How to Prepare for Investment Banking Summer Internship Recruiting
While I’ve written lots of summer internship tutorials, most of them focus on what to do once you’re actually working, or how to prepare for the internship.
Even back in the dark ages (in Internet time, 2-3 years ago) one of the most asked questions here was “OK, but how do I get a summer internship in the first place?”
And since then I’ve gotten many more questions on the timing for summer internship recruiting, how it’s different from full-time recruiting, what to focus on, and what happens when – so let’s get to it.
Who?
I’m assuming that you’re an undergraduate or MBA – or that you’re graduating but are starting a Master’s program right afterward.
Summer internships are only available if you’re in school.
Yes, you could still apply if you’re graduating or you’ve already graduated but that has a very low success rate, especially at large banks.
You don’t have to be at a “target” school, but you will have to rely heavily on networking if you’re not. You are at more of a disadvantage at the MBA level if you’re not from a top school, because there are fewer spots available and the competition is much savvier.
What?
You know, investment banking summer internships. Haven’t we been through this before?
“Internship” is just another word for an 8-10 week interview at a bank: if you pass, you get a return offer at the end. And if you don’t, you don’t get a return offer and have to look elsewhere for full-time work.
You perform tasks similar to what full-time analysts and associates do, but you’re always supporting them and you’re given more grunt work since you don’t know anything.
It’s different in sales & trading because you’re not allowed to trade as an intern, so it’s more of a shadowing experience there.
Why?
Summer internships are important because having one will dramatically increase your chances of getting full-time interviews and offers.
If the economy is bad, you might not even have a shot at full-time interviews if you haven’t had an internship – and many bulge bracket banks fill their entire analyst classes with summer interns.
Even if the market is frothy, an internship still gives you a big advantage, and even more importantly, gives you more options than someone without an internship.
When Do You Get an Internship?
I’ve been writing “summer internships” throughout, but banks do occasionally offer autumn, winter, and spring options as well – more so in Europe than the US.
But the other internships are not much different aside from timing and summer internships are the most common ones, so we’ll focus on those.
Recruiting begins in December or January and concludes sometime in February. The internship itself starts in June and finishes in August, lasting anywhere between 8 to 10 weeks.
Before you reply and say that you heard of a friend who interned longer or shorter than that or someone who did not follow that exact timing, yes, there are exceptions and the sentences above just give approximate guidelines.
Some banks may finish later – especially boutique and middle-market firms – and sometimes recruiting starts in November, especially outside the US.
Prep Time?
More important than the specific dates is when you should start networking and preparing for recruiting.
A long time ago when I interviewed readers who broke into banking from non-target schools (no, that special offer is no longer active because the courses were released a long time ago), most of them reported starting 6 months in advance.
They networked through the summer and started with weekend trips in the fall before interviews began in the winter.
If you haven’t already done all that and recruiting is underway, it’s not the end of the world – although you will have to approach things differently (see the networking section below).
How to Get a Summer Internship
Summer internship recruiting is not dramatically different from full-time recruiting – you still get in via networking, having a solid resume, and then acing your interviews.
But there are some differences and special considerations:
Networking
Ideally you will have started at least a few months in advance with contacting alumni, setting up informational interviews, and figuring out your story.
This is more necessary if you’re at a non-target school than if you’re at a top school and already have a competitive profile: networking always helps, but if you have perfect grades and 2 internships at Goldman Sachs you will get (at least some) interviews anyway.
If you have time to start in advance, you know the drill: start with informational interviews over the summer, continue with weekend trips in the fall leading up to recruiting season and make your “ask” just before interviews begin.
If you have not started in advance and this is a last-minute effort, here are some tactics to try:
- Go to all the information sessions you can – these are held right before the application deadline, so you still have a shot even at the last-minute.
- If you’re at a non-target school, go to another school’s information sessions and sneak in if you can get away with it. Don’t kidnap someone and steal his/her student ID, but see if you can “borrow” a friend’s or otherwise talk your way in if security is tight. Some bankers frown on this, but others will be impressed that you were hungry enough to get in.
- Look up alumni on LinkedIn or in your alumni database and still set up informational interviews – but be more direct and ask how you can position yourself for a formal interview at the end of each conversation.
- Cold-call aggressively – this works better at boutiques and you should do it only if you have no other options and/or you made it through recruiting season without any offers.
It’s not ideal to start networking at the last-minute, but it is slightly less of a deal-breaker than if you went into full-time recruiting with minimal networking.
And if you already started months in advance, you’re well ahead of the game because most aspiring bankers don’t read this site and are still going to information sessions asking what it’s like being an investment banker.
Resumes / CVs
First, download and use this university student resume template if you’re an undergraduate or this MBA-level template if you’re at the business school level.
Using one of those templates helps you avoid the most common mistakes like poor formatting, impossible-to-scan text, the temptation to be “creative” and make a video resume (please don’t or it will be forwarded widely and your life will be ruined), and so on.
But much of your resume is beyond your immediate control: bankers place a heavy emphasis on your school name, where you’ve worked, and your grades – and you can’t change those at the last-minute.
But you can control how you present your experience and what you focus on:
- At the MBA level write about the 2 or 3 full-time positions you had before going to business school, focusing on whatever was closest to finance; just 1 full-time position is OK if that’s all you have, but you may want to include an undergraduate internship or an activity you’ve been involved in for the sake of variety.
- If you have limited work experience as an undergrad, pick the 2-3 activities, sports, or competitions you’ve been most heavily involved in (see this tutorial and resume makeover for more). Hopefully you’ve held a leadership role in these.
For example, you could write about a student investment fund that you’ve led, a nonprofit you’ve been volunteering with, and a case or investment competition you won.
