Investment Banking in India: How to Break In Even If You’ve Been Out of School for 5+ Years and You Don’t Have a Finance Background
I get a lot of questions about this one, but everyone behind M&I is relatively clueless when it comes to India.
Luckily, that’s not the case with our readers – many of whom work in the region or are planning to in the near future.
This interview comes to you from a reader who landed a boutique investment banking Associate position in India, coming from a non-finance background (engineering).
Read on to learn all about investment banking in India, how it’s different from North America and Europe, and how you can break in.
Background
Q: Can you tell us about your background?
I was an Electrical Engineering major from one of India’s top engineering schools, and I worked at a top IT company here for 5 years, after being recruited on-campus.
I was on assignment in the UK for 2 years, and also had entrepreneurial experience co-founding a software firm.
Things did not work out and I chose to close it down a few months before starting my job search.
Q: Ok, so you started the job search after you had already been out of school for many years and after you had experience working full-time and starting your own company. What were the key challenges you faced in breaking into investment banking?
The two main ones:
- I didn’t have a finance degree, so most larger investment banks refused to even look at me.
- Many firms were reluctant to hire me due to my age.
Since investment banking is a relatively new field in India, the consensus here is that only Chartered Accountants (CAs) or finance MBAs can handle the job. I had to convince firms that even someone without those credentials could do it.
Also, many firms in India pick mostly post-graduates and offer them Associate roles – relatively few banks here actually have formal Analyst roles.
Q: Ok, so you faced quite a few challenges. What about the recruiting process in India? How is that different from other regions like Europe, North America, and East Asia?
I don’t have firsthand experience of applying to those regions, but here are some key points to be aware of in India:
First, there are far fewer front-office investment banking jobs – only around 2,000 to 3,000 total – despite the size of the economy. That means that bulge brackets are even more selective, and that they only pick students with MBAs from top schools in the US, Europe, or from the top Indian Institutes of Management (IIM). Sometimes CAs with a few years of banking experience are also picked for front-office roles.
Next, the majority of investment banking jobs in India are in knowledge process outsourcing firms (KPOs) – “Captive KPOs” (part of bulge bracket banks) and “3rd Party KPOs” that serve many clients.
It’s easy to get lured into working for these KPOs, but I strongly advise against it because you’ll get pigeonholed into making pitch books and doing valuations all day. They try to spin it in a positive light by sending you abroad for 2 months, but it’s not real front-office work – the exit opportunities are limited, so I would avoid this if at all possible.
Since the majority of investment banking jobs are at KPOs, the actual front-office teams at real banks here are small – maybe 30-40 people for bulge bracket banks and 5-15 for boutiques.
The interviews are similar to Europe / the US – you start with a phone interview first, then meet the Associate, VP, and so on.
Overall they’re more “by the book” and more technical – some firms also ask you to create models and complete case studies.
Most undergraduates are recruited from top engineering schools like IIT – unlike the West, the best Indian students go to engineering or medical schools, so that’s where banks recruit.
Breaking Into Investment Banking
Q: So you already had the odds stacked against you, and you were in an extremely competitive market with a lot of engineers trying to make the switch into finance. How did you set yourself apart from everyone else?
I knew that my resume was strong, since I had worked at a top IT company and also had experience starting my own – the only problem was that I lacked an MBA.
I used 3 strategies to set myself apart:
- I had been an active stock investor since college and had managed funds for several other people. I had decent returns over the years, and attached my portfolio performance over the past 5 years to my resume.
- I completed a short financial modeling course and leveraged that to get contacts in the field.
- I relied heavily on networking and cold-calling since on-campus recruiting wasn’t an option.
I thought about studying for the CFA as well, but then I saw your comments about it and decided not to!
Q: Maybe you can walk us through your networking process. I get a lot of questions on how to find names and contact information in the first place – how did you do this when you had already been out of school for years?
There were not many alumni from my college in investment banking, since the field is relatively new here. I got some contacts through the financial modeling training program I went through, and also used LinkedIn, Facebook, and plain Google searches to find people.
