How to Get Noticed When Networking – Without Becoming a Nuisance: 3 Real-Life Success Stories
“How can I get noticed when I’m contacting alumni?”
“They just keep ignoring my emails! What should I do?”
“Won’t I sound desperate if I keep emailing the same person over and over again?”
Those are some of the most common questions I get.
So today, I’m going to show you how 3 separate individuals all got noticed when networking – without becoming nuisances.
I don’t mean that they necessarily won offers or interviews – but they did get responses in situations where they would have otherwise been ignored.
And getting those responses – and a chance to develop the relationships – means that they are far more likely to succeed in the future.
Case 1: The Friend of a Friend Method for Contacting Busy People
This one happened to me 2 weeks ago when I was in the middle of the Breaking Into Wall Street launch and working about 18 hours per day putting everything together, answering questions, and ensuring that the sky did not fall.
Here’s the exact email I received:
A university student (we’ll call him “Chris” to make this anonymous) whom I had never met before remembered that one of his friends (who had graduated a few years ago) mentioned “knowing the guy behind Mergers & Inquisitions.”
Some would sit on this information – but Chris was not one of them.
In the midst of recruiting, he was in discussions with one firm and needed advice on a specific strategy he wanted to use to boost his chances of getting an offer – so he emailed me a few days before I received the message above.
Since I was incredibly busy with another project at the time, I couldn’t respond immediately and planned to get back to him by the end of the week.
He probably thought I was ignoring him, so he “supplemented” his approach with a smart strategy: he contacted a mutual friend who happened to know us both (in real life):
He got lucky in one respect: the girl he emailed happened to be a good friend rather than just an acquaintance – so I was much more inclined to respond.
However, I still would have been more likely to respond quickly to an acquaintance rather than to someone I had never met before.
And sure enough, I responded to his “time-sensitive” question in time even though I only had a few minutes to spare that entire week.
How to Apply This Strategy in Your Recruiting Efforts: When you’re reaching out to different firms and building connections, don’t just stop at 1 person – if you can get 3-4 or more guys in one office and one firm talking about you, you build a buzz and are far more likely to receive interviews and ultimately offers.
To an MD deciding whether to give someone an offer, there’s nothing more convincing than everyone else on his team saying, “Yes, we should.”
And, of course, if you can go through family friends or anyone who already has a relationship with the banker you stand a much better chance of getting noticed.
Case 2: Working Your Way Up the Totem Pole
This one doesn’t come from personal experience, but rather from one reader (“John”) who successfully broke into investment banking this past year.
Coming from an unknown school, he got into a bulge bracket bank because he started his recruiting efforts early - months before summer recruiting began, he started reaching out to alumni and friends and lining up informational interviews.
That helped, of course, and the relationships he developed from his networking efforts led to multiple offers and then signing on full-time with one of the few remaining bulge brackets.
But what helped him most was his approach to making the initial contact. I get questions all the time on “who is best to contact” at a bank – should you go for the more senior guys, or stick to Analysts and Associates at first?
My own view: MDs and higher-ups have a lot more pull and can therefore help you out more, but are often more hesitant to help you much at first or go out of their way to help you unless you have a killer connection or some other type of relationship first.
John’s solution to this was simple: he contacted Analysts first (since they were closest in age and experience). Then, after getting to know enough Analysts at a particular firm/office, he got referrals to Associates, and then moved his way up getting to know people at each level until he finally reached the top… and landed a ton of interviews.
How to Apply This Strategy: See above. One reason that a firm will often ignore you is because they don’t know who you are.
That may sound obvious, but you’d be surprised how many times I’ve seen students and professionals alike get surprised when no one responds to their cold emails.
But if you can say, “Inquiry – Referral from [NAME OF PERSON AT YOUR FIRM HERE]” in your subject (or even better yet, have the other person introduce you directly), your chances of getting a response immediately go up.
Case 3: Go to the Gym
Everyone knows you should be emailing alumni and going to informational sessions to network, right?
Well, maybe not.
Traditional ways of finding industry contacts can still work, but you maximize your chances and have a much better shot at getting noticed if you consider all your options.
One problem with conventional tactics is that everyone else is using them too, and the barrier to entry is low. You’ve seen it first-hand if you’ve ever gone to an information session and seen 20 people crowding around a single banker, all trying to get noticed.
Why not get around it entirely by starting your networking efforts elsewhere?
One reader (“Tom”) purchased several gym memberships this past year at an upscale area of his city.
His city was not a major finance center – we’re not talking about New York or London here – and before I heard from him I wasn’t even aware that there were banks in his area.
By joining gyms in nice areas of major cities, you’re bound to run into financiers – and that’s just what he did, meeting investment bankers, consultants, and even PE partners.