They don’t have to be finance-related, but it certainly helps when it comes time to tell your story and prove your interest in the field.
If you’ve had a rotational internship or you’ve had actual finance experience, then devote at least half your resume to that and don’t write as much about unrelated activities.
The specific format for each entry is the same as what’s in the tutorials above – pick a project-centric or task-centric structure depending on the experience and be as specific and results-oriented as possible.
As usual, cover letters are mostly useless but there is a cover letter template right here if you need it – there are no differences for internships.
Interviews
For full-time interviews bankers focus more on your most recent internship, but for internship interviews you haven’t had as much experience – so they will ask more about your background before university or business school and the activities you’ve been involved in.
You still need a solid story and then 2-3 mini-stories (see The Banker Blueprint for an explanation) that you can use to answer the usual questions about leadership, teamwork, strengths and weaknesses, and so on.
The only difference is that you may rely more on your activities as an undergrad, or on your pre-MBA experience at the business school level.
Going back to the example above, the interviewee might talk about where he’s from (the “beginning”), then use the case competition as his finance “spark,” and then talk about how he started the student investment fund for his growing interest (see the story tutorial for definitions of all these and the overall outline).
The key challenge will be to convince bankers that you want to be in the field without sounding TOO certain and coming across as unrealistic – it is just an internship, after all.
So rather than saying you want to be a banker for life, say that it’s what you’re most excited about doing and what you want to do full-time after graduation. You know it depends on how you perform in the internship, but that is what you’re most looking forward to right now based on your past experience, networking, and everything you’ve learned on your own.
Technical Questions
The “bar” for technical questions is definitely higher than it was in, say, the 2000-2005 period.
Back then, you might have gotten in with little technical knowledge, but these days you pretty much have to know accounting, valuation, and how to answer basic questions such as how changes to line items affect the 3 statements.
And often you’ll get asked a lot more than that – it is not unheard of to get questions on merger models, LBO models, and so on even if you haven’t had banking experience and are going for summer internships.
Generally you will not get as difficult questions if you don’t have a finance background and haven’t had previous internships, but there are no guarantees.
You may get overwhelmed if you try to cram in everything at the last-minute, so this is another area where you want to start prepping at least a few weeks to a month in advance.
Undergraduate vs. MBA Differences
There aren’t many: networking and interviews are similar, and your resume may look different but the basic idea is the same.
The key difference is that bankers expect more polish if you’re at the MBA-level: they know that you’re good at BSing and talking your way into situations if you’ve made it that far, so they will ask more probing questions.
An undergraduate might get away with a generic answer for the “Why investment banking?” question, but you will not: they will ask more detailed questions to see whether you’re being relatively truthful or you’re just good at making stuff up on the spot.
Everyone else will also be networking, since that’s arguably the true purpose of business school – so you need to get started before you even arrive on campus.
Technical questions in interviews may also take the form of case studies – whether written or informal discussions – more often at this level.
Instead of asking how to value a company or the trade-offs of the different methodologies, bankers may ask about a specific company and walk through an imaginary scenario where someone else wants to acquire them, and then frame all the valuation questions in that context.
So be prepared and read up on case studies – the private equity case study tutorial is also applicable here.
Internationally
The main differences:
- In addition to CVs and cover letters, you may also have to submit written answers to competency questions (more common in Europe).
- The interview process will also consist of an assessment center and case studies that you complete there (mostly Europe and Australia).
- In emerging markets, the recruiting process will be more unstructured and haphazard.
For #2, see the existing guide to case studies and assessment centers.
For #1, just pretend you’re answering interview questions but condense what you say into 200 or 300 words, or whatever the word limit is.
Just like with cover letters, if you say something stupid it could come back to haunt you – but amazing answers won’t help you that much.
Answer each question with a definitive statement (e.g. “My top 3 qualities are my work ethic, leadership, and ability to work in a team.”) and then give a specific example or two to back up what you say.
Banks claim to pay attention to these questions, but overall they are less important than your CV and interview skills so don’t lose sleep over them.
Offers
Good news travels quickly: if you get an offer, you’ll probably hear back right away. If you don’t get an offer or you’re on the wait list, you won’t.
And yes, before you start panicking, there are exceptions and banks don’t always do this.
If you get an exploding offer, you pretty much have to accept it unless you have another offer lined up.
For internships it is much better to take something – even if it’s at a boutique or middle-market bank – than to turn it down and take a chance on getting an offer at a much larger bank.
Even with a lesser-known bank on your resume, you’ll still get interviews at bulge bracket banks for full-time recruiting – so the risk of not accepting an offer outweighs the potential upside of waiting and taking a chance on a better offer.
You could renege on your summer offer but that has its own set of risks.
And for summer internships it is arguably more risky than with full-time recruiting, because you may have to interview once again after your internship – if someone remembers that you reneged on an offer, that’s bad news for you.
Plan B Options
What if you go through recruiting and end up with no summer internship offers?
Just take a look at the Plan B options here and here and cut out the ones that don’t make sense (e.g. business school or a Master’s program).
Get as close to banking as possible – outside of PE/HF/VC the best options are probably corporate finance/development and wealth/asset management.
The back office is not necessarily the kiss of death as it is for full-time work, but it is a step below client-facing / revenue-generating options.
If nothing on that list works for you, start your own project, your own student club or investment fund, or something similar.
Whatever you do, don’t just sit around or only take classes or study for exams and certifications because you’ll put yourself at an even bigger disadvantage.
And don’t even think about the Best Buy option.
Any questions?