I cold-called over 200 firms to receive my first interview.
Q: Wow. So of those methods, which were most effective in getting you interviews?
I attended a lot of meetups in Mumbai that I found on social networks, but most folks didn’t respond positively because of my non-traditional background.
For me, cold-calling was the most effective networking strategy.
I was humiliated at first as I received rejection after rejection, but then I got used to it and kept at it since I knew from your other articles that cold-calling definitely worked.
I focused on boutiques, and after hundreds of calls and weeks of effort, I was invited to my first interview – and won an offer after 8 grueling rounds of interviews.
Q: I get a lot of questions on the usefulness of financial modeling courses. How much did yours help you?
It helped in 2 ways:
- I had no formal finance background, so I needed it to crack the interviews and pass any modeling tests they might have given me.
- Perhaps more importantly, I made some of my networking contacts through this course.
Even now after I’ve started, it has proven helpful because many boutique firms do not have formal training programs for Analysts – so it gave me a head start on everyone else.
Culture, Models, and Bottles
Q: How do salaries and bonuses in India compare to what you would earn in North America / Europe? Is everything based on local rates, or are you paid the equivalent Dollar / Euro salary?
In absolute terms, salaries are less than what you would get in New York or London, for example.
But the cost of living in India is also much lower – so if you take this into account, the actual quality of life you could get with your salary is comparable.
Here’s the pay scale for base salaries:
- Front-Office Bulge Bracket Banks – Pay the most, often higher than New York/London in PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) terms due to the lack of qualified candidates.
- “Captive” KPOs – Also pay a lot, but the work sucks.
- Boutiques - They start out lower than the “captive” KPOs, but salaries scale up higher after a few years.
- 3rd Party KPOs – Pay is the lowest and the work also sucks.
Exit opportunities from the first 3 here range from “decent” (KPOs) to “great” (boutiques / bulge brackets).
You should avoid the 3rd party KPOs – but also keep in mind that “captive” KPOs are a dying breed since many firms have sold their divisions.
Bonuses have been excellent at bulge bracket and middle-market firms here – in the boom years of 2003-2007, bonuses were 100-250% of base salary.
Boutique bonuses average 30-75% of base salary, while “captive” KPOs are 30-50%, and 3rd party KPOs are even less.
Q: How is the culture at Indian financial services firms different from what you see elsewhere in the world?
Indian firms tend to be more conservative, and the financial markets here are not as well-developed – the bond market is negligible and derivatives trading does not involve the complexity found in North America / Europe.
Also, business here is based on relationships and proximity to important government officials – it’s less “professional” than the West.
About Your Future
Q: You defied the odds and broke into investment banking after you were already out of school for years, in an incredibly competitive market. How will you leverage this experience in the future?
I want to work at a top private equity firm one day – but during my job search I found out that a top MBA is becoming indispensable for IB/PE jobs due to the branding and the network you gain in the process. People also tend to listen to you more readily if you have an MBA from a top business school.
So I’ll be pursuing an MBA in a year or two – but since I’ve already broken into investment banking, I’ll pursue a 1-year MBA rather than a 2-year program.
For Further Reading
We’ve focused here on how to get into finance in India – if you want to read all about consulting in India, check out Consulting Jobs in India and learn how to work for top firms like McKinsey, Bain, and BCG there.
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Hey,
Nice insightful article. I would like to add one more type of I-banks to the list, the Indian Full Service IBs like Kotak, ENAM and JM Financial, which rather surprisingly are missing from the list. They have fairly large teams (100+ in IBD) and I work in the M&A Advisory for one of them. As you had rightly pointed out, I too joined the bank straight out of an IIM. These banks concentrate mainly on IPOs and Trading but have a fairly large M&A team too.
And another curious difference is that in India, graduates, especially from non-finance background, hardly try to get into investment banks. And people at analysts levels are mostly Chartered Accountants and the more senior ones are MBAs who have less pre-MBA work experience ( People attend B-Schools earlier in India and hence are taken in at 3rd yr analyst levels)
P.S:- I had commented long back about IBs in India and you had replied that you will use them for your future posts. Some of that information might be relevant to this post.