Through the connections he built at gyms, he got an internship at a boutique for the summer – which he was planning to start shortly.
Due to the poor economy, the offer went away and he had to pursue other alternatives. But then he used the connections he built at the gym once again, and he found another finance-related (though not banking) internship at the last minute.
How to Apply This Strategy: It’s difficult to “get through” to bankers via email and even the phone because they have their guard up most of the time.
If they get an email or call from a stranger asking about the industry or their own careers, they know that you are networking and ultimately trying to leverage the relationship to break in.
But if you can meet them informally – via the gym, for example – your chances of getting a good response go way up because they don’t assume that you are just trying to use them.
And it doesn’t have to be the gym – think about other sports or activities where you’re likely to meet bankers (golf is probably the next best example) and your chances will go way up if you approach it as if you’re making friends rather than looking for a job.
Not Getting Noticed?
Tell us all about it. Ask a question or leave a comment below, and get some ideas on how to boost your own response rate.
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Hello!-
My question is, how do propose a deal of purchasing a non-performing note to a banker?
Maybe it’s just because I missed my coffee today, but what do you mean? I’m not sure I follow you or know what those terms are…
In other articles you express the importance of follow-up e-mails and calls after meeting with representatives at info sessions. However, I get the general feeling that e-mails would almost always be preferred to actual calls; if an Analyst or Associate (or God forbid, an MD) were to receive a call from an undergrad asking ‘how best to land an interview’ during normal recruiting season, wouldn’t they just ask the undergrad to go through the normal process and submit their resume online?
Also, the follow up e-mails I’ve been sending have been rather neutral, mentioning a topic we talked about, but haven’t been forward as you’ve suggested. Would it be considered inappropriate to ask, in a follow up e-mail, how exactly to obtain an interview?
If you have 0 prior relationship with the person, then yes, it might be weird to call and ask about how to get an interview… but if you’ve spoken to them before, made a good impression, etc. then it’s fine. Similarly, it’s also fine to ask via follow-up email how to get an interview – in fact I recommend doing that when you “make the ask” after speaking with them on the phone.
Hi Brian, looks like this is a great site. I’ve read almost all “core content” below, and started to prepare for networking. Here’s something I want to ask you about.
I’m a student in a Singapore and I found 2 boutiques in the city that are interesting. First, the summer is almost over and I did some totally different internship. Never mind that because one open internship is in August, which means I still have a chance. The thing is, I just finished my freshman year and waiting to go on Sophomore. I’m just afraid this firm won’t care, but if I don’t contact and apply, maybe next year they won’t be hiring any interns and then I’ll lose the only chance. How do I tell them my being a freshman doesn’t matter that much? I have 3.6 overall GPA and a perfect major GPA (economics), with only a little working experience and quite unrelated.
2 technical questions:
1. I noticed on this regional boutique M&A firm there’s an internship opening with very brief things like
“XXX offers internships giving real responsibilities and a sense of what you would be doing as a full-time employee. We offer internship positions for a period of three to four months.
The next available internship position will start from mid-August 2010.
Applicants should email their resume and cover letter to HR@XXX.COM”
And then on their website I found email-address of the founder who’s also the MD, a VP, 2 “senior advisors” who obviously worked in other firms as directors. In addition, since you said cold-emailing will usually be ignored, I searched for their phone number and got the MD’s from his country’s chamber of commerce.
Now, can I just call the MD directly? Or should I email the MD first, as well as the VP, and then call the MD? I don’t think the senior advisors are going to be very helpful because they have other business to run. And I guess getting the MD’s number from some weird source doesn’t sound nice, so how do I explain it? Just say “I searched on Google and found your contact from the chamber of commerce because you are their VP”?
2. Another interesting boutique (it’s 10 minutes walk from my school…) has a less promising and smaller business, but they leave three contact numbers on the website–their CEO and two Directors. I’m pretty sure that I’m gonna call them, but who do I start with? The CEO or the directors?
Thanks a lot. Look forward to hear your answer!
I would just call directly, just say that you found his number on the site if he asks. Start with the highest-level person, so the CEO is better for #2. Just propose the work as a “trial” for them to remove risk and mention how you can help out so that age/year in school is a non-issue.
Thanks a lot!
I’ll call the MD and the CEO as soon as I have time.
I recently sent an email to this person but addressed another guy’s name in the email. He replied within a couple of minutes and asked me who I was trying to address (seriously, I think this is the only thing that got him respond to my email ’cause I normally don’t receive that many responses lol). I sent back a polite sorry email, but haven’t heard back. Is there anything I can do now? And will I be blacklisted at that firm?
