Positioning Yourself for Business School, Part 2: The Non-Financier
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I was tempted to label this one “The Vagabond” or “The Average Joe,” but those didn’t sound very… flattering.
Last time, we looked at how to set yourself apart in MBA admissions if you’re coming from a finance background.
The main challenge there is “being interesting” – defined as not looking exactly the same as every other person who took the “2 years of banking followed by 2 years of PE” route.
If you’re coming from a non-finance background, though, you face a different set of challenges.
Obstacles for Non-Financiers
If you’re coming from a non-finance background – anything from a political campaign volunteer to a nonprofit worker to an entrepreneur to anyone in fields like accounting and IT consulting – your biggest challenge will be proving that you can do the work.
Remember, we’re assuming that you’re using business school to get into a field like finance or consulting. You still need to “be interesting” to get into business school in the first place before using it for recruiting purposes.
If you’ve been an accountant for 4 years but haven’t done anything else outside work, you’ll face an uphill battle getting into top schools.
But getting these “extracurricular activities” is easier for anyone with a non-finance background, because you actually have the time to do things outside of pitch books and Excel. So you probably don’t need to make any dramatic moves, and you can follow the tips given in our first article.
And if you’re coming from more of a “vagabond” background – you decided to leave the country and head to a monastery for a year, or you founded a nonprofit in Guatemala – your work experience by itself is already “interesting.”
But no matter what your background is, the #1 question any bank will have for you is simple:
Can you do the work?
After all, you’ve never done finance before.
Proving That You Can Do the Work
Sometimes this is just a matter of positioning. A lot of MBA students get interested in finance from exposure they’ve had before – so if you’ve been a healthcare policy analyst but had a chance to do some modeling work when consulting with the federal government, then you know what to do: play that up as much as possible.
The same is true if you were at a nonprofit when it was merging with another nonprofit, or if you helped out with due diligence on M&A transactions when you were at a Big 4 firm.
In other cases, “proving” that you can do the work is more difficult. I’ve received quite a few questions from former Hollywood writers and producers who want to move into finance – if you’re in a creative profession like that, you need to get some exposure to finance before you arrive at business school.
That could be in the form of a part-time or unpaid internship, and your best chance might be in the summer before school starts.
You should get actual work experience rather than “shadowing” someone or doing an “independent research project.” Banks don’t take any of that too seriously for anyone at the MBA level.
It’s a matter of risk management on their part – hiring the wrong person can cost three times the person’s annual salary. Given that finance salaries are (still) higher than almost anything else, firms need to attract “low-risk” individuals.
The bottom line: you’ll be at a big disadvantage if you don’t have anything finance-related on your resume and you’re planning to use business school recruiting – especially if the economy remains poor or gets even worse.
Finding Proof
So how do you actually get this “proof” if you’re working or have some other full-time obligation?
Logically speaking, you have 2 options:
- Quit whatever you’re doing now and find something finance-related in the meantime.
- Take advantage of that summer window before school starts and do something finance-related then.
In either case, do not jump into anything unless you’ve actually been accepted to school(s) first.
You get these opportunities the same way you get internships or jobs at smaller firms in the first place: a combination of networking, cold-calling, and persistence.
Don’t even try to arrange something informal at a bulge bracket bank – they won’t be open to it, and they’re less flexible with “creating” new positions.
One exception is if you go through a pre-MBA program that gives you real work experience. I’m not an expert on this topic, but that could also be a potential way to demonstrate “proof” as long as you work full-time in finance over an extended period (e.g. not 2 weeks).
Other Factors – Grades and GMAT Scores
Some people make a big fuss over undergraduate GPA and GMAT scores, but if you’re applying to top schools, they don’t matter that much – past a certain point.
Why?
Almost everyone applying to these schools has relatively good grades (3.5 range or over) and GMAT scores (over 700). The average is already quite high, so having perfect grades and GMAT scores is not enough to set you apart.
It’s like technical questions in investment banking interviews – getting them right puts you in the running, but you’ll never get an offer based solely on your technical know-how. They’re used to weed out applicants rather than to decide who gets offers.
As long as you have grades and scores that put you on par with everyone else applying, your admission chances come down to essays, recommendations, and your “story” – not specific numbers.