Thanks for the info. I think the author (the interviewee) sort of included the Indian Full Service IBs along with the boutiques and bulge brackets, but that’s interesting to note the difference.
Suraj,
Is t true that IB at IIMs prefer freshers rather than ppl with work-ex ?
Thanks,
Kanishka
Yes
Is there someway I can position myslef better ?
Suraj,
I’m not sure if you’re aware of finance modeling course (10 weeks) which is run by a private school at Nariman Point, Mumbai. Now, as you’re a part of the I-bank already, do you think these banks come to recruit students with no prior finance background but short finance course? Any further interaction related to I-banking can be beneficial for me. Thanks.
Hi Suraj,
I was just wondering if these firms recruit from SPJain MBA?
Its very very competitive. In good times the answer is yes. I’d reccomend you checking out with the placement office.
Hi,
Wanted to understand the work done in M&A at junior levels.
Regards
hii.. I am an IIT recent graduate and looking for some IB internship in India. Can you plz tell m ewhat banks to try?
“Many firms were reluctant to hire me due to my age.”
Age is a BIG deal in Asia. I don’t know why, but it’s annoying when the first thing people ask is “how old are you?”
Dude that is the first question people in Korea always ask me. “How old are you?” before even getting my name. I think I’ve just gotten used to it…
After the age question and a few others, it’s:
“Do you have a girlfriend/boyfriend?”
Then. Where do you live?
That’s weird. In Asia, it supposed to be really impolite to ask people’s age when you just meet them .
Hi, M&I!
Another good article. I have been a reader for the web for some time and find it really helpful. I am now in a situation that needs some advice from people who have been in banking.
I am now a final year student majoring in Finance in a top Asian universities in HK. I had an internship with a regional hedge fund working as a research assistant. I hope to join S&T or research after graduation. I have applied almost all banks that are recruiting but hardly got any interviews. The problem is that banks almost recruit solely from overseas (US) and my internship was not with a big name. Also, I think networking does not work as much in HK as that in the US. I am confident that as long as I can get an interview, I can proceed well.
I currently have a part time offer of institutional sales from a top regional firm and it might be extended into a full-time offer but there is uncertainty. Other probable offers are big fours and some risk consulting firms.
I have been thinking about my way out and listed out several.
1. Going on with job hunting and see whether there is any positions opening in next year. Also try to turn the part time offer into a full time one. But there is a high probability that I have to end up in big 4, which I really don’t want.
2. Deferring grduation for 0.5-1 year. Try to leverage on my last summer internship and this part time job to land a summer intern with a big firm (not necessarily bb).
3. Similar to 1 but if I end up with only offers from big 4, I will pursue a Master of Finance in UK’s top 3 universities (US schools are much more difficult to apply).
I am really sorry for this lenthy post but I really appreciate your advice. Could you please give some comments on each alternative? Thanks!
Best,
Janet
I would apply to Master’s programs in the UK or US and then leverage that to recruit with more banks. You can keep job-hunting in the meantime, but going to a top school elsewhere gives you the best shot at getting an internship / FT offer.
Thanks for the advice.
How would you say about the master programs in, say, LSE/Oxford/Cambridge? Are those programs with high recognition in banking, at least in the process of CV screening?
I’m not an expert, but yes, I believe those are the top programs in the UK and you should receive recognition at banks.
HK office knows only those three UK universities. Others they have no idea.
Which are the existing top MBA programs that’s only for a year – except INSEAD?
Don’t know, think that’s the main one
The Indian School of Business : (ISB) is another top 1 year program and was recently ranked 12th by the FT12 rankings. Its defintely a very respected degree within India , but less known outside.
The pain of going to a one year program is that you dont get an opportunity to switch industry or intern with a BB. So if you want to move to IB , I’d be very very careful about joining a one year program anywhere. Waiting to hear M&I’s take on this.