You won’t be blacklisted, but there isn’t much you can do to fix this – just forget about it and move on.
can you say to the person that you made a mistake and want to talk to him?
Better not to even point it out / remind him
Hey Brian,
I have been emailing a couple of my school’s alumni every day and I’m finally starting to get a couple replies.
Most of them have said that they have 10-20 minutes for a short conversation on the phone. What specific information should I try to get from them during these short 20 minutes? You also said that you should seem more like a friend than just someone pestering them about every little detail about their school and work life.
What are a couple good questions to ask to find out more about their hobbies/interests etc?
Thanks again!
John
Look at the articles on informational interviews under Recruiting / go to The Networking Ninja Toolkit page and look at the sample interview there
I am currently a summer analyst at a well known boutique but would like to make a transition to a BB for full-time next year. Do BB banks all recruit through their NYC offices? Specifically, would I have an edge if I opted for a different location? And if so, how would I go about contacting the recruiters (again, assuming they are not all headquartered in NYC)? Thanks.
You might have a slight edge if you apply for non-NYC locations but fewer people apply to begin with so the odds balance themselves out. Just find recruiters’ names in those other offices (ask people at different schools, look on the website, etc.) and call them directly.
Hey M&I,
I can already tell you’re going to be critical about this.
I am currently a freshman in high school near SF, and an aspiring investment banker. Through reading comments similar to this, I can tell that your suggestion for people like me is to live our life, not worry about careers and focus on grades and having fun, which I 100% agree with! All I am curious to know is what I should be doing if I want a head-start. What should I do regarding college, reading, etc.? Just in case there’s something I should keep in mind while I also enjoy my high school years. Thank you so much!
You can check IBankingFaq.com for additional reading / resource suggestions
Hi, congrats on the site, finding it really helpful.
I’m student at a respected university in the UK (The BB’s do recruit from there). I’ll be able to bag a 2.1 honours degree and with a huge effort maybe a 1st. I’ve interned a couple summers at one of the Big 4 in mostly audit and a little bit of TS. Before that I’d done a summer at a small (about £500m under management)broking and investment management firm. My high school grades are average. What are my chances of getting noticed on application at the BB’s in NY? Alternatively I’ve though about qualifying as a chartered accountant and then getting into banking?
Any advice would be great, cheers!
You have a decent chance, being a CA would not help much for the US
Hey Brian,
I’ve read all the articles on networking and i still have a question that i can’t find the answer for: You mention that we should begin networking with the analysts first by emailing and setting up info interviews. However, how do we first get the bankers’ initial contact info? Should I just call the bank or what?
Thanks
Alumni database, LinkedIn, Capital IQ / Factset if you have access, Google boutique websites, ask family/friends/professors, talk to student groups, join professional groups like the CFA Society….
Hi Brian,
I managed to get in contact with a former fund manager who has deep market influence in the market here (australia).. I sent him off an email and the initial reply was warm; he offered to help me with my search for work experience/internships. Unfortunately, a series of emails later, he keeps postponing and this has been going on for around 5 months but not once has he ignored me.
I sent off an email just to arrange the meeting for the month he had set and has since said he hasn’t forgotten but would be in touch in a few weeks. A few weeks has rolled by.. and I haven’t heard any word.
What do i do now? should i abandon or just keep pressing? I was doing some searching and managed to find a phone number attached to his name. Or is this some kind of gordon gekko type testing? ie nag him for 50 days straight to prove myself worthy.
Can you call him directly and ask? I would just use the phone number you found and call him. Chances are he wants to seem nice but is really busy with other stuff and can’t spend much time on this – if you call him that cuts through the delays and gets you an immediate answer.
thanks, I might have to do it.
Im guessing its a bad idea to call him on a weekend? If so, what do i say without sounding pushy? Like would I just come out bluntly and just say it? Or should i try to establish conversation.. I know you dig the direct kinda style but i have been direct in my emails and it seems to have failed.
I wouldn’t call on a weekend. Just call and say that you realize he’s been busy and wanted to save him time on email back-and-forth, so you’re calling directly to speak with him if he has a few minutes to spare.
I currently attend a CC in Nyc and I’m a sophomore. However, I’m afraid if I were to apply for a back office internship for next summer, people would see the school I attend and automatically decide not to bother with me. (I do plan on transferring to a target next year). What do you think I should do?
Then wait to apply until after you transfer.
Brian,
I’m a graduating senior looking for an analyst position at an investment bank. I am curious as to the recruitment dates for most investment banks. Like typically, if I submitted applications late august early September, when would I start hearing from banks? Also, do they generally contact candidates that live farther away and out of state last?? Any response would be appreciated.
Most banks finish full-time recruiting in September/October. If you just applied online and you do not go to a target school, you will not get interviews – you need to pound the pavement and start calling / talking to people there rather than just applying online.
