useful in HK? For example I’m a senior in HK, and I feel like its less about networking and more about being good in the classic things and going through a real app, not to mention the fact BBs are much more inclined to hire front office from the States (eg. 290 interns at MS this summer, 280 in front office, 279 of them from States). PWM is different naturally, but what are some more HK specific ways of going at a job at front office more…indirectly?
No. I don’t like standard procedures if I can choose but that is just me. Find out the email address of people who have the power to hire you (assuming you want to be on their team), email them and send them your details/interest to work for them. Simple.
Does cold emailing (assuming that’s what you meant) work that well in HK though? Things seem to be more structured and hierarchal than what I would expect from the States…
Yes. It works. I do it all the time.
Ha! I can teach you how to network but you’ll have to do the work and find the internship yourself.
Hi, what is the comp like in inst sales?
Similar to IB. Most jobs in finance that are Wall Street-related offer similar pay structures.
In sales (part of sales & trading), trading volumes are going to impact the salesperson’s comp. A bank that generates greater trading volume is going to offer higher pay, all other things the same.
Would your bonus be directly related to the business you generated personally?
There is typically an individual component, but there is also an overall group performance component to bonuses.
Hi Nicole applying to inst sales and private banking roles this year. How does an application/resume change for a role such as these I know Brian has produced IB resume but would it be the Same layout and format, what points should be emphasized
Similar resume layout & format. Emphasize your sales, relationship management, communication and interpersonal relationship skills. It would also be nice if you could highlight your financial experience (perhaps you had some experience in picking stocks).
Sure, thanks for that. I have had informational meetings with quite a few bankers and they are all refferring me to HR, after our phone call and I have gotten I am getting Head of Graduate Recruitment warm leads, how can i play this to my advantage, this may be a question for Brian ‘the networking guru’ but I would be open for answers from anyone.
Dear M&I crew,
Would appreciate your feedback. So I found the only alum working in finance in the area, contacted and met in person, and he appeared to be friendly and said it’s ok to follow up with any questions. But the meeting didn’t produce any leads (could be bad technique on my part, I’m very new to the “networking” game). I also have the feeling the person doesn’t fully understand what I’m trying to do, possibly due to his elite background (target school, “big names” work experience), he simply didn’t have to network to get started (he got in via campus recruiting). So the suggestions he gave were centered around recruiting via the standard “apply online” channel. I keep an eye on job boards regularly and I do see there’s a posting for trainee positions from the same bank, would it be appropriate to email him and ask for someone whom I could talk to regarding this “trainee” position?
Another question on cold-emailing, is finding random people on LinkedIn a viable option? I would jot down whatever names I manage to find and try to infer their emails (FirstName.LastName@someBank.com). And what do you think is the most effective email subject if I have absolutely no connection with the person I’m going to email?
Appology for the lengthy post, grateful for your inputs!! Many thanks!!
Yes, email him. Linkedin viable though emailing is better. Subject – something warm but formal. Something that makes you stand out, but not stalkerish or desperate. Below articles shd help.
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/network-investment-banking-mistakes/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/network-investment-banking-5-simple-steps/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/networking-investment-banking-jobs/
Hi guys,
Thanks for the informative article- private banking has definitely piqued my interest. I was wondering if you could elaborate on the rigidity (or lack thereof) of PB recruiting in Asia. Just a quick backstory- I’m a 2011 college grad with summer internships at a HK-based hedge fund and a middle market investment bank (M&A) in the US, but no job offers as of yet. I am currently studying Mandarin intensively in China for the next year and predict a decent degree of fluency in Chinese (enough to write an ER report) by the time my program concludes. I had a couple of questions:
1) Is PB similar to ER and IBD in that there is a highly structured process, or will it be possible for me to break in one year out of graduation? (In Asia)
2) I’ve heard somewhere that equity sales with non-Asian institutional clients in Hong Kong is a route one can take if they don’t have the requisite “Mandarin fluency” but still want to work in the region. Is this true? And if so, are there similar routes in PB?
3) If I start in PB in California, how “stuck” am I to the region? That is, if I’m working to develop a client base in Asia… should I not be in the United States?
Thanks!
3)
1) Not as structured as ER or IBD, so one year after graduation is potentially do-able.
2) It’s possible, yes. PB would be tougher since it’s more localized than institutional sales.
3) Yes, better to start where your clients are. PB is more local than other industries.
Hi,
Currently 37 years old.
Only have an HNC Higher National Certificate. No degree or other qualifications
1) Am i to old for working in investment banking or private banking?
