What If You Don’t Get a Return Offer From Your Investment Banking Summer Internship?
Or should you?
As summer internships finish up and full-time recruiting begins, this is one question that always comes up:
What should you do if you don’t get a return offer?
A lot of what you should do is obvious – so first, let’s take a look at what not to do.
Lie About It
The problem here is that you can be caught very easily – especially if you worked at a large bank, where your offer status is just a phone call to a friend away.
Yes, people do lie about their offer status and sometimes they get away with it.
But is it worth the risk?
No.
Tell the Whole Truth
If you didn’t get an offer – whether it’s because no one got offers, or because you watched YouTube all day and never did anything – you will need to learn how to spin what really happened.
Some ideas:
- “The market was bad” is actually a weak excuse unless you can truthfully say that absolutely no one received offers, or that your bank just doesn’t take on full-timers for whatever reason.
- It’s usually better to say something like, “I did well, got good reviews, and enjoyed the work, but wanted to be put in such-and-such group instead…”
- Another approach is to cite the culture and say you performed well, but would fit in better with the people you’re interviewing with right now.
- If the bank never told you one way or the other, you have a very easy way to spin the truth – just say that they are not telling interns for now, and while you enjoyed working there, you think you’d be better off in the group you’re interviewing with because…
In all cases you should focus on the positive aspects of whatever you actually did, and then also link in the positives of the place you’re interviewing at.
Apply to the Same Firm Again
This only works if you worked in one group at a large bank, didn’t get an offer there, and know people elsewhere really well and are certain that news won’t spread to their group.
Sometimes banks are actually disorganized enough to let this happen, and I’m sure there are some people who have won offers like this.
But if you worked at Goldman Sachs Investment Banking and didn’t get a return offer, you shouldn’t bother applying there once again.
What are they going to learn in 4 hours of interviews that they wouldn’t already know from 10 80+ hour weeks?
Think You’re a Failure and Dwell On It
Not getting a return offer after a summer internship is one of the least serious setbacks you’ll ever experience. Other setbacks that are worse:
- Getting laid off as an underperforming VP – very tough to get back into finance.
- Getting laid off 3 months after you started working – hard to find something else.
- Not getting an internship in the first place.
- Breaking your leg and having to go in for interviews anyway.
- Having both computers break and losing all your data while creating a new product, in the midst of traveling (this just happened to me).
The whole process can be very random and political, especially in certain groups – so don’t take it personally, unless it really was your fault (you kept screwing up your comps repeatedly).
Wait to Hear Whether or Not You’re Actually Getting an Offer
This one is counter-intuitive, but consider the following:
- Traditionally, banks tell interns about return offers on the last day or in the last week, and sometimes earlier than that.
- Some banks (Goldman being the most famous example) like to delay telling people for months, even when the market is good.
- These days, a lot of other banks are adopting the same approach – so you may not know definitively for a few weeks to a few months.
You need to be very careful about relying on hearsay. Until you sign the dotted line, anything could happen.
Rather than waiting to hear, you need to hedge yourself by applying to other places and then making “Plan B” scenarios in case nothing works out (see below).
Rely on On-Campus Recruiting
If you go to a school that actually has on-campus recruiting, you might be tempted to just rely on this process to get another offer.
The problem: everyone else – including those without banking internships – is doing the same thing.
If you want to stand out, you need to go around the standard channels and speak directly with recruiters at other banks (more on this below).
So What to Do Then?
Ok, so those are a couple of the more common mistakes to avoid with return offers.
Now for what to do in case you already know, or anticipate, that you won’t get a return offer:
Find Out Why
First, you need to find out why you really didn’t get a return offer – not just the story that your MD or HR told you. These days it’s very common to say that it was due to “market conditions,” when in reality it might be because you kept screwing up.
Rather than going through recruiters, it’s usually more helpful to go to your friends and anyone you know well and do some reconnaissance to figure out why you really didn’t get an offer.