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hi m&i,
i know you loathe gpa questions, but this one is different (like they always are!). i would really appreciate it if you can give your two cents.
my “cumulative” gpa as stated on my transcript is 3.23 (according to the faqs on this site, i can round it to 3.3).
but the real deal is that i am pursuing a double degree (economics+math) program – so when i graduate, i get two degrees with two different GPAs and two different class of honors – one for economics and one for math.
so the cumulative gpa listed on my transcript is simply nominal and is not truly reflective of my honors classification. i have clarified this with my university folk clearly on numerous occasions.
using the university template for gpa calculations, i have determined that my predictive GPA for econ is 3.53 and math is 3.57 (since there are a whole lot of common courses required by both degrees, i get some leeway)
so when i submit my CV to the BBs for internships, what do you suggest i do –
1. plug in 3.3 and take the bullet
2. state my economics & math gpa separately as 3.53 and 3.57 respectively
3. simply put academic gpa as 3.55 and explain the rest during the interview/due diligence stage
i know how trivial and trite it sounds, but i have been literally breaking my head about this.
thanks a lot. really appreciate your time
anderson
You can put major GPA: 3.55 (hope this shows on your transcript). Overall 3.23 (you may be able to leave this out if 3.5 is shown on your transcript)
Hi Nicole,
thanks for your reply. i think i will go with your “major” option. it seems safer.
another quick follow up question – in general, how considerate are the HR folk when it comes to such GPA issues. is it common for offers to be rescinded, if say the applicant fudges the GPA by around 0.3 units.
anderson
Haha I have not personally heard of the above though I would suggest you to be truthful (that doesn’t mean you can’t report major GPA instead of overall) when you report your scores. If HR suspects that you are lying or covering something up, they can rescind your offer.
Hey James,
I am in a similar boat so I’m wondering if you did end up rounding your 3.23 to 3.3 and what happened?
Thanks a lot!
Hi Brian,
I love your articles and am so grateful to have found your website. I have a question about what you think I should do this summer – I am a sophomore at UNC Chapel Hill(which I guess is a semi-target school?) and I am trying to decide between trying to get an internship and studying abroad. Right now I have a 3.2 overall GPA (I can pull it up to a 3.5 (rounded) by June both overall and in my major). I am a Economics major and just applied to the kenan-flagler business school so I’m planning on majoring in Business with a finance emphasis also. I am not in school this semester, however I am doing an internship at a local boutique real estate investment bank – but it’s more like job shadowing really where the MD takes me to events and lets me sit in on meetings while he works deals. My responsibilities are basically to help him come up with a “training program” for future interns (I’m like his guinea pig, although he’s had interns before me), update the FB company page with relevant research and articles I find, and stuff like that – he’s really nice and wants to help me and keeps asking what I would like to learn from him, and I basically just tell him any experience I get will be useful since I have none – IDK if that’s the best answer, but what would you suggest I should try to get him to do to help me gain more exposure into this industry?
Anyways, I am having a hard time between deciding whether to do an internship at a bigger bracket bank or study abroad (like in Hong Kong or London like in LSE – if I get accepted that is) where I could take classes that might boost my GPA a bit more and then maybe do an internship after Junior year at a larger investment bank? Or try for an internship now and maybe study abroad during my Fall semester of junior year instead? (except i probably won’t be able to study at a prestigious school like LSE, which I thought might be cool and good to list on my resume). I guess I could apply to both internships and study abroad and decide later but each study abroad application costs $50 so I’m trying to be smart about it and figure it out now. Also, I have not started networking or talking to recruiter yet although I plan on getting started ASAP. Goldman Sachs and Moragan Stanley and bunch of other Wall Street/prestigious banks are having info sessions at my school in Novemeber and I plan on sneaking into some of Duke University’s Info sessions where they host JP Morgan and BNP Paribas and a bunch of others… since I kind of live near by. So I guess my other question is, what kind of things would I discuss with the recruiters and alumni who will be at these events? Like you’ve mentioned, I don’t want to ask them what it’s like being an investment banker – like how would I start a convo or approach them and also how can I ensure that I get their contact information without being awkward so that I can maintain a connection with the people I meet at these info sessions? Oh and lastly, when I’m attending another school’s event (like at Duke) should I avoid mentioning I’m a UNC student? like just say im a sophomore and leave it at that? lol
sorry for this long comment – i guess my basic questions are:
1.) Should I study abroad over the summer before junior year or intern at a bigger bank (instead of the local boutique one im doing right now) and study abroad during fall semester of Junior year? (I really want to study abroad at some point, and reading articles on this website just made me want to get this type of experience even more)
2.) How can I work with the MD at the boutique I’m interning at now and make the most out of my experience so I can gain the most exposure and beef up my resume?
3.) What is the best way to approach recruiters and alumni at info. sessions? Like how should I introduce myself and what are some questions I should be asking them without making it awkward?
Thanks!!
1. If you get a good internship w a renowned bank I’d do the internship. If not, I’d go abroad. I would also stay put during fall semester of junior year because banks recruit on campus that time and I wouldn’t want to miss out.
2. Make sure you fulfill your responsibilities, get along w the rest of the people in your team, etc. Make sure he likes you as a colleague and perhaps he can be your mentor
3. http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-information-sessions/
Hi, thanks for your comments though you have a lot of questions. Can you please narrow down your questions to a few? Your comment is a bit too long.
If you want a 1×1, personalized detailed coaching session, please visit http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-coaching/
Hi,
I’m a current sophomore majoring in Biology. I’m premed, but I’ve started to seriously look into banking lately.
Qustion: I can go for a Health Policy minor or a Finance minor. Would you recommend me to go straight science/pre-med with the health policy minor so that I stand out from the crowd or is it better for me to go with a Finance minor?
I’m trying to apply to larger, well-known banks in NYC.
I’m at a target university (top 5) in the US, and I have a relatively high GPA, above 3.6 (no economics background though).