I worked at CS India, IBD as an intern the previous summer. The analysts there were MBA’s as well. I would love to know how one could apply to banking jobs in India if you are doing your studies in the UK/US. I am doing a masters in Finance at a top UK target and I did my undergrad at Canada’s best school. Most indian bbs don’t have online application systems and I have no means of networking with people in India. Could anybody help me out in means of reaching people.
check your school alumni network. At least your canadian univeristy should have one.
Alumni, cold-calling, travel to India and meet with people in-person / at meetup events there….
Hi,
I’ve been an avid reader of your site for quite some time now, but regrettably only found it after my job search was over.
I graduated from a non-target US school with a respectable GPA in 2009 and though I got to Superdays with two BBs, I ultimately didn’t get an offer from either.
Amid the hectic economic times, I’ve managed to land a job and am currently working in the M&A department of a top Korean securities firm in Seoul.
I was wondering if you could give me any advice.
I am planning on getting an MBA 3 years down the road and ultimately end up in *surprise* large-cap PE (Blackstone). I have a 3.5+ GPA and a GMAT score of 710. How do you think I can maximize my chances of getting into HBS, Wharton and the like? Do you think it is wise to try to move to GS/MS or other BBs as soon as possible? If I did manage to successfully transfer in a year or so, would they consider me a “2nd-year analyst” or would I have to start from scratch?
Thanks a lot for your time.
By the way, I saw your twitter page as well and implied from your comments that you didn’t have a very great time in Seoul, which is unfortunate. Are you still in Seoul by any chance? If so, I would love to meet up. I’ll make sure you have no more “Saturday night FAIL”s. =)
To get into a large-cap PE firm you need to move to a US or European bulge bracket bank – you stand very little chance otherwise. I would move ASAP. That will also improve your chances at top business schools. See the article on lateral hiring for more on this – most likely you will have to start over.
I’m leaving for the Philippines shortly, but will be back in January. It’s not really an issue with Korea itself but more with my work schedule – I’ve had fun here, but I need to make some changes to how I spend my time.
Alex,
You probably know this already, but “BB” in Korea is a lot broader than NYC. Unless you plan on moving to NYC office, really should broaden your search beyond GS/MS.
And if you’re planning on going to Blackstone in Korea… I would network like crazy. Only way to get in is kissing/shining Blackstone MD’s Hermes loafers.
And no chance of going to Blackstone if you only have a “top Korean securities firm.”
More chance with GS/MS/JPM/CS/UBS/BOA-ML/BCS/Macq
Off topic, but do you think a PE internship before I begin my BB analyst stint would be helpful for recruiting for the buyside down the road? It may give me something to point towards when I explain how I became interested in private equity.
Yes it would help
I was actually looking for an article I read in the past that discussed 3 key points to get across when interviewing (motivation or drive?) and I was having trouble finding it. Do you have the link? I thought this would be faster than e-mail. Thanks
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/3-most-important-interview-questions/
Hi,
I was really glad to read this interview.. it has a lot of truth in it.. I’d like to add my perspective to it as well.
I live in Mumbai and graduated with a degree in management studies(undergraduate).. I was set on breaking into Investment banking and tried cold calling, emailing and even straight out walk-ins at all known Investment banking divisions, big and small.. however nobody seemed to be interested in taking on undergraduates in a junior analyst role here in Mumbai.
I even tried networking and managed to have an informational interview with a VP at one of the leading local brokerages.. who informed me of how the scenario is and the message i got is that theres no room for undergraduates.
I ended up working at a 3rd party KPO doing research for a bulge bracket. The pay is low, but its a learning experience which I hope will hold some value till I complete my postgraduation.
These are the views I’ve come to realise through my own experience:
Fact 1
I’d like to point out that MOST analysts at investment banks here in India ARE engineers.. (you can browse though linkedin and verify the same) and most IIM Mba’s ARE engineers as well.
Fact 2
No Investment bank here seems to be hiring undergraduates.. the requirements are MBA’s and CA’s only.