This helps you in 2 ways:
- You can then come up with more stories / support during interviews to explain your situation and address any “objections” that interviewers might have.
- It shows you who might actually be a good reference for you (see below) and who would be useless.
Get References
If you actually did well and everyone liked you, but you just didn’t get an offer for political reasons or anything else outside your control, getting references will be huge.
Finding bankers who can back up how good you are, tell others about it, and then also refer you to their friends is huge and is often the difference between getting a job somewhere else and getting nothing.
Of course, you can’t do this if you didn’t get an offer because you really did watch YouTube all day at work.
Network… Aggressively
Forget about trying to build relationships and asking about your friend’s ski trip to Colorado – if you need a full-time offer ASAP, then you have to be more direct with your networking.
The best way to do this: contact recruiters at large banks directly, say you interned at such-and-such bank, and that you want to know how to position yourself for an interview at their firm due to looming deadlines.
Leave it vague and avoid discussion of whether or not you got an offer until it actually comes up in interviews – and when that happens, justify it by using some of the reasons given above.
If you’re looking at smaller banks as well, you can just cold-call / cold-email them and explain very briefly where you interned and that you want to interview with them.
And if you already have decent relationships with bankers, you should ask about an accelerated interview process given your internship.
But Hedge Yourself, Just In Case
You stand a significantly better chance of getting a full-time offer if you’ve already done an internship… but things don’t always work out, so you always want to hedge yourself just in case:
- Consider autumn (more common in Europe), school-year, or unpaid internships that might turn into full-time offers.
- Look outside banking and consider trading, consulting, and other fields that could get you into business school.
- The Master’s Program option.
- And yes, the ever-popular ski bum alternative as well.
One reason I recommend starting to recruit ASAP rather than waiting for on-campus recruiting is that these methods are all time-consuming (ok, except for the last one), and you don’t want to overwhelm yourself with options… focus on what you actually want first.
Don’t Panic?
You might be tempted to press the “panic” button if you don’t get a return offer, but you should resist the urge to do so (or anything else similarly drastic) – it’s not the end of the world, and it’s easier to overcome compared to other setbacks.
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Perfect timing with this article! I’ve still got two days of my internship, but I’m worried that market conditions and near-future downsizing will prevent me from getting a paid return offer, so I really appreciate this article in case that happens — thanks!
Hi Brian,
Quick question: how do you “contact recruiters at large banks directly”, I am interning at a BB now and would like to be fastracked for FT recruiting but have no friends interning at other banks that can provide contact info, what do you reckon ?
Cheers,
B
If you don’t have friends at those places, you need to look online, go through your school’s career center if they have any contacts, even ask around on message boards… you would be surprised what simple Google searches can turn up.
What exactly do you mean by “accelerated interview process”? Of course, the title is somewhat self-explanatory, but more specifically, does this mean they would cram fit and technical questions into a single 30 minute interview?
Also, about getting references, what exactly does this process entail? Should I go up to my employers and just ask them for letters of recommendation? Or maybe LinkedIn recommendations? Are these recommendations just written for me while not addressed to anyone in particular or written for any specific cause?
I’m really sorry that these questions sound so silly, but I actually don’t know… thanks for the article!
No, it means interviewing now, ASAP, as opposed to waiting until the fall.
References should be very informal, no need for a letter or anything – just ask if they’d be willing to support you if you’re talking to other banks.
What if you had an MD write a recommendation letter for you as a pdf and when talking to firms you mention the letter and maybe they will want to see it. Could this be worthwhile or is it weird to send?
If they ask for it, sure, go ahead – but if they don’t say they want to say it I would probably not send it.
Hi,
Thanks for the article. I was wondering what you thought of the public finance group in a major bank GS/MS/JPM in terms of exit opportunities (PE or HF). Thanks again.
I don’t know much about public finance but generally the opportunities are not as good as other areas
Also, how easy/difficult is it to switch groups within a bank after 1 or 2 years. I just don’t want to be pigeon holed too early.