For a majority of my applications I sent them to an email address, and have continued to follow up with 2nd response letters, I’m not hearing no’s, but I haven’t heard a yes. Considering it’s November 1, is it still possible for an out of state candidate to secure a position?
It is unlikely at this point. You have to be extremely aggressive to do well with networking – finance is not an industry where you just submit a letter online and get in. You need to go there in-person, do weekend trips, get introduced to others in the office, and so on.
Okay I hear what you’re saying. I think you are absolutely correct with weekend trips and getting introduced to other people in the office. I’m content knowing that I won’t be able to start a banking position next July, but if I correctly go about this I’ll be top of the list of candidates next year. So now I have 1 yr to secure a position in the next class.
Do you think that i could fly out to the career fairs/recruiting events on the school campuses that these companies are recruiting from? Would the participating schools even allow me to attend, I figure you would have to be registered for events like that.
What other options do I have to meet employees that work for the bank when I have absolutely no connection?
Would it be frowned upon if i sent messages and added employees that I find on websites like “linkedin”?
Some schools are strict about that, some are not – but if you’re persistent enough you can always find a way in (e.g. use someone else’s ID). Other than that, you can use LinkedIn, online databases, cold-calling and other sources… see the Networking category in the FAQ on this site.
Hello, sorry for asking you to give advice on my specific question but your site has been really helpful and I feel like you would be a good person to ask. This is regards to getting a summer internship at a Investment Banking firm.
My best friend and I have transferred to Berkeley for Business school as transfers and we had no opportunities in finance previously. Lately, we have worked on going to as many information sessions as possible and getting cards. However, when writing emails with these people the conversations are normally light and end with the single email. Him and I are unsure what to do beyond that point if they just thank you for the email and for talking with them at the information sessions.
Furthermore, in regards to transferring, as mentioned I have little finance experience and I am unsure how to make ourselves stick out from ‘the pack’. We are both interested in looking to work for a boutique bank during the this or next semester to look better for a summer internship but our time this semester is filled with school and next semester I only have Thursday after 10am and Fri after 11am open, which makes me doubtful they would want you. Is it worth pursuing something even though, by the time it would be possible to even get a boutique internship Summer Internships recruiting will be going on at the same time and we could only show that we had started the position and not done anything?
I apologize for making this overly situational but I would greatly appreciate any tips you would have. Also, i have just started reading through this site so I apologize if my questions are redundant.
Thanks,
Trent 11-10-10
You have to change around your schedule as necessary to work at boutiques… there are millions of people competing for banking jobs, why would they pick you if you think school is more important? For your other questions, please see this page under Networking: http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/recruiting
Hi,
One of my uncle’s old friends is a managing director for Macquarie Group in Singapore. I’m about to finish my commerce/arts degree in june, and wanting to get a job in either investment banking or corporate finance advisory. I’m going on exchange to Singapore in February and will hopefully be able to organize a meeting with him. What would be the best way to utilize this contact to the greatest advantage?
Just do the usual, ask about his background, how he got to where he is, and then how you can position yourself for an interview with his firm at the end. See the informational interview guide.
Hey thank you so much ive been learning alot from your articles. Im currently a junior at a semi-target school, my question is how you would go about leveraging contacts or connections. I know this may sound elementary, but i have a cousin who works at Goldman Sachs and another at JP Morgan, and my parents are always telling me I should contact them and see how they could help. The problem is that i would feel awkward just asking them to help me get an internship, and i was wondering if there are certain ways you would go about leveraging your contacts.
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-informational-interviews/
I contacted a PE partner for an informational interview. I was introduced to her via a mutual friend. After speaking with her on the phone, she was very impressed and mentioned i could stop by whenever i was around in her city. I emailed her about three times on each occassion that i was around her city but got no response. Even called her office each time only to get the “she’s on a call..leave your name and number” from her assistant. Is it time to abandon ship? I think any further pursuit will annoy her which can look bad for me since we share a mutual friend. Thoughts???
Yes if she hasn’t responded I would move onto other leads at this point.
Before giving me referrals an MD asks me “what do I tell people? Ya I don’t know the kid but he seems ok, just talk to him.” He asked what my agenda/goal is in all of this so that he knows better what I’m after. If my goal is to develop long term relationships with these people, do I just tell him up front?
Sure just tell him upfront… if you’re going for something on the buy-side just be honest and tell him you’re thinking about it in the future (as long as analysts from your bank commonly do that)
Hi,
I have one year experience in investment research firm in London. The thing is that i want to move to Dubai, but what i found that they look for much more experienced guys. i have also applied online to no avail. I have done my Masters in Finance and currently pursuing CFA part time. What do you suggest for guy like me?