So the only way scores and grades matter is if yours are not on par with everyone else’s – in which case you do have a problem.
Aiming Lower Than the Top
We’ve been focused on the top schools, where competition is tough and where admissions rates are likely to be at all-time lows in the near future.
And if you’re interested only in finance or consulting, there’s little point in aiming any lower than the top: most firms don’t recruit much at programs outside the top 10 (before anyone jumps on this, yes there are exceptions).
But that doesn’t apply to everyone – maybe you’re older and more experienced, and you’re interested in changing careers or going back for other purposes. If you’re after the experience rather than the recruiting opportunities, you don’t need to get into the top programs in the world.
In that case, you might be better off saving yourself time, effort, and money and going for a less “prestigious” option.
It goes back to your motivations for going in the first place – not everyone is interested in going back to school primarily for recruiting purposes.
It’s All About the Story
As with interviews and any other type of application, positioning yourself for business school comes down to your “story” more than anything else.
But the challenge is that you often need 2 different stories: one to get into school in the first place, and one to use when you’re recruiting at school.
And you need to start developing both, even before you think about applying anywhere.
Coming Up: How to successfully “spin” your story and make yourself sound more interesting (if I can get anyone to go on-the-record with this…).
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Tags: boutique investment banks, changing careers, investment banking, MBA, prestige, telling your story, understanding investment banking
Other readers who liked this article also liked these:- Positioning Yourself for Business School, Part 1: The Financier
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- Recruiting in a Down Market, Part I: The State of the Market
- How to Break Into Finance with a Low GPA, No Finance Experience, and Without Going to a Top School: 4 Mistakes to Avoid and 3 Strategies to Embrace
I remember in the past you asked non-target or uber-persistent people who broke into banking for some of their stories.
I was wondering if you were going to share any of those in any upcoming posts?
It would be great to hear about some success stories and people breaking in from non-traditional paths during difficult times.
Those were mostly for my own research purposes for an upcoming product – I can’t really share explicit, personally identifiable details because anyone I interviewed would kill me (secrecy dominates finance). I’ll see if I can share anything but I’d probably have to do separate interviews for that.
I have been a long time reader of this blog and it seems like you normally cater all your advice to top-tier schools and individuals with good/high GPAs.
For me, I did not have the opportunity to go to a top-tier institution and I do not have a good GPA (sub-par). Instead, I went to a top-public school where banks do come (but recruit maybe a total 10 individuals) to banking each year, each class.
Unfortunately, in these rough economic times, I did not get an offer from a BB bank for FT recruiting even with my prior summer experience in IBD. As such, I would like to return to business school some day and try my recruiting efforts again there.
At banks, I have seen a trend where if you have experience, they eshibit the “low-risk hiring” technique where if you have decent GPA (sub-par) and experience in finance, you get an interview. Do you think business schools have any “low-risk” acceptance tools an individual in my situation can use to their disposal?
A lot of what I’ve written about really applies to anyone… networking, interviewing, telling your story etc. are as applicable for anyone with a high GPA as they are for anyone with a lower GPA.
For business school specifically, yes, there is a bias toward more “top-tier” backgrounds – because if you use it for finance recruiting, there is honestly no point in going to a lesser-known school.
I’m not sure I completely understand your question so tell me if I’m getting this wrong, but your undergraduate institution does not matter -that- much in terms of b-school recruiting… as in work experience matters more.
I’d say your #1 strategy should be putting together very solid work experience and doing a lot of networking with those in finance before you even arrive at b-school so that you have a leg up on everyone else – esp. if the economy stays poor, anyone who hasn’t networked much will be at a disadvantage compared to you.
Sorry if I was not clear. But, I was wandering if business schools look favorably on finance work experience that is not IBD. I received an offer at a valuation shop but am not sure how likely such a position will improve my chances in getting into business school. Would valuations experience be considered good work experience? While it is not as prestigious as IBD or Consulting, would that be sufficient (along with networking) to get into a top business school?
It helps vs. doing something like accounting and I think you can get in with that type of experience. But keep in mind the above article: you really need something else beyond that work experience to maximize your chances, especially since your hours are (presumably) lower at that type of firm.