Thanks again.
You need to do a ton of networking and find someone to push for you to be put in their group… if you don’t have that it’s really tough
Last question I promise. :)
I had an interview with a BB about 4 days ago for FT. Will they call/email if I get rejected? Or do you just assume after sometime that you didn’t get it? Thanks a ton man. I really appreciate this.
Wait a second…you have an interview already? Who could possibly be doing interviews now? Now I feel like I’m behind.
I would follow-up if you don’t hear back within a week… sometimes they don’t really notify you if you’re rejected or on the waiting list.
Relax dude, I am international, non-target, and have no banking internships. I am the last person you should be worried about.
They were supposed to get back to me by the end of the week(which is tomorrow). I’ll tell you which bank it is once I hear back.
I’m currently working as a summer analyst at a bulge bracket bank, and they told us that we will not find out whether we’ll get offers until sometime in September. Do you think I should try to get a fast track interview before on campus recruiting or should I wait until I hear back from the firm I’m working with (and risk not getting an offer and having to admit that in an interview)?
Definitely try to get early interviews – I would not risk waiting.
Are you in NYC or London ?
I still have no clue how to reach HR from other banks, its quite hard especially when you work 20h a day….
Anyone has HR contacts in London ?
Brian,
Do you anything on why some people are interviewing full time already? Most banks I have spoken with told me to apply in September.
Anyone interviewing early has recruiting contacts / has done a lot of networking – a lot of them have had IBD summer internships and are now trying to move elsewhere.
You can still get in if you wait until September, though interviewing now will boost your chances.
hey senior,
It was JPM and I got rejected. Can’t believe I screwed up the final round.
Hey Brian,
A large PE firm just invited me for a pre-recruitment-season dinner. Any specific tips (vs. the ones for regular on-campus info sessions)?
Sorry, one more thing. Just finished an trading internship at a big asset-mgt shop; any specific pointers for someone trying to break into PE/banking from trading (i.e. how to leverage trading experience for banking)? Thanks!
No, just be yourself, be a normal person, and talk about stuff outside work… travel, hobbies, sports, etc.
From trading to PE/Banking, try to highlight any corporate finance experience you had, any type of analysis of companies you did as opposed to short-term trading and trading based on momentum etc.
If you have a contact who works in the Chicago office of a firm, is it ok to tell them you want to be in nyc and can you ask them to be referred to their counterparts there? I’m thinking this might not look good. It’s not only a matter of preference, but sheer numbers in that they have many more analysts in NY.
You can ask but they may not know anyone in NYC – I would generally only do that if you know the person well and are 100% certain you don’t want to be in Chicago
Brian,
I received an offer from a middle-market bank that I interned at this summer, but they have given me a mid-September deadline to accept. How should I proceed if I want to go through the interview process (which will likely start right before the deadline) without giving up my offer? I don’t want to wait until after the deadline while interviewing with other banks, and then get stuck with nothing since it is so competitive. Thanks.
Then start contacting recruiters elsewhere right now, tell them what your deadline is, and say you want to work there but need to know before then. If you get a better offer, take it, but if not just go with the MM offer.
What if you don’t get an offer (because they’re not hiring analysts) and want to get early interviews. If you suggest you have a deadline, and they ask you for details about why, what do you say?
I doubt they will ask, but just say you need to respond to other offers but don’t say exactly why… if they press you, just say, “An opportunity came up through a referral and I need to respond within the next month – I do like it, but would prefer this instead.”
If they ask you, “So did you get an offer from your internship?” don’t lie about it, instead say it’s something different and that you need to respond soon.
hey brian, is it possible to get the offer that you receive after your summer internship rescinded if the firm that extended it found out that you were shopping it? is shopping an offer common enough that the firm doesn’t get too upset? also, if recruiters ask for a reference, is it a good idea to give one at the firm that you just interned at? thanks for the help!