Finance minor
hi m&i,
i am currently in the midst of submitting my internship applications for the hong kong/singapore office.
the biggest question that is daunting me is how many bulge brackets should i apply to.
say one of the following scenarios transpires –
Scenario 1: if i turn down a bank`s offer during the summer internship recruiting, will i be automatically black-balled during the full time recruitment process
Scenario 2: if i get rejected for the summer internship and reapply for the full time position, will i be at a disadvantage?
in other words, what is the optimal number of BBs to apply to (without screwing up your chances for full time recruitin)
thanks!
stephen
Not necessarily.
Depends. You might have improved a lot as a candidate. The HR person might have left the firm. You might be apply for a different group….so many different factors at play here
As many as you want; just remember to focus and be effective
Hi,
I am a sophomore in a target school and have 3.95 GPA, majoring in physics. I have been attending info sessions lately but I was not quite ready that I was insufficient to impress anyone. Does this degrade my chance of being recruited for summer internship? Another question is that, since I do not have any background in finance or economics (my past experiences are research in labs), how should I work out with my resume? I want to emphasize analytical aspect of research, but this seems weak to impress bankers.
No – too many people in info sessions for bankers to remember you unless you make a really bad/good impression on them
Not directly related but this article should address your second question. http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/getting-a-finance-job-from-engineering/
Re resume highlight your leadership/analytical experience from your past experience in labs
Hello, I’ve just chanced on this website and it’s brilliant-thank you very much for it!
However the dilemma is that I have already graduated and I’ve just completed my SECOND Masters in Theoretical Physics-I would say all my education has been at target UK schools. Anyway, I’m taking a year out before I start my PhD next fall and would like to apply for internships during the summer just before I start my studies. So would you say I’m no longer in school and not what summer recruiters are looking for?
Yours is a tricky situation. I’d suggest you to speak to HR at banks and see what they say.
Hey Brian,
I am a UK penultimate year undergraduate student from a good university (within top 5 in UK) and I have applied to several banks and several of their offices. I was wondering, if, let’s say, I’ve applied to London, NY and HK and I get an interview with the London office of a particular firm; does it mean that my applications to the firm’s other offices automatically become void? Or could I be invited for interviews for those offices as well?
Conversely, if I get rejected from one office (whilst my applications for their other offices still say “Application Received” as their status) do they also become automatically void (i.e. is rejection by 1 office = rejection by all)?
Also, do you think I have a chance at landing a job at NY? My CV is good, I have previous internships in IBD (including a BB), as well as in other businesses and I also have a lot of leadership experience. I just fear that because I don’t study in the US (my uni is not *that* well known in the US) I may be at a disadvantage from NY office target schools, e.g. Harvard. I’m a US citizen btw so visa is not an issue.
Thanks again for your great website. Looking forward to your response.
This is for summer internships by the way.
Not necessarily; depends on the firm’s policy so you will have to check
Nope, I believe rejection by 1 does not mean rejection by all, at least in my limited experience
Chances at NY – pretty good if you have had experience w BB. Not studying in the US shouldn’t be an issue as long as you land interviews.
Hi! I noticed that on the application pages for firms like Goldman they limit how many applications you can make. It seems that Hong Kong recruiting is occurring right now and New York in a couple of months. Would it be strictly forbidden or bad to use all three “chances” now for Hong Kong and then come January create a new account with different address and telephone, email? I know this is kinda unethical but will the banks notice? Thanks!
They may or may not notice. You could apply to HK now and make a separate account for NY but there is a chance you’ll get caught so I wouldn’t recommend it.
I’d appreciate some suggestions on sending cold emails for investment management internships.
Check this out http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/networking-investment-banking-jobs/
The email format should be similar
Dear M&I,
As you probably know most banks outsource their recruiting, at least for the initial stages, to filter out applicants from the thousands of applications.
I was wondering, since there are only few recruiting firms banks use(shl, wcn, tal.net, kprime etc.) and since each of these firms handles recruitment for more than one bank, would these firms compare my applications to different banks for consistency?
For instance, Rothschild and BAML use wcn and I have applied to both. So will wcn compare my two applications? Do you think they have a file for each applicant which includes all his/her applications to different places?
This might be a problem for me because my cover letter is the same for each application; I just edited the name of the Bank/group I applied to!
Also you have the issue of honesty in competency questions, e.g. “What makes our bank different” when the average applicant (given the current economic situation) just wants an(y) internship. If the answer is the same for each bank (e.g. meritocracy, well-structured training, reputation etc.) can you get caught?
I wouldn’t say you’d get caught but I’d suggest you to find out a few pieces of info that are unique to each bank and tie those into your answer!
Good question. Other readers might have better answers to your question. As long as you tweak the cover letters a bit differently from one another, I think you should be fine! I presume you’re not the only one!
Dear M&I,
What if during a final round interview with a BB (except GS) you are asked “Would you still intern with us if we make you an offer, which you accept, but later on you receive an offer from Goldman Sachs?”
Say, wow this is a great hypothetical situation. Tough call. Since I’ve interned with you guys and I like my group and what I see in your firm/team so far, I would take the FT offer at your firm
I will be interning over winter break at a MM boutique, and I start next week. My goal is to land a SA position at a larger firm, but recruiting is already beginning and some of my contacts have asked for my resume. I want them to see my winter experience, but how can I put this on my resume since I haven’t started yet?
Brian,
I recently graduated from non-target school and am currently working as an intern at investment. Is it possible to get into middle market summer analyst program with help of network? or would i have better chance if I applied for full-time?
Not sure if you would qualify for summer analyst programs because you have graduated already! I’d suggest you to check with HR though I think you might have a better chance if you applied for a full-time role
Hi Nicole,
Have you seen any case where a recent graduate getting hired as a summer analyst?