2) Do i need to go to uni and top up my qualification
3) or can i just do some professional qualifications through the CISI and apply for junior roles?
Thanks
1. I hate to give definite answers but in your case, I believe so.
2. No. Why do you want to go back to univ at 37? Can’t you start a business or do something else?
3. Sure. You’ll have to start from the bottom though
I want to go back to university to top up my HNC to a degree as i did not get an opp to complete it earlier, it would be part time, and its always been a life long ambition to get an MBA either full or part time.
I have a lot of friends who have done there DFS and CEMAP and become financial advisors or mortgage advisors BUT I want to go into investment banking or private banking if not then would it be easier to go into wealth management?
Then get an MBA part time while you work then.
PB is wealth management unless you meant asset management. In your case, I think it can be challenging for you to break into IB/PB/AM. I’d suggest you to network intensively with bankers and see what positions come up.
Just finished reading Money and Power, How Goldman Sachs came to rule the world,l amazing book. I would love to work for GS…
What business school do you recommend in the UK. I was thinking about the London Business School. or Oxford, Cambridge, Warwick, Loughborough. I would love to go to Harvard
Sure LBS is a great bschool.
Will it help me to get into IB, PB?
Yes. It is a target school
Great interview, thank you.
I was wondering how much success in this line of work depends on sales and bringing in new business. I am not interested in IB due to the lifestyle constraints and PB seems like a nice gig; however, taking a job in this economy where my success (or whether I get to keep my job) largely depends on the sales I do is not really for me.
If one can just float along and continue earning the 60-70k base + small bonus while doing the analysis and preparing the pitches its a decent job but getting fired for not generating enough sales sucks.
I don’t think you’ll be expected to generate sales as an analyst/associate. If you are an investment professional, I don’t think they will evaluate your performance based on your sales. However, if you are a RM (at the senior level), you will be evaluated based on how much $ you bring in. I still think PWM is a relatively safe place to work in (vs. IB)!
Thanks for the great insights. I have a question for Nicole as I interned in institutional sales but interviewing for pb now, no S&T opening at all now. What are the chances, and how can I get back to Sales after I’m on a pb job?
Don’t know how you pitch yourself so I can’t say. Decent chances but best if you have a network of institutional investors
Hi Nicole,
First of all, thanks for the excellent article!
I received a private banking offer as an analyst at a BB and I have few questions:
1- How technical would working in the investment lab be? Would I get to research investment ideas? or maybe execute the trades? Would the job be similar to someone who’s doing, say equity research?
2- I am generally interested in Equity Research, how easy would a transition be from private banking to equity research? or to a research role at a mutual fund (asset management)??
Thank you Nicole!
1. Yes I think you’ll be able to conduct research on various investment ideas. Not sure if you will get to execute trades though
2. If you are an investment professional at the PB, I believe the transition shouldn’t be too hard though you’ll have to network intensively and demonstrate valuation/modelling skills in interviews
Hi Nicole,
Awesome article, very insightful
Im considering becoming a financial planner – which is heavily sales-oriented in terms of bringing in new clients. Will this be a good transition into Private banking and subsequently investment banking? I am currently 23 years old and have been working at a brokerage house on the retail side. I’ve been told that with financial planning, its 80% sales and 20% analysis/admin, is this the same with Private Banking? Lastly, to get into Private banking do you generally need to have an established and loyal client book?
Sorry for the lengthy post – any insights will be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance!
It’s somewhat transferable yes, but the exact percentages might be off… PB is more geared toward sales though. To get in at the entry level you don’t need a client book.
Hi Nicole,
I thoroughly enjoyed reading your entire posts. Thanks for this brilliant input.
Nicole, I must admit that I need a bit of your advice too, if you don’t mind. I’m in HK working for a brokerage firm for almost about a year now. I’m giving IIQE exams and in few months time; I intend to become an IFA.
I realized that what I do in terms of generating business is pretty much the same as what RM of a bank does. The only difference I presume is that we are not fed with leads as they probably are (I may be wrong here).
I have my MBA from UK, and after working in few non finance industries for sometime I finally stepped into this job, which is my first finance related job.
My weakness is that I DO NOT know the local language (Cantonese & Mandarine ) at all.
I have been constantly trying to find out the step up role suitable for me within the finance/investment world where ONLY English language is sufficient.
I have an immense willingness to get all the way up to the top level of this industry in another 10 to 15 years. Your guidance here would help me put the right step forward.