The chances of that are pretty low, because unless the deadline is immediate they almost expect you to shop it around or explore other options…. so I would not worry too much.
If you ask around and find out your firm has actually done this before, maybe be more careful. Obviously you don’t want to tell them “Hey I’m shopping my offer around” but you don’t need to pretend you’re the CIA to hide it.
As far as references: I would be really careful with this because it could backfire if they actually speak with someone there… recruiters should understand the sensitivity of the situation and I would avoid it if you can – just give a reference from a previous internship.
If you really want to be in NYC, but get an early phone interview at a BB Chicago office, should you just play along and get an offer (and then hopefully have a nyc offer somewhere else to use as leverage), or tell them straight-up that you are looking at new york? Is it even possible to get an offer in their Chicago office and ask to be in NY?
Starting in New York is important to me…I think there are huge benefits to getting the wall street experience and launch your career. I’d rather have a small firm in NYC than a bulge bracket in Chicago.
If you want NY that badly, I would just tell them in the beginning that you are more interested in NY and see if they can refer you to anyone there.
When the economy was better people actually did that and interviewed at one place before switching to another, but these days I think it would be pretty hard.
Is there a way to phrase ‘i would rather be in your ny office’ in a way that would lead them to refer you rather than think you’re a douche for not wanting their office? i dont want to mess it up completely as i was referred by a banker at the firm i interned at. i already have other interviews in ny, if that is helpful to mention
Just say something positive at first “I really like this bank / these interviewers / the culture” etc. and then mention something in passing “By the way, I’m definitely open to more geographies if it’s possible – especially New York” and then close with something positive “Thanks again for this great interview experience” etc.
Also known as the “criticism sandwich”
Do C-level executives sons almost always get offers?
I am sorry. I mean client companies C-level executives sons. I am interviewing for one position and one of my competitors is the son of a CEO of a 5 billion dollar company. Do I have a chance?
Why wouldn’t you? If you go in thinking you don’t have a chance, you definitely won’t have a chance…
Yeah, sometimes they give offers to clients’ families etc. and there can be some nepotism, but that isn’t a good reason not to go forward with the interview anyway.
Along these lines.. If you don’t get a third year at your bank how should you hedge against this? Also, during private equity interviews, ie ones that probably could not LBO a company, $25M placements, what kind of questions would you expect? Anywhere to look for practice?
Yes, I would definitely hedge against not getting a 3rd year offer… especially these days. Of course you normally start interviewing before your first year ends, anyway…
For that type of interview I would still expect similar case study / investment-type questions – “Should we invest in this company?” and maybe being asked to create valuations and simple models showing their returns – it’s the same process, but their ownership stake is lower than with LBOs.
I worked at a boutique. Everyone else in my class heard back but I haven’t. Not even a rejection. Does this mean I don’t have an offer?
Most likely – sometimes they just don’t tell you if you don’t get an offer. I would start reaching out ASAP before FT recruiting begins (if it hasn’t already).
Hi,
I attend a semi-target and interned at an elite boutique. Unfortunately I was not able to get an offer. We are not really getting a lot of FT recruiting on campus. What kind of firms are realistic to aim at given my situation?
I would go for everything you can, no reason to only focus on lesser-known places… apply to everything and see what happens.
Hi,
I somehow struck lucky and have offers from three desks in the same BB after my summer. After weighing together exit opps, enjoyment, pay, prestige, work-life balance, learning opps, the team, hours, etc etc, I’m completely at a loss of what to take. I’d just like to ask what you would do in my situation; choice is between research, sales (equities), sales (credit).
Or do none of those roles have a bright future and I should start looking elsewhere asap? In 20 years time I want to be in public/industry/an entrepreneur so I guess my ambitions are slightly different from the banking/HF/PE crew.
Or would you give trade it all in for McKinsey? (even with your preference for IBD over Consultancy, Markets are completely different!)
Thanks!