I also must say your website is quiet informative with regards to M&A.
Thanks
There are some tips on Dubai here: http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-dubai/
I see a job listed at a BB and will be applying. I also looked up the names/profiles of the MD’s of that specific department on their website. Should I try to contact the MD’s? Should I apply first and then email them after a week if I don’t hear anything from HR? Or should I just network with the HR contact? I’m very interested in this position and would like to secure an interview. Thanks.
I would email them first, say you saw the opening, and ask about it. Ask to set up a quick call to find out more and ask about their background. Skip HR.
What should I ask though? I want to have at least a good reason for contacting him/her. Does emailing an MD this way ever hurt someone’s chances? Like if the MD gets annoyed, etc?
Your reason is that you saw the opening, wanted to contact them directly and find out more. No one will be offended, they will either ignore it or think you’re enterprising and will be impressed.
hey brian,
I have a family friend who works at a small boutique bank in toronto who I have talked to about I-banking before. She said I shouldn’t bother applying for her company because it was really small and they dont get many deals. In this case, should I bother asking her for some kind of reccomendation? She discouraged me before I even asked her about it, but I haven’t gotten any other offers and I figure a summer at a small bank is better than nothing.
Sure just ask her for referrals if she is not open to you working there.
I’ve recently started to build my network in investment banking as I want to break into this field too.
Most of the people I have been introduced to (through close friends) were very responsive during the first contact and approached our first conversations informally and relaxed, as if I were a friend.
I have since had a hard time getting responses from them. Each one’s personality is substantially different and I am a little confused on the best method to follow up/persist with each one.
With the dynamic of the introductions…should my interactions with them be formal or, because of the nature of our introduction, am I able to seek out their help in the form of a mentor/friend?
Thank you in advance.
B
You don’t have to be formal… for follow-up less is often more, just stay on their radar every few months. If it’s last minute and you don’t have much time left, just be more direct and ask directly what they have open and how to position yourself for an interview there
M&I,
I recently had an interview at a major IB in NYC for a position that hasn’t even been posted yet. the interview went very well lasting almost 3.5 hours speaking with the MD an Associate and 1st year analyst. They told me their division is planning on hiring an analyst at the end of summer, handed me their business cards and the MD said to call him. I wrote thank you emails to each employee I met with and sent out handwritten thank you letters after my flight home. I have had one response from the 1st year analyst and have shared a few emails back and forth. I know that I have impressed the three individuals I met with but how do I maintain contact and keep me in the back of their minds, especially the MD when the time to hire (4 months) comes around?
M and I
Hey, I am currently about to enter my second year of community college. I will be applying for my transfer this year to my top choices, many which are ibanking feeders. I am very confident in my performance so far at my cc and hopefully I should be able to get in to those schools. I was wondering whether it could help grab the attention of people at these banks if I start contacting them now? Should I refrain until I get into my schools of choice, or should I start anyway?
Thanks
Yeah I would refrain until you actually get accepted
One of my previous baseball coaches is the COO or CTO of a large investment bank. How can I leverage this connection even though I have not spoken to him in 8 years.
Contact him again, ask for a time to catch up and at the end of the conversation mention something about remembering that he was in IB and ask about it casually.
Sorry, but needed to ask a question. You said it’d be best to cold-call MDs, but wouldn’t that piss them off? Are they usually receptive to speak to random strangers looking to get an interview? Cuz, I recently spoke with an alum and I asked him what his opinion of people like me cold-calling an MD. He strongly said that I shouldn’t do that. He said it was an easy way to piss off an MD and my chances of getting an interview and i should cold-call analysts.
It varies by person. Some will get pissed and some won’t, but that’s life – if you don’t try, you’ll never know.
Hi, I have not taken a full course load in a long time due to family concerns. The most classes I have taken in a semester is 3. Will that hurt my chances for recruiting even though I have more than enough units to graduate due to summer community college classes and AP credits? Thanks
No, as long as you can explain why you haven’t taken a full course load. I’d suggest you to take a finance/accounting class, or/and acquire financial knowledge outside the classroom.
Hello M&I,
I have a few questions for you about my chances of breaking in and networking. Alright, I reside in Tulsa, Oklahoma currently attending community college and am going to transfer to The University of Oklahoma( Ranked 91 on US NEW Business school site.) I have a decent GPA of 3.2. I am currently working as a security gaurd at The Bank of Oklahoma Tower. during my shift I thought it might behove me to start walking into the office cubicals during my shift and picking up business cards. I have about a 100 now. direct numbers, and emails. Not just from B.O.K but also a few VERY Big B.B’s, Including MD’s, VP’s, Analyst, and Partners. Now My questions are should I use these, if so, how do I go about it? and Is community college or Oklahoma University going to hurt my chances? Thank you for your time.