Hi,
I have taken a gap year (January 2012 – October 2012) and changed degree (to Maths/Stats/Finance) so now graduate in July 2013 – making me a penultimate year student. Im at a top university and predicted top grades. I have a wealth of ECs including societies, sports, etc and 3 investment banking internships (boutiques, not popular names, one was rotational, one was M&A, one was an industry group but mostly M&A).
Unfortunately, I have not secured any investment banking internships but have some summer applications left. My plan was to complete an off-cycle internship and then a summer internship so that I would get a lot of experience and hopefully graduate offers.
I seem to be getting through to the first round in a lot of BBs… But I keep failing them. I think they go well – but when I get feedback – its always over the smallest technicality (rather then a major flaw like looking nervous, not knowing the answer to a question, not appearing commercially aware etc). My friends have had major flaws – like going blank when asked about a deal – and they still get through. Examples of what banks have said to me is: ‘you didn’t reply in enough detail so we were not convinced you knew the answer’ to a simple question eg ‘name the valuation methods’ – I named and briefly described them – and the HR lady who also interviewed me (in the same room) thought i answered well! I have passed a couple of telephone interviews and got through to the AC – so it means that I can’t be completely rubbish! But then I ‘mess up’ on one small thing again – which i don’t even notice – and get rejected again.
I’ve networked so much this year – used every single contact possible – but you still need to go through the recruitment process. Getting an interview seems fine – even with firms I have no contacts in – its passing the interviews that is so difficult. (A top BB actually said I had one of the strongest applications on paper – yet I was rejected after round 1 – interviews I was so sure I had done well in….)
So I’m not sure what to do…. I am not sure why I’m not getting through because the feedback is very useless and they never give something solid that i can improve on (no matter how much i haggle). But it’s the third round of applications to the BBs (spring weeks, summer internships last year, summer now) so I’m not sure if it’s time to quit and move on? I give 200% to each interview/AC/application but it’s impossible to notice every small flaw – especially the ones they come out with! Haha
One other thing – so many bankers stalk my LinkedIn profile – view it like 5 times a week – haha – yet when I send a request to network with them – with a nice intro email – I am completely ignored. So there is interest – but then there isn’t….
All these mixed reviews and confusing and frustrating me so much. I hope someone can advise me! Not sure how to explain this massive gap if I don’t get anything in the end…. This is my main concern.
Btw I did read the article on your website about no offers. The trouble is that I have IBD experience so if I now go and climb mountains, work in a random place/another division it will not look very logical….
Also – I cannot defer my year again. This was my first round of interviews – EVER – with investment banks but my uni won’t let me defer again. They were so reluctant in the first place!
Going back to the other banks is not an options either – they told me they have reached capacity or currently recruited new analysts so basically don’t need me.
I do not have family etc who work in anything even related to finance and I have no money for a masters either – come from an extremely poor background where I market adverts online and raise a bit of cash for my travel expenses. No joke….
Good luck with your interviews!
I don’t know how you pitch your story/speak so I can’t say why you didn’t land the job. There are numerous factors at play in interviews and it is hard to go through them on the comments page. You might want to check out our coaching page if you want more details. Regarding Linkedin, it is normal for people to “stalk” you but not respond – sometimes people are just curious as to who you are and sometimes they forget to check their messages etc. I wouldn’t take it personally
Brian,
I’m a sophomore at a semi-target and I had been heavily recruiting with two BBs in NYC. One of them invited me to their superday, and I ended up not getting an offer..so I was really really counting on the second one. The second one had invited me to a few events in town (an info session at my school and then a dinner they had afterwards). I had kept in contact with two analysts there and was told numerous times that the firm was interested in me. Long story short, after a bunch of small talk and coffee meetings and such, someone from NYC emailed me wanting to speak on the phone. We had a great conversation and she emphasized that I was really high on their radar, and that they would love to have me at their superday..but HR wasn’t letting them fly out any sophomores from my school this year. They were only recruiting at Ivys, and they have had to really cut down on recruiting in general…so she told me they wanted to keep in contact with me and basically said they wanted me up there, but NEXT YEAR.
I’m wondering, should I accept what she said and just move on? Or should I email the MDs I met and still try to network. If it’s a firmwide policy to only recruit at certain schools this year..can that be bypassed if a number of associates/MDs vouch for me? I think I have a really solid shot if I get invited to superday, but now I have no idea how to go about getting invited…
& if it really is an economic issue/new policy, I don’t want to burn any bridges by annoying MDs when they can’t do anything to help me. Any ideas?
Just email MDs and network. Keep emails short and brief. They shouldn’t be annoyed.
Hello, I am an engineering junior at NUS, Singapore. I have worked in Credit Suisse BO for my Year 2 summer and then took a semester off school to work as an investments analyst at a boutique private equity firm which is a Deutsche Bank JV. I have been to a couple of IBD Summer Internship interviews at bulge brackets but could not secure an offer. Currently I have Goldman Sachs Ops only. I really want to do an IB internship this summer but with nothing on the plate right now, I am not sure whether I should reject this. Please advise.
If that’s all you have right now I would take it. Much better to have an Ops internship than nothing at all.
Hello,
I’m a first-year finance student at a (regional) target school in Europe. Since my grades are rather average I merely managed to get invited to the spring week of the technology group of a bulge bracket bank (thanks to a previous internship in software engineering with a non-finance company).
1. Are there any possibilities I can leverage that spring week to move to the front office (M&A) even if I barely get to meet real bankers? How will it look on my resume if I just ‘exploit’ that program to get a step closer to investment banking?