This article provides inspiration for an individual like myself who ultimately wants to go into consulting but can’t simply because of my major in Environmental Eng. I guess I caught myself a big break this year and got accepted into Stanford for my masters in engineering, however it’s not finance related.
Is there any hope for me?? I got in contact with a recruiter from Bain & Co and they say engineers are in “good shape” to enter consulting. I also think it would be great to hear a non-trad major breaking into finance and how they overcome the hurdle.
Thanks M&I!!!
I’ll see what I can do on non-finance majors breaking in… I wrote about my own story awhile back here:
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/true-story-get-into-investment-banking/
I think you can still get into consulting and engineers certainly do it, but you will need to do some creative re-positioning of what you’ve done and make your resume look a lot more business-oriented… maybe ask Kevin on Management Consulted if he has any insights there? He wrote something about that here:
http://managementconsulted.com/2009/01/getting-a-management-consulting-job-from-an-engineering-andor-technical-background/
Long time reader, first time writer.
I dont know about your knowledge outside the US Investment banking industry, but i know MBB and other strategy firms apply a different approach to undergrads at top tier schools in Europe. At Mck they told me that hiring undergrads (work for 2-3 years and getting your MBA paid) is rare, and you have to have at least began studying on your masters (in my case finance hopefully) to apply for an internship.
Anyhow, that being said, can you come out of your masters and apply to banking in for example London, or is analysts always undergrads in bulge bracket Ibanks?
A second question. How about doing consulting for a few years, then doing an MBA at lets say INSEAD (one of the top business schools in the world, being like Harvard in Europe, France)? Which position do you enter as an after an MBA without former banking experience (but mainly work in corp finance in lets say Mck)?
Hey there, I’m not an expert on London/Europe but keep in mind that in Europe a lot of people do a Master’s following their undergrad program and it’s almost more expected than in the US (esp. since a lot of undergrad programs there are fewer credit hours).
If you’re coming out of a Master’s but non-MBA program, you’d still be applying for Analyst roles.
MBA anywhere would allow you to enter as an Associate… doesn’t matter if it’s INSEAD or any other top university in Europe/elsewhere, if you’ve done the program you’d enter as an Associate. The problem people run into is when they have had minimal work experience altogether and that makes it difficult to enter banking. But you don’t need former banking experience to get into post-MBA banking positions.
Great Article. As a entering 1st year at Kellogg, I can say that its all about the story, how you convey it and how you back it up.
10 years of capital equipment sales experience (Fortune 100), 3 years as an enterprise IT project manager (Fotrune 5), 5 years small business M&A (concurrent), 2nd tier finance MBA and top-tier Economics BA with some graduate level computer science at Harvard….any chance of me breaking into this world? Exceptional sales person and relationship manager with the quantitative skills to match. I need to truly use my skills. I believe sometimes what is not stated is more important what is said.
You could give it a shot but most large banks would probably say you’re over-qualified. I would shoot for smaller banks, see what the reaction is, and if it isn’t good you could wait for the market to recover.
Thank you very much for your reply. The site is excellent.
Pros – As a public policy hack, I have developed useful skills in relationship and project management. A big part of my job involves implementing and administering complex intra (state) and inter (federal) programs; as well as creating documents under very tight deadlines that are read by hundreds of thousands of people every year (so attention to detail is very important)! I am seriously considering applying to business school next fall to make a career switch to investment banking.
Cons – I have a graduate degree in emergency management that involved some quantitative courses, but I fear that I’m a bit short on the formal finance experience. Would a graduate certificate course in finance from a “second tier” school (like Rutgers or Penn State) help with applications to top 20 MBA programs?
Thanks for any insight that you can provide on this.
Paul#2
Eh I would go for an informal internship rather than 2nd tier finance program… usually it only helps if it’s from a top school.
Ah…ok. Thanks for the feedback. I’ll have to do something really unconventional to fit in an internship before submitting my business school applications (nights and weekends?). Your comment did however make me think that if I do also pursue a graduate certificate in finance or something similar, it may as well be at a target school. I think this type of program tends to be non-credit and admission requirements are not very rigorous, but you can get the name of the target school on your resume! Am I being naïve here?
It’s all about the name, so you’re correct… sounds very stupid, but appearance/presentation is everything.
Got it! Thanks…