Fact 3
Most Investment banks have fewer than 100 analysts.. and openings are few and Investment banking is not a well developed field here in India..
Fact 4
A CFA certification is held in regard here in India.. simply because the state of education here in India is still pretty miserable, so an international certification adds a great deal of credibility, even though most bankers dont have one.
Thanks for the additions. The bit about the CFA is interesting, maybe India is the one region where it’s a good idea…
Hi,
Nice article.. I am really at the crossroads right now.. just finishing my MBA and have an offer from a boutique in Project finance profile (i know its not the best thing :-)…). Anyways, the point is i have a pre MBA workex in IT (very common in India).. and now i am thinking of starting on my CFA. I was just wondering whether it is useful in Indian scenario for a career in IB. Also what it takes to move into M&A dept after working in project/infrastructure finance.
CFA is probably more useful in India than in other regions. Moving into M&A: mostly networking, trying to show that you’ve done M&A-related projects in project finance.
Undergrads are now breaking in, but its one of the following :
a. Undergrads from top schools breaking into the Analyst programs of the BB’s that now visit India selectively.
b. In Equities , undergrads do definitely break in but at the smaller shops. A definite trend is that these undergrads are from smaller colleges in and around South Mumbai , who start out at measly salaries that others may not look at. But the career growth is stupendous.
c. Undergrads again work with some of the Big 4 firms – Deloitte , E&Y , PwC in their lead advisory – which isnt bad experience pre-MBA.. can land you a job at a BB post MBA if you go to a top school like IIM A/B/C or ISB in India , or a top US School.
Tis true, what the lady says…
Someone I know at a firm hasnt responded to my email (which requests a phone call to discuss his firm) and it’s been 2 weeks.
When I follow up should I reply to my sent message so he can see the original message OR should I send an entirely new email? How should I word it?
It doesn’t matter much, but you can quote the original one and say, “[Name], I emailed you last week – just wanted to follow-up and see if you had any availability to discuss…” and keep it very brief.
If I did something unrelated to banking/consulting before MBA, then did an associate stint at a bank or a strategy consulting firm after MBA, is it possible/likely to move towards private equity?
It’s possible but very difficult with no pre-MBA banking experience. They are mostly looking for former IBD analysts – even consultants have a hard time getting into most large PE firms.
I meant say after 2 years as an Associate is it realistic to move to PE? I heard they usually only recruit out of analyst classes just I was curious
It’s possible but rare. It was more common in the bubble (2005-2007) when PE was in need of more people – these days you might be able to pull it off at a small fund but it would still be tough.
Hey Brian I was wondering about your experiences working in IBD at locations like San Fran, Los Angeles, etc, basically non-NYC locations.
Are the exit ops worse off in the west coast? Can I still make it to PE? What is the advantage of working in NYC and should I transfer to my firm’s NYC office asap? Or will that be really hard and I should just look at lateralling to BB’s in NYC. If it helps, my group is industry such as Sponsors/TMT/Consumer,Healthcare.
Thanks a lot!
You are more limited to west coast opportunities if you start there. You can still get into PE but it’s harder to move to NY because you have to fly in for interviews. Generally people think that NY is more flexible / lets you move to more places vs. starting elsewhere. Transferring is up to you – if you really want to work in NY long term it’s a good idea but completely dependent on how difficult it is to do.
Thanks for your response. So then would I have a natural advantage for exit ops within the West coast then? I’m doing TMT and have an opportunity to go to the NY office but everyone tells me that would be a dumb move due to deal flow being better in the SF office. However, I still want to move to NY within 5 years, either after a MBA or lateral within groups.
I don’t mind doing PE/VC for West coast though, what are your thoughts on which location I should pick (W vs E)?
You would have a better chance on the west coast. If you really want to be in NY eventually, then I would go to the NY office right now instead.
Hi,
I am in the final year of my MBA (Finance) of one of the top 20 colleges in India (I know not a very good prospect). I have 3.5 yrs of prior work ex in IT as Business Analyst and currently I have cleared CFA Level 1 and appearing for Level 2 in June 2010. I want to know how good/bad my resume will look for a profile in I-Banking in India. Where are the opportunities (if any).