2. Presumably I will get an offer for a summer internship after year one within the technology group. Should I accept that offer or preferably look for a more finance-related internship for example with a big4 audit firm? Does the same apply if the technology internship will be abroad?
Thank you very much for your support!
1. It will still be useful – better than having nothing on your resume. How useful it is depends on you
2. I’d go for the tech group in IBD.
Dear M & I,
I want to apologize in advance for another GPA question, but this question is quite unique I feel. An answer would help me so, so much, and I thank you in advance for your help.
The semester prior to the start of recruiting, which was basically December of last year, I had a cumulative GPA of 3.34. However, this semester, all the way up to the deadlines of various investment banking summer analyst positions, I was doing very well in all my classes and knew I would continue to do well in them. If I were to get all A’s, which is almost a certainty at this point, my cumulative GPA would be a 3.43, which according to a previous article on M & I, would allow me to round up to 3.5. As a result, I just put 3.5 on my resume as my cumulative GPA. I know this isn’t the ideal thing to do, but I needed to make the 3.5 cutoff for most banking internships. At this point, I have accepted an offer at an investment bank. My question is, during the due diligence phase, will HR simply check to see that my cumulative GPA is a 3.5 currently, or will they check to see when I actually got the 3.5? Also, would they rescind my offer because of something like this? Falsifying information was obviously not my intention at all. I would certainly not have rounded up to a 3.5 if I knew I did not have a chance to actually achieve it. Thank you for your help.
Yes they will check your transcript though your GPA is close enough…
If they are really strict they may question your credibility
If you believe you can achieve 3.5 by the end of this semester, take the risk…
Thank you Nicole. So if I do achieve a 3.5 after the semester, I should be fine, correct? Thanks for your help.
I believe so, if you want to take the risk. There’s still a risk!
I see. But you said my current GPA is “close enough.” Does this mean that I should be fine regardless? Also, would a bank rescind an offer because of something like this? Thanks for your help. I apologize if I am asking too many questions about this. As you can probably tell, this issue is stressing me out! Thanks again.
I can understand. However, I don’t think anyone can guarantee that you will be fine regardless. As I’ve said if you want to take the risk do so, but be ready for the consequences (I don’t know if they will be as severe as a bank rescinding their offer).
I wouldn’t worry about it. Haha worry about when you get the job.
Hello, my name is Alex, and I’ve been a regular reader of your articles. It was when I found this website, among other things, that I seriously thought of entering IB. Anyway, you articles are great, and I have this website already on my speed dial.
I just wanted to ask you, or suggest, if you could say something about off-cycle internships. I didn’t find anything about that. I guess it may be that there is not much difference between summer and off-cycle, or you haven’t thought of it.
I’m a second year student, majoring in Finance, and I am planning on applying for an off-cycle internship, approx. from September to December (at least 10 weeks in that period). I’ll be busy during the summer, finishing a very important project home, so I that’s why I decided to try with this period. It will be during my studies, but I think I would be able to manage to arrange my study plan and exams.
Also, since I study in Milan, I was thinking of applying to a Milan office of some IB. I guess (or hope :)) the competition is probably less than in London.
Do you have any advice?
Thank you in advance, and, keep up the good work!
All the best,
Alex
There isn’t a huge difference – off-cycle internships are more common in Europe, elsewhere they are not as standardized. Milan is fine overall, see this article for some recruiting tips: http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-recruiting-europe/
hi brian,
here is my conundrum –
Objective – secure a full-time position in front-office (i.e. trading, structuring etc.)
Internship Offers in hand
1. IT (back office) in a bulge bracket
2. Quant role in 2nd tier investment bank
Given my desired full-time position, the second offer would be the obvious choice. but this specific bank is notorious for its low conversion rate (i.e. it is virtually impossible to get a return offer).
so i need to build on this experience and try my luck during the full-time cycle. but then again, it might be impossible to crack into the BBs as they would have already filled their analyst positions with their interns. so, i need to focus on the MM banks and in these uncertain times, this seems to be quite risky.
so, i am wondering if i should just settle for the safe and secure BO internship in IT (with an excellent conversion rate) and give up my hopes for a FO position.
thanks in advance for your help.
blake
I’d take the risk and choose 2. However, if you just want a job in IT after graduation and are pretty sure you’ll get the FT offer, choose 1 then, but realize that it will be harder to move back to FO. If you choose 1, you can always network a lot internally within the same firm & get a FO role in the future
Hey guys,quick q here.
Based in England, just recieved an offer to study an undergraduate course at one of the “Big 6″ target unis.
A level exams finishes mid June,Uni course stars October. Now, I have a contact(close family friend) who works for a easily top 10 Global BB,not just my viewpoint, everyone elses.
My question is, even before attending uni, should I get some sort of 8-10 week experience/internship there, or should I wait until I enter the target uni, and then take up a 2nd year internsip?
If you can get an 8-10 wk experience before attending univ, I’d go for it. It will give you a head start. If you can’t, take up a 2nd year internship. Either way, you’re earlier than most peeps so don’t worry
Ah okay.Its just that I was wondering, say for example, I have an interview or such during my internship applications for a “rival” BB, so to speak, and they see I worked for a “rival” BB, would I be at a disadvantage due to that, or would they appreciate the fact that I have taken the initiative to look for experience at a felow BB, and may have gained some soft or technical skills along the way?
I don’t think that you would be at a disadvantage due to that. I believe they would appreciate that you have taken the initiative to look for experience at a fellow BB.
Hi Brian,
I find this to be a silly question, but does it matter what kind of watch I wear to the interview?
A friend (and also a fan of your site) freaked out when he saw me wearing the watch I recently bought (for a really good price at an auction and with my hard earned money) and I was on my way to an IB internship interview.