Build a relationship with them. Be friends with them. Help them in whatever way you can. Share with them your career goals and ask them if they have any advice.
Oklahoma University isn’t a target school. However, with the right networks, you should be able to break into finance. Don’t focus too much on BBs, perhaps you can look at mid tiers or smaller firms too. I’d focus on building the network first.
Hi guys, huge fan of the site. I have used many of the guides on here to great success and have had several informational interviews over the summer. Now as recruiting season kicks into high gear, I was wondering if you could have a guide on how to ‘make the ask’ and properly leverage your contacts.
You should follow-up with specific questions, requests for referrals, or to ask for help getting an interview. And yes, when it’s recruiting season you really can just say:
“With recruiting approaching, I wanted to see how I could best position myself for an interview at your firm.” I presume you have already followed-up with the contacts you met over the summer? Follow-up again but don’t stalk them!
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-informational-interviews/
Hi Brian,
My IB friends told me that when talking to IB guys and trying to get their attention, throwing them good questions is crucial. But I always find myself hard to come up some “stellar” questions that will let them feel “wow”. Could you offer me some advice on that? Thanks.
When you are in an info session, it is hard to impress bankers because I think it is rare that they remember you given the # of people trying to raise questions. Always try to follow up w them 1×1 after group settings. When it comes to 1×1 settings, just treat a banker like any normal person – of course do your research, ask questions that you genuinely are interested in knowing. No point in faking or trying too hard to impress.
Re info sessions: check out http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-information-sessions/
Hi,
I am a final year student (Banking & Finance) in a non-targeted sch with avg grades. I tried to apply internships but there wasn’t much results since i had no previous IB experience.
Which is a better option?
Apply internship as a financial/security/equity analyst in some small boutiques after i graduate..
or
Apply for full time credit analyst position in a bank? (Easier to get in than financial analyst and similar skill sets? )
And how related is credit analyst to IB positions in the future supposed i want to exit as PE or M&A?
That means I can’t stay long as a CA (like 2-4 years) if i were to exit elsewhere if not I would be stuck for life as CA, right?
Thanks for helping me out.
I think you wld hv a higher chance applying to mid tier banks. Apply for full time jobs first. If that fails then apply for internships
Credit analyst positions is somewhat related but if you want to go to PE, M&A IBD is more relevant
Yes don’t stay long in the position if you want to do sth else. You don’t want to be pigeon-holed.
Hi there,
I’ve harassed a number of MDs at every firm in the new city I just moved to and they have finally all gotten back to me and said they’ve already hired or don’t need anyone.
Since I really want to break into investment banking, what do you suggest I do until next yr? What kind of work will get me noticed next yr so I can apply again. Should I just apply for random work in any other finance field? I feel so confused because I really thought I’d make it into some firm but unfortunately, not even small boutique firms are hiring.
I don’t want to do anything but IB but I can’t stay at home either and wait a whole year before re-applying.
What do you suggest?
I’m sorry to hear but keep on! I’d suggest you to continue to network with mid markets and boutiques. Don’t do any random work because it would be hard to spin your experience. How about say working for Big 4′s transaction services or perhaps (not ideal) back office for an IB first?
Better yet, have you also looked at equity/debt capital markets? Not pure IB but close enough for you to make the switch.
Hi,
Thanks for the fast reply on my previous post above.
You guys were saying I would have a higher chance to apply for a full time analyst job in MM banks instead of internship since i had no previous IB exp when i graduate.
However, its difficult to get into a proper full time IBD analyst position in a bank for my background. So, I could only apply for related positions to IB.
How do I know if I am in the correct analyst job able to leverage myself to PE? Is financial/security/equity analyst = IBD analyst?
I am planning an easier route for me to get some relevant experience first.
Thanks =)
credit analyst(2 years) >> financial/IBD analyst(2 years) >> PE associate?
Or is there any other route I can take at a totally fresh entry level?
No those are different from being IB analyst. Probably need to do IB first to have a good shot at PE, or shoot for smaller PE firms or ones that are looking for credit analysts (happens sometimes depending on the fund focus)
Thanks for quick replies =)
So your suggestion for me in this case (with a zero IB work experience) would be to get into a PE analyst in a small firm over being a credit analyst in a MM bank and hopping to IB, then PE?
I am graduating next year which leaves me no time for internship unless I do it after I graduate?
Don’t credit/financial/security analyst analyse the company’s balance sheets and industry prospects too, just like IB analyst?