Thanks
You sound competitive – they key question is how many banks recruit at your school. I’m not familiar with the recruiting environment at all the universities in India, but it will come down to how many banks recruit there.
If possible can i get into equity research side and then shift to I-Banking… Is the shift possible and do the I-banks look at this with respect??
Yes, it’s possible – ER is certainly good, though banks view it as less similar than private equity, for example.
In India campus hiring in IB for BB is limited to IIM A,B,C , XLRI Jamshedpur and ISB.
For Sales & Trading roles , the IIM’s almost enjoy an exclusivity , due to the summer internship model.
Equity Research to IB is a longer shot.You are much better off trying your luck at either
a. One of the boutiques(Indian not international)
b. One of the public sector IB’s like SBI Capital , or IDBI Caps , which wont pay , but are a better entry route into the industry.
Hiring for BB firms in India happen from IIMs A,B,C and L. They also hire limitedly for their NY, London and HK offices from these colleges.
ISB students with non-finance work-ex are at a disadvantage because of it being a 1-yr course and consequently no internships. Still some BBs do visit ISB and hire people with prior finance work-ex.
Shifting from ER to IB is very uncommon and not a preferred route. Transition from KPOs of BBs to Indian IBs happens regularly, though you lose out on a couple of years.
Hello Sir, I am very inspired by your story.
Infact I am Engineer from one of the top 10 universities in India. Unlike, in your case I do not want to wait for 5 years to switch to IB. I am very passionate about finance. I have been working for 6 months in a small yet very resourceful place, analyzing and trading derivatives in the international markets especially Short term Interest Rate futures, U.S treasury notes and Crude Oil futures. I have a very decent pay package i.r 7.5 lpa at present. However monetary compensation is not my primary driving factor.
I would like to know about premier boutique ib’s in the country and also with the help of my qualifications how do i get there.
If possible please do pass me your personal email id. I was very moved by your interview, matched my situation to the word!
Thanks
I just became a ca, and will be giving my cfa level 3 in june.
After talking to many bankers, I realised that I dont want to work so hard. I can make more money teaching chartered accountancy.
But my dad thinks its better to work at a bb for a while, so that he can flaunt that when looking for a bride for me. True story.
Which brings me to my question. Can a CA get a profile/pay similar to whats offered to an mba with less work ex, ie at a third year analyst level maybe?
I’m not 100% certain there but I doubt it – banking pays more than almost anything accounting-related.
Not necessarily if you look at risk adjusted pay M&I … but then both CA’s and bankers cant think that deep :)
Hi
I will pass out from the best engineering school in India in June 2010.
I have a job offer from Credit Suisse IBD in their captive KPO.
Could you please tell me that is it possible to break into front office IBD in India from captive KPO. Also what BB’s actually have formal front end 1st/2nd year analyst roles.
Your response would be valuable to me as I come from a non finance background and at a crucial juncture of my career.
I think it’s possible to move from captive KPO to front-office IBD, though definitely not easy. I’m really not sure on BBs in India as this was an interview with a reader who’s more knowledgeable on the topic – perhaps another reader from the region could help out with an answer here.
Hey junta.
Is there anyone from the region who could answer my query ?.
Tanuj,
I am an investment banker from a boutique IB firm in India. At an 1st yr analyst level there is hardly any difference between a KPO and a front end role. You can definitely make the shift to front end. In India, a CFA (the american one) is regarded highly and I recommend you to complete atleast the level 1.
Galtz
It depends on what you are going to be doing in the KPO. It will definitely be good pre-MBA exp.
Can a fresher CA expect to get ANY sort of role in the front office M&A division of any bank india?
Not really sure, but I think you would need more experience first, based on what the interviewee said.
you spoke about Financial Modelling Course.. CAn you please tell me what course was it and from where can i do it ?