It’s a gold, near mint 1985 Rolex day-date president (no diamonds, very professional), in case you were wondering.
He says they will immediately think negatively of me and assume that I am a well-endowed, spoiled brat.
Please advise.
Thanks
P.S. The reason I bought the watch is because I’m a huge watch fan and I simply like them. I guess I get this from my father and grandfather, who both have quite a collection. I could’ve borrowed one from either one of them, but I believe in working for what I want instead of having it handed over to me on a silver platter.
I think you are worrying too much. Interviewers will judge you based on your whole presentation and CONTENT. Some may think you are too much by having a Rolex, some may think you are presentable. Bottom line is, you can’t control what interviewers think. I’d also focus more on spinning your story and content as opposed to a watch. I’d still wear it to the interview, proudly. Interviewers can also pick up on your “vibe”. If you are self conscious because of your watch you’ll attract criticism. If you aren’t, you won’t attract it! Even if you do, if you have a cool attitude, no one cares!
I’m currently trying to break into investment banking through any kind of internships that I can get. I’m not in a top school and am going for business management, but have no idea of where to start my search for internships. I’ve been to all local banks and set up informational interviews, but with little success. also in linkedin. can anyone help!!!
Know why you really want IB. Know how you can add value. Perfect your pitch.
Hi,
I am a senior majoring in finance in at a non-target university. I’ve actually been in college since 2007, i.e. more than five years, because for the longest time I didn’t know what to do with my life until I was a junior.
I can finish my degree within one year, but a former boutique investment banker told me that I might want to consider pushing back my graduation till spring 2014. That way, I can get a shot at summer internships in 2013 and graduate in the spring when IB’s are hiring.
Since I think this is a good plan, I’m planning on double majoring in accounting or international business while trying to get as much business experience as possible for that internship. However, I was looking up on many of the bulge-bracket banks, and their internship programs are pretty much all geared towards juniors. I’m not sure if I can still apply. If it means anything, I currently have a 3.96 GPA and have some leadership experience.
My questions are threefold:
1) Is that a solid plan, or should I just take my chances for a full-time position as soon as possible?
2) Will the length of my time in college (~7 years by the time I graduate) affect my ability to get an internship or full-time position?
3) Assuming I stay till 2014, is accounting or international business a better choice as a double major? I am more inclined towards accounting, but I’ve heard it’s easier to break into the industry through Asia.
1. Having a summer internship on your resume will help you in landing FT offers
2. It is highly likely that you’ll have to explain why it took you 7 years to graduate
3. Accounting I believe because you learn solid skills there. You can also choose to pursue the Accounting route if Finance doesn’t suit you. No, it is not easier to break into the industry through Asia (myth; may have applied before crisis), and majoring in IB does not mean that it is easier for you to work abroad.
To follow up or not to follow up after sending a resume? If so, in what way (phone, email)?Particularly with the boutique firms.
Yes. I’d follow up with an email and a phone call.
Hi Brian.
I am a Korean student from NYU.I would like to ask you for some advice.
I will be joining NYU this fall as a Junior (econ major, not Stern). I have a 2.9 GPA. MY GPA is low because I screwed it all up on my Sophomore year- Family/personal problems which cannot be used as an excuse for low GPA.
. All I can tell you is that I went through depression / social phobia at the end of my sophomore year. I did my military service after this and now I am fine.
previously I have had one internship at a Korean investment bank and currently working as an intern for a PE firm in Korea. Our PE firm is ranked 3rd in korea when it comes to AUM (just behind Macquarie PE and some other firm).
It is a prestigious PE firm in my country but internationally, it is a no name firm.
I have strong network within my country that can get me jobs here, but I barely know anyone in the U.S (finance background)
I’ll be working hard,retaking low grade courses to bring my GPA up. Realistically speaking, 3.3~3.4 GPA.
Also I’ve started networking today(alums, koreans). I actually enjoy networking and rely a lot on it whenever I do something or whenever I need information/help. So I think I have decent networking skills.
I realize my current situation is sub-par and that the odds are against me. But I want to try my best before I fail.
I’d like to ask you : Given my current situation, what would be the best thing to do for me to get an IB job in NY or London? (preferably BB but boutique is just fine).
I guess my top priority right now is to secure a brand name SA internship in U.S. How should I proceed?
I thank you for your help in advance.
Brian, can you change my name on these comments? seems like I’ve revealed too much information on the internet with my name
Yep.
Your GPA might not be able to meet most resume cutoffs (3.5). I’d spend a lot of time during your junior fall networking with bankers and traders and obtaining their contacts. Learn as much as you possibly can and know the industry inside out through conversations with them. Given your low GPA, what will set you apart are your network, pitch, story, passion for and knowledge of the industry. Try your best to boost your GPA next semester by taking “easier” classes and avoiding “harder” classes (unless they are very useful). It can be challenging for you to land a job in NY or London since you’d need a visa sponsorship (unless you’re US citizen) so you might want to apply for roles in bulge brackets/big banks that sponsor international students
Hi,
Im just heading out to college this fall (NYU Stern), and I noticed the emphasis placed on the “story” on how one became interested in investment banking. This includes past experiences and internships. However, I have no previous internship at all.
The only thing I have is that i will be majoring in finance. But again, freshman dont study anything in finance for the first year.
So how can a freshman like me aim to get an internship without any previous experience?
Join an investment club at Stern, network a lot and learn as much as you can about the industry
as a freshman, would i be expected to know a lot about valuation and trading? And will trading currencies/commodities using simulators be any sort of advantage?