Look forward to hearing from you…
Regards,
Brad…
What sort of clients do you cover? If you don’t speak Chinese/Mandarin and you want to break into private banking, I’d suggest you to look at PBs that cover SEA clients though I think they’d still prefer you to speak a local language and have a degree from a top tier school. Perhaps the second/third tier PBs are less strict. Another area you can look into are sales roles at asset management firms. You’ll have to speak to them and see which roles don’t require you to speak an Asian language though. Hard for me to say on this comments page because I don’t know what skills you have and what you’re good at.
Thanks Nicole!
You are right! I did realize that PBs do seek local language skills. Hence, I have been putting some serious contemplation on inclining towards a role on research. Your latter suggestion coincided with my intentions.
If I have to pursue this role says within a year down the line, how do you suggest I should prepare myself?
Sales have been my strength all along; however, if I have to honestly answer myself – I would want to keep my hard-core sales skills aside for some years and get into a technicality of investments.
I’ve been digging in a lot about my end goal, and that would be somewhat like – being on the forefront of Credit analysis and deal execution, investment professional who analyses and performs deep due diligence on a pipeline of stressed and distressed instruments…. and moving on to financial restructuring and operational turnaround, etc.
I know I am just nearly one-year-old in this industry, but I have got to find my way to where I want to reach. However, at present I need to know.
1)what should be my next step up?
2) what do I need to prepare myself?
3) How long do I need for a preparation?
I hope you are getting where I’m coming from.
Any advice at all will be much appreciated.
Best regards,
Brad
Honestly, its very hard for me to say on this comments page given limited amount of information available. I’d suggest you (a) Figure out your key strengths and weaknesses (b) areas which you are interested in and think can add value (seems like you’ve done so already) (c) build a contact database and network with people in such areas
How long do you need to prepare? It really depends on you. This is all an internal process, while reaching out to people is an external process that takes time and patience. I can’t give you a time frame. Just follow a,b and c and you should be able to gain clarity and new direction.
How is the learning curve steeper in institutional sales compared to private banking?
I am only speaking from my personal experience: In institutional sales, you are exposed to research analysts traders etc. You attend morning calls, summarize notes from morning calls, have access to institutional clients and speak to research analysts across various industries regarding their stock calls and brainstorm ways to address institutional clients’ questions on the markets and needs. In private banking (again this is only speaking from my personal experience) your level of exposure to research analysts and institutional clients is v minimal (and you learn a lot by talking to them). Institutional investors are usually, in my limited experience, more sophisticated than PWM investors so your learning curve can be steeper because institutional investors may demand more from you
Hi Nicole,
Great article. When you say ‘Great Lifestyle’ would you say this is relative to other roles in finance such as IB or a great lifestyle in its own right?
Also, how much would you say this varies between institutions or are they all very similar? As somebody who does value a certain degree of work-life balance, would you say this is the best role to get into? If not, what else would you suggest?
Keep up the good work.
Relative to other roles in IB. On its own, it’s still not really a 9-5 job with flextime or anything. It varies a bit because you generally work more at bigger banks, but the variability is lower than different sized banks in IB. Other potential roles would be asset management or trading since they follow market hours, but again they’re far from 9-5 jobs… if you want lifestyle your best bet is some type of corporate finance role at a normal company.
I know this might be dumb – But what are the major differences between PWM and Asset Management in terms of skill sets, job nature and exit opportunities? Thanks!
Main difference b/ PWM & AM – in PWM you are dealing with high net worth clients’ money, in AM you are dealing with institutional (institutions, governments, foundations and endowments, corporations) & retail investors’ (individuals’) money. Skill sets, job nature, exit opportunities can be somewhat similar (though there are still differences) depending on the role. You’d have to provide me the role you are interested in so I can give you a better feel. Good question.
Thanks Nicole for answering my question. I am interested in client relationship management in general (hence RM in PWM/AM) :)
I have heard that the Swiss Banks are more popular choices for PWM because of some obscure ‘tax benefits’ as opposed to US banks. Some say the former can hide the clients’ financial information in Switzerland, which is impossible for local governments to dig out. Is that true?
I believe so but I’m not quite sure. This article may shed some light http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7901832.stm
That said, what are the comparative advantages of US banks if everyone can save some money by switching to Swiss banks? Thx!
That’s a good question. I think it depends on where the client is based in and which firm the client has a better relationship with. The relationship managers of the firms matter quite a bit in this case because they can influence clients’ decisions. I’m not too familiar with the difference (in terms of tax savings etc) re. putting money in US vs Switzerland. Maybe private bankers who are readers of this site can shed some light on this issue.