Thanks
Regards
Nitin
I don’t know which one it is offhand but I’ll see if the interviewee knows / could share it here
I am delighted to come across a forum like this.
I liked it for two reasons one is the conviction of going against the tide by breaking into finance (read IB) .Second is that I have been looking for something like this , as my story is similar without the desired results though.So far at least.
With a profile given below (age is not on my side at all), what (if there are) are the ways / steps to get into equity research /FRM / other roles in finance that can pave way for IB/PE industry.I dont want to assume that there isnt any.My own plans like doing a finance heavy EMBA from a very good school doesnt convince me getting into the industry of my choice.I would be very glad to get your comments/views/solutions.I can enrol in a relevant course or even study on my own ….if I know what to study.
Profile –
Keen Investor in Indian financial markets for the last four years. At one point had a personal portfolio of 3.5 M INR with good returns.This interest in stock markets led me to know and read more about finance and markets.I can read about stocks , investing and related stuff all day.
Currently in the role of Program manager in an IT company- a NASSCOM top 20 IT firm.
14 odd years with ten in IT and four in Sales.
International exposure , good communication skills .
Engineering from one of the top ten schools in India.
GMAT Quant – 46….and I can better this for sure.
At this point a top business school combined with a lot of networking is your best bet, similar to what the reader above did.
Thanks M&I !
Hi! I am international student and I go to a school in the US. I am doing an Economics and Mathematics major. I am currently doing an internship in a bulge bracket investment bank in India. But, my problem is I am not an Investment Banking Analyst over here instead I am Business Analyst doing some back office work. But, the good part about is that I am in touch with lot of bankers in the US and they all have asked for my resumes. As I had conversations with 4 bankers they all told me the problem is not having an investment banking internship, but it’s good that I have been productive and reaching out to people. So, through my persistent effort and networking, I have got an opportunity to change my division and get 3 weeks of working experience in Investment Banking.
So, my question is should I continue my networking in the US and try to get a job over there or I should focus on getting a job in India and then internal transferring to the US?
How many banker I should reach out to?
It will probably be easier to get a front-office job in India and then do an internal transfer to the US. You can keep networking but it’s usually easier to do that vs. trying to move to the US right away.
Moving from the backoffice to the front office was de rigeur in India during the hey-days of 2007-2008 with loads of folks from the capitives of BB moving to offices in Singapore , London , HK etc.
Things are very different now because of two reasons :
1. The backoffices have a LOT more people than they did earlier , so things are MUCH MUCH more competitive now than they were.
2. There are loads of folks that are now coming back to India especially doing an MBA from the US etc. So the supply side issues make it necessary to get into a front office IB in India.
IMHO , leverage the US education and try to angle for a front office job in India. Would be easier to sell when u try to move back to the US.
Hey
I have three I-Baking Internships all in M&A, and I go to an Ivy leauge school in the USA studying Electrical Engineering.
My I banking internships are in Standard Chartered (Sing) M&A, CS IBD M&A (Mumbai) – twice, freshman and junior year. (all FO of course)
However I have no internships in USA and was wondering if I would still get as much leeverage from the above BB internships to land a goldman/MS/CS job in NYC. I believe True Bankers go to NYC and cannot stand working the pussy hours in India.
The internships will definitely help, but as you mentioned bankers will discount them because they’re not NYC or London internshis.
Hello
Since this article is about investment banking in India, i thought it apt to post my queries here.
I am from India, and am currently pursuing a degree in an engineering college here (BITS Pilani). Over the past year or so, I have developed a keen interest in finance, and am hoping to pursue a career in the same. I wanted to know the criteria for getting an internship in one of the top investment banks/financial firms here. For me, the upside is my age (20), while the downside is my GPA (around 6/10). Also, is there any chance of landing a full time job in a financial firm as soon as I pass out of college? What can I do to improve my chances?
Thanks
It’s all about work experience… as he mentioned in the article, the CFA can also be helpful in India though I personally don’t like it. There are no real “criteria,” it’s more about the overall picture of how much you’ve networked and cold-called places, whether you’ve done internships and so on. I am not familiar with the grading system in India so I can’t comment on that, but you usually need to be in at least the top 25% to have a good shot.