Yeah I would not worry too much about this, I would probably go with Equities Sales but that is based on minimal knowledge of Sales & Trading… one point to consider, though, is that none of those roles are particularly good for getting into industry or starting your own company… they’re completely different. If that’s your goal, I would actually go with McKinsey.
Is this worth spending $50 on? It has contact info for HR at all the banks and I don’t know where else to get it. I suppose my school’s career office might have some of them.
http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ib_recruiters09.htm
Haha that is useless if you’re a student – recruiters don’t give a crap about you until you have more experience. List of banks might be useful, but recruiters are useless.
Didn’t you say that if we just finished a summer ibanking internship and want to move somewhere else we should directly contact HR/recruiters at the banks to get an accelerated interview? I’m not confused am I
Yes, but that list is for INDEPENDENT recruiters aka headhunters.
HR at banks will actually care about you, but HEADHUNTERS work on commission so they will not pay any attention to you.
That’s why I think such lists are useless for anyone at the entry-level – focus on lists of actual boutique banks and get HR contact info from your friends instead.
So I met someone at BX, in their private placement group, and tell him I just finished an ibanking internship. He gave me his card and I sent him an emailing asking if he could refer me to someone in M&A. He responds back that he cannot help me with this because of the Chinese wall which prevents them from communicating.
Am I in a dead end? Is there anything I can do here to at least get the email of someone relevant?
What the hell, there should be no Chinese wall between private placement and M&A – that makes no sense. That only exists between Equity Research and banking groups.
Sounds like he is BSing you – I would call him on it and say, “So you don’t know ANYONE in any other groups at your bank?”
There is no way he only knows people in the private placement group there.
Well it’s not that kind of private placement. It’s Park Hill, a subsidiary of Blackstone that is an asset placement agent, basically helping PE and HF funds fundraise.
I would still push him on it and verify that he really knows no one else… sounds very strange to me.
Hey Brian,
Just wondering if going for an internship at a bulge bracket firm gives someone a significant advantage over someone who has interned at a boutique firm.
Thanks!
A better name gives you an advantage but the difference is not enormous… you’ll still get interviews etc.
I have been trying to contact HR recruiters at different banks for an ‘accelerated interview process’. Banks that normally come to campus usually have an assigned campus recruiter that actually respond to emails/picks up the phone. It is a lot harder for other firms. Calling or emailing general HR doesn’t seem worthwhile. How do you go about asking for early interviews at these firms?
If you don’t have the recruiter contact info. for firms that don’t come to your campus, generally you’re better off trying to get through to bankers directly (this is assuming that they’re small and therefore have contact information listed on the website). Otherwise you need to get referrals from friends.
That’s all you can really do – either find it online or go through friends working there or friends who have the contact info. for other firms.
Question about accelerated interview process:
I was just talking to a BB friend and he told me that BB banks are usually strict about only interviewing at certain times. Is this true?
He then said that some banks could see you as too pushy and would get pissed and not give you an interview at all. Is this likely?
Uh that sounds pretty strange because I know dozens of people who interviewed earlier than usual after their internships were over.
There’s rarely such a thing as being “too pushy” with recruiting unless you camp out at someone’s house or something… being assertive gets you noticed because most people don’t have the guts to do anything bold.
Should there be a mention about not receiving an offer in a cover letter? Whether defensive or not?
Should anything else be added in this regard?
Thx.
I would not bring it up at all in a cover letter – just makes it seem like you’re making excuses.
Thanks for your response to my previous question. I have a couple of more:
1. When telling situational stories to support the various strengths I bring to the job, should I now rely primarily on stories from my summer IB experience at a BB? Or should I still use some stories from classes that I’ve taken or clubs that I am involved with? (I used stories from these two places during SA recruiting).
For example, when explaining why I can do the gruntwork, what roles I like to take on teams, my level of endurance, etc I am tempted to relate everything back to my BB experience since it is so relevant. But I don’t know if that would be too myopic of an approach.
I’ll appreciate your insight on this.