Hi Brian,
I’m a non-target senior who has great marks and work experience, and networked very hard to break into investment banking. Unfortunately, although I’ve had my resume passed onto HR by Associates and VPs of bulge bracket firms, I don’t have any interview for full-time because of the lack of spots…
One bulge bracket analyst suggested I obtain a summer analyst position as a senior in college, do my summer stint, obtain an offer, and then start in January. Is this fully possible without doing an extra semester / doing a MS Finance?
I’ve built my network that I have some sort of connection at nearly every reputable bulge bracket / middle market, but the lack of full-time spots really hurt me… Could I do what I mentioned above and start in January (assuming I get an offer? I’d probably travel, volunteer in Africa, and obtain some valuation / banking experience before starting in January)
Thank you
Jon
Sure that works you can try that. I think it depends on how you structure your schedule
If you are lacking an internship entering senior year, is it better to extend graduation as an undergraduate and try to get an internship during the summer of your senior year or pursue an ms in finance? Also is there a disadvantage to graduating in the Fall after finishing a summer internship at the end of your senior year.
I’m not sure if extending graduation is definitely going to land you an internship, unless you do something within that one year that will significantly boost your chances. Not necessarily – depends on the case
Hi there,
I am going through some interview questions and one of those i see online are: ‘What makes Barclays Investment Bank different from the rest?’
I could not make a conclusive answer, thoughts?
TQ
You’ll have to do some research on Barclays to answer the question. I’d suggest you to speak with contacts who work there – they might be able to give you insights on the different strategy/growth plan that Barclays is adopting vs other banks
Hi M&I,
I’m looking to boost my CV in order to secure an invesment internship next summer, as I have a technically blank CV aside from my ace results (unless playing for soccer team and joining careers club actually amounts to something). I’m studying at a non-target UK uni and desperately need inputs on making my CV stellar by autumn. I’m looking to start an investment club in the uni and something else that will boost my credentials. Could you help me out here?
Kind Regards
Please see: http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-resume-no-work-experience/
Hello M&I,
I had a quick question regarding how many summer analysts are hired every year at a BB and especially how many from ivy league schools?
Thanks!
Maybe around 1,000 total in the US? Could be less actually, depending on which groups and banks you count or exclude. % from Ivy Leagues and equivalent schools: maybe 80%+? I don’t think anyone has real stats on that.
Hello all, thanks for all of your advice! So I had an informational phone conference with a group of senior bankers. We did the walk me through your resume, why I banking, what I know about the firm and why I would be a good fit for the position. During the conference, they happened to ask how my internship search has gone so far for this summer. Why would they ask this? To see if you have other opportunities lined up? To see if your good at networking yourself? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Most interviewers are curious to see if you’re talking to other firms to gauge your (1) interest and determination to get in the industry (2) your desirability among other firms – if other firms like you too, they may be even more interested in your profile
Hello all,
Thank you so much for all of the advice! I’m learning so much. I recently had an informational phone conference with some senior bankers in regards to a summer internship there. We walked through the resume, got some more background on myself, asked what I know about the firm, the why I banking, and why I’d be a good choice for the opportunity. Towards the end, they asked me how my internship search has been going so far. Why would they ask this? To see if you have othe options incase of blowing them off? To see if your good at networking? Any general advice would be great!
Please refer to my previous comment
hello!
I’m on leave of absence for spring and fall semester, so I’m missing out on a lot of campus networking and OCR. Because I’ve switched my major, I only have a beginner’s knowledge on accounting, and I’m just getting to know many finance/banking terms through this website. I do not live near major financial centers so I am going to try to contact boutique banks around to see if I could land a summer internship. I’ve read your guide on cold calling, so hopefully I could follow that and see some results. But you did mention that the banker may decide to “test my knowledge.” What kind of things do you recommend that I study or follow up with before cold calling for interviews?
Hi !
Maybe the question is posted on the wrong theme
But i dont know where else. I think it matches here the best.
Sorry if not.
My question is : What can i do for my reference to match better ?
Im going to study economic maths, which will take 3 years from now on.
Because my grades wont be the best , i have to glaze with my other qualifications on which i want to work hard, till te time comes i have to compete.
Im now working on my vba excel abilities, my bwl knowledge ( because we wont learn so much in university about that) and of course on my english.
But thats not enough for me and a job in the m&a . So i want to do everything possible .
What can i work on ?!
Which knowledge / ability makes me better than the others ?
Thanks a lot for your help
kai
Being able to network and join relevant finance associations will really help you!
Knowledge of finance and accounting, and most importantly, being able to present yourself and spin your story will make you stand out.
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/finance-low-gpa-no-experience-non-target-school/
So I got an summer IB internship offer at a boutique. They’re running a background check, which I had not expect since they are so small. Will they likely request an official transcript? My GPA when I submitted my resume was 3.53, but I had on my resume 3.6. Am I going to get dinged?
I’m thinking about studying abroad in London next year, which would include 7 weeks of classes and 7 weeks of an internship. Because the internship is shorter, though, my options are likely limited to…
Asset Management, Debt Capital Markets, Equity Research, Risk Management, Account Management, Private Client Services, Global Compliance, and Operations & Technology.
Of these possibilities, which ones do you think would provide the most valuable work experience and look most attractive to an employer?
I think the international work experience would be a huge plus, but I want to make sure I’m not wasting my time with an internship.
Thanks for the help!
For front office roles: Asset Management, Debt Capital Markets, Equity Research, Private Client Services. For some trading (also front office) roles: Risk Management
Yes the international work experience would be interesting!
Hi, will a low (3.1) undergrad GPA from a target school still haunt me if I am going through summer associate internship recruiting at a top 10 MBA program? If so, how would I get around this, especially if the MBA program has a no grade disclosure policy? Thank you.
Good question. If you had previous work experience in finance, it shouldn’t matter too much. I think your strong GMAT scores and MBA program should help you get around your low GPA.