Hello,
I have just finished my M.Sc. at Imperial College (widely regarded as the best science & technology university in Britain and perhaps the world), and I was happy to hear I was rewarded a distinction (A). The course was a technology course unrelated to business and finance. I have set my sight on financial services as a career vehicle, but recruiters are not responding to my applications. I find this a little odd, considering that I have a very good first degree in physics from Edinburgh. I was also in the trading and investment club and university, and have some experience in equities research. What could I do to make these recruiters a little more responsive?
Call them up and be aggressive in networking
Hey Brian,
For the past month, I have been scheduling calls with alumni from my school who work at BBs. They are mostly analysts, and a few associates. Are these the right people to be talking to? Or is it more important to find out who the recruiting team for my school is and contact them directly, such as the lead school recruiter. I go to a main target school. Thanks
I think you should speak to contacts who are VP level and above – they make the hiring decisions
Hi Brian,
I am in IT and at around my mid-career level. I am about middle age right now. My compensation ($100K +) is alright but nowhere close to investment bankers. I got an MBA about 8 yrs back. Was wondering if I should consider a career move to M&A at this stage of my life? If so, which particular discipline do you recommend? Any suggestions on getting my foot in?
It would be tough to move in 8 years after your MBA – I would maybe think about trying to move into a more business-oriented role such as corporate development or corporate finance at your current firm first or at least learning more about the industry on the side first.
Hello Brian & Nicole,
Thank you very much for your posts and replies to my previous comments . They are very informative and helpful!
In early December last year, at a career event, i had a chance to talk to someone whos working at the firm that i am applying tomorrow.
Although i have not tried catching up with him since, i think he would remember me because we talked for like 30 minutes and we were both koreans haha. He even told me to send him my resume when im close to gradauting.
I am really not sure how to start up the conversation with him again so i was wondering if you guys could give me some comments on the draft e-mail i wrote below…
“my name’s xx and i’m a senior student at xx univ.
I hope you have a vauge recollection of me from xx event . I had a pleasure to talk to you and
Recently, i’ve seen your firms hiring and i would very much appreciate if you could tell me more about the qualities that employers at ur firm’s looking for in candidates. The information provided in the job post was quite limited(it really is)as to what quality your firm is looking for in candidates.
Also, could you please give me some tips on the interview?”
thank you
xxxx”
haha sorry that was long haha but im really nervous and i really want to get this job!!
Could you please give me some comments on that e-mail above?
Thank you very much !
If you want the job, I’d just email him and say that it was your pleasure speaking w him at [XX event] (don’t talk about the vague recollection stuff). Say that you heard that his firm is hiring and ask if their team would be interested in someone with your background. Then say please see attached your resume for his perusal.
I was able to aquire a job at a middle market firm but am in an administrative type role. I have a dual major in finance and economics (just graduated a year ago) from USF and am enrolled to take level 1 of the CFA. I have tried to reach out but have been unsuccessful besides two I-bankers I met. Any suggestions on an efficient strategy to break in to I-banking at my firm?
Try to gain some sort of internship experience in finance be it paid or unpaid. Continue networking and be persistent
I am a 19 year old student currently attending Hillsbrough college in Sheffield. I do have some ambitions of becoming an investment banker but I feel a little intimidated and overwhelmed by the immense competition. What would anyone advise me to do given my current situation?
I’d chill out and try to transfer to a target school like Oxford/Cambridge/LBS to increase your chances. I’d also read up a lot on banking and figure out why you want to break in (I don’t believe money alone is a sufficient answer unless you can make a really strong pitch to interviewers).
I had a question about networking. Say you are interested in going into TMT banking or ECM or something. Should you only network with those with similar interests? Or contact whoever you can and speak to them anyway? e.g. if you are genuinely not interested in Healthcare would it be a bad idea to try to network with Healthcare bankers? Even though you may be interested in working where they work…?
Network with people in the area you are interested in working at. But if you do happen to know bankers in other areas, still network with them because they might know other bankers who can help you too!
I got a reply from an MD at a BB first time round, is this unusual? I had no connection and the email was completely unsolicited.
Yes it is relatively unusual but I wouldn’t over-think it.
Once you have the interview and you start your internship, is it guaranteed you will get a job at the firm? I see a lot of people jump from firm to firm with internships. Is it because they can’t get a job there, is it becuase the firm doesn’t like them?
No. Those may be reasons. Or they may not like their internship experience and want to move to something else
I recently transferred to UC Berkeley-Haas as a junior. I have made a number of contacts through family and friends, but wanted to increase it through the Haas alumni network. Do you think it is okay to start contacting them despite no experience at Berkeley?
Yes!