Could go with either, but I would probably use the summer BB experience since it’s more recent/relevant.
If you’re worried about getting asked, “So why didn’t you get an offer?” go back to how you could do the work well but didn’t fit in with the group’s culture.
Thanks for your quick response. Great job with the site.
Hi M&I,
Thanks a lot for your help and article.
I just finished an IBD internship at a BB in london now back in the US. couldnt get an offer for political reasons, did very well and everybody liked me and bankers offered to be my references.
didnt expect the bad news to be honest, since the reviews were very good and was on a live deal the entire time.
im thinking of starting calling up recruiters for interviews but do you think i should call london or nyc? is there a chance that i can interview for the london position in the US instead of flying over? do they still do phone interviews first then face to face?
thank you a lot!
It’s worth a shot, but you’d probably have to fly over at least once – sometimes for back/middle-office positions they might let you do it over the phone but usually for front office you have to meet in-person.
hmm thank you for quick reply. if i apply to the same bank in both offices…will the people in graduate recruitment in london and new york know??
Depends how well-organized they are, but yes I would assume they’ll know
What if you pull the culture/group card and they stay on your back? Asking something like: “What could you have done better over the summer to get an offer?”
Just say that you could have worked harder to get to know people in your group, and say that you were too focused on your work – so you could have done more to see the bigger picture, or something like that.
Thanks for maintaining such a great resource. I own your interview guide and am an original subscriber to the BIW site as well – I’d be happy to write you a testimonial at any time. Your interview guide, especially the questions on levered EV vs. unlevered EV (that question came up multiple times – most of my peers at a target have no clue about the difference), was a great tool.
Fortunately, I now have an offer from a BB, a middle-market firm, and a boutique. When I was interviewing, I told the MM & Boutiques that I wanted an environment where I could take on more responsibility, work on leaner deal teams, and gain more client exposure. I sold them pretty hard that I was looking primarily at smaller firms, and that I was looking at BBs to spread my eggs in a bad market. However, when I interviewed with the BBs I logically said that I wanted the big deal flow and argued that the BB experience is invaluable for my career development.
If I choose the BB over the MM/Boutique, how should I answer the question: “Who are you going to instead of us (mm/boutique) and why?” “BB?! I thought you wanted a more entrepreneurial environment with leaner deal teams?”
I don’t want to burn any bridges or sound like I was lying the entire time. As you mention in some of your posts, I was simply spinning my story to fit who I was interviewing with in order to get an offer.
I would appreciate your insight and advice.
Congrats on all the offers. If you already have the offers, your explanation doesn’t matter – no matter what you say, the other banks will be annoyed that you didn’t take the offer from them. Just say that you felt that you had a better cultural fit at the other group, and that it was small and understaffed so you felt you would get the same experience there.
Hey Brian,
I notice you have a list of M&I Content listed underneath the articles, but was wondering whether you are able to list the links and references you also refer to within your articles.
I want to (and I am sure a lot of people would too) have an exhaustive list of everything that was written so we can dive in one on one instead of flipping through the sites, and submerging ourself with links with no particular order.
Are you able to do that?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll see what I can do.
How exactly do we *ask* a recruiter for an accelerated interview? How would you approach this exactly? Just say ” Hi, I interned at X this summer and would like to explore my options..I would like to be considered for your firm’s accelerated interview process..”
?
Thanks
Yes, just say, “I worked at [Bank X] over the summer but am extremely interested in your firm. I need to respond to my exploding offer by [Date] – I am contacting you to find out how I can get an accelerated interview at your firm.” Avoid yes/no questions, assume that you will get it and just ask how the process works.
Hi,
This article is very helpful.
I did not get an offer due to political reasons but got great feedback and good references.
How should I contact other recruiters?? i can’t say that I have an exploding offer. So what should I say to get an accelerated interview?
You can’t really get accelerated interviews unless you have an exploding offer… unless you want to lie about it (not recommended). Just go through the standard recruiting process.