Brian,
love your site–
networking question for you: last saturday (it is now thursday) i was introduced to a PE guy in the oil/energy industry, which is the industry i would like to do VC/PE in eventually. i have yet to start my first year of my bachelor degree at a well known UK uni. since this was at a party, he was somewhat drunk, but very friendly. he gave me his card and said to email him as it was too loud to talk. i mentioned that i’m interested in doing VC in oil/energy, and i’m currently interning at a large private oil/chemical engineering firm.
i emailed him reminding him how we met (through a mutual friend), my interests in economics/politics/finance, and asked if he could share any advice/insight. he has yet to respond. should i just call him? i’m ultimately looking for an internship or more contacts.
thanks!!
Wait for a week. If he doesn’t respond, give him a ring but make sure you have a good pitch.
Hey,
I have been emailing alumni contacts, but they haven’t really been responding. I don’t really know why.
Most of the emails are along these lines. Should I edit them, or are they okay.
“My name is Ilyas and I found your contact information through “insert blank”. I am a recent admit into the Haas Undergraduate School of Business. I have interned for Senator Darrell Steinberg doing legislative and constituent casework and I intern in an investment office in the Department of Insurance that seeks to increase insurance investment into community development projects on a regulatory basis. I am very interested in being on the side that creates the deals to help companies raise capital and I wish to pursue investment banking. Could you tell me more about your personal experience and what lead you to banking as well as why you chose “insert bank” over other firms? I would love to talk to you on the phone this week if you have some time.”
You may want to fine tune your email. Our Networking Ninja program has a good email template you can check out http://breakingintowallstreet.com/biws/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/network-investment-banking-mistakes/ is another link you can check out
Hi Brian,
I wanted to use Thanksgiving vacation next week to contact some alumni, as well as follow up with some I have not talked to for 2 or 3 months. I will send them a note via email but am not sure how to make it sound personal but also appropriate. Thanks you.
These articles should help:
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/cold-calling-investment-banking/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/turn-cold-calls-warm-follow-up-alumni-conversations/
Brian,
This is an excellent and informative website, thank you for creating it.
I have an undergraduate science major, a master’s in engineering, and am currently earning a law degree. I am really interested in working with start-up biotech companies.
Currently, I have a job lined up with a large intellectual property law firm. How long do you think I should stay at the Firm until I can leverage that experience into a VC or PE position, or do you think I should spend as little time there as possible. Further, do you think it is a tremendous detriment that I don’t have an MBA?
Thanks in advance for your guidance.
It is hard to say, but I might stay in that firm for 2 years and network a lot with IB firms so you can move into IB first before jumping into PE. Of course, there’s an option for you to spend as little time at the firm as possible and apply for VC/PE roles though interviewers may be curious why you want to make the switch and would want you to demonstrate some sort of experience operating/running companies or deal experience. I don’t think its a detriment you don’t have an MBA though as you progress in VC/PE pedigree is important so an MBA from a target will help. Please see below articles you may find useful.
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/breaking-and-entering-into-finance-part-ii-the-lawyer/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/private-equity-recruiting/
Hi Brian/Nicole,
I am about to send out some cold emails at various banks to inquire about summer internships. I have completed a 6-month internship with a boutique in NY and would like to do another internship at a “brand name” boutique or a bulge bracket.
Having access to CapIQ, I have an extensive list of people at various banks and their email adresses.
Who should I be contacting? MDs or Associates/Analysts?
Thanks so much for all the replies and advice you have given me in the past btw!
I would contact VP level and above because they usually make the hiring decisions. Analysts and associates are useful to a certain degree that they may be able to give you the low down on what their life is like and what you’ll be expected to do if you were to join their firm. This information is also useful for interviews.
Hi Brian,
I’ve run into a predicament, and I feel as if I am becoming a nuisance in my current situation.
Last summer (the summer between my freshmen and sophomore year) I had an internship at a firm, and I loved everything about it. Great people, great work, great hours (surprising I know). On my last day, I requested my MD for an exit interview, and we met for lunch. Everything went well, and he told me to keep in touch over the year. I took this as a possibility of employment for the next summer. I have been e-mailing back and forth, and asked if he would be taking on another intern this summer. He replied that he was not sure if it was in the budget, and that he would reply in 2-3 weeks time. A month and a bit passed, and I followed up stating that I was still interested. I have not received an e-mail in over a week, and I feel like sending another e-mail would be a nuisance. What would your advice be? Thanks!
Can you call him and ask? Rather than trading emails, I would just call him, say you’re really interested and ask what their status for the summer is.
Brian, your a clever man. I don’t know how I overlooked this! Thanks!
If you have the opportunity to get an MBA from a top school in the States, I’d probably do so because this will increase your chances quite significantly. Otherwise, be persistent and cold call as many firms as you can – this may help you http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-india/