Thanks. Any help from someone from India would also be appreciated.
BB hiring in India at under graduate level is limited and happens mostly from the IITs. And the Indian banks do not have an established process for hiring grads.
Best way to get in would be to network your way through Indian banks. Contact people through Linkedin or your alumni office.
Pratik, Sorry for being frank with you, but unless you have some amount of workex in fin area, a CFA level 2+ and an MBA from A,B,C; i think its a real up hill task, esp since you are not from target school (IIT B,D,K,KGP,M) and since your GPA is pretty sad.
hii.. same question here.. i am from IIT. GPA is 9/10. can you tell me what banks to search in india?
Hi,
I recently finished my under grad and I am currently working with JP Morgan in their Treasury and Securities division. My ultimate aim is however to get into IB and this is my first year at work. As you mentioned, there are not many under grad IB front office roles. IB roles here for under grads are more or less restricted to operations/KPO/Back office roles. What should my career path be? I intend to at the very least be an analyst before i do my Masters. I am not an engineering student from those colleges where banks visit. I have an under grad degree in Finance.
You have to use networking to move over to IB… if that doesn’t work, follow the advice of the interviewee above and think about courses and other certifications that might help.
I have a couple of certifications already. One is the Investments Administrative qualification for the Securities Investment Institute in London and I have an advance diploma in Finance from Cambridge. Thought of CFA, but M and I has helped me decide against it. How do I get networking contacts?
Moreover, how do I get networking contacts for Banks in Banking hubs like NY or London?
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/faq/#networking
Read the FAQ under Networking
Hello
I am currently pursuing MBA from one of the premiere MBA institutes in India. I have an offer from captive KPO of JP Morgan Chase. I have no previous experience in financial services. I am in big dilemma whether to accept the offer or not. Where can I take my career from here?(What are the exit opportunities?). Do PE firms consider the work-ex in a captive KPO as relevant?
It’s hard to move form captive KPO to PE – you can take the offer, but you would need to move over to real investment banking as fast as possible.
I can’t seem to find the correct place to post, so hope this works.
I am posting for a good friend of mine that seems to be really struggling here in the US. He is an experienced equity trader from India looking for the same type of position in the US. He has been looking for a job here and has only gotten rejections due to lack of experience in the US market.
What is the best way to get a job or even an internship here in equity trading?? Networking has proven extremely difficult – what is the best way to network when you don’t know anyone else in the field? Does it truly help to directly contact VP or Associates at banking companies, and what do you say to prevent them from dismissing you even though you don’t have experience in the market?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Cold-call small prop trading firms – banks are almost impossible unless you have gone to a top university or business school.
Hi,
I am pursuing MBA from one of the top10 B-Schools in India. In my college only equity research profile is offered by the banks like GS and JPMC. What is the career path if one wants to move to core I-Banking from there? Also how difficult it is?
Secondly, what about the work culture here in India? Are the work hours and other things same as in US? Ans also how thw quality of work done here differ from that done there in US?
Thanks!!
I am not an expert on India and have never even been there before so I couldn’t tell you – I would assume that what the interviewee says above about the work and culture is accurate. Moving into IB from ER is tough but possible… it all depends on networking, as with anything else in finance.
Almost impossible, even with CFA l3 and so on.. Where did u do ur MBA from? If its A/C then you can any day move, given the alum base. Else you can try…
Hi!
I am a PhD in stats and hold 6 years of experience in software and services sales in the BFSI and Telecom industry. I am currently looking to move into the IB industry. Can you please guide me for the same?
Thanks!
Go to a top MBA program.
I was hoping I could skip the MBA for another 2 years at least … any inputs ???
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/age-investment-banking/ – Unlike industries that make sense, in banking experience actually counts against you.
Hey! I did manage to cut across to a few firms through networking. Am currently facing a roadblock in terms of my CV. Any suggestions/sample on how I could reformat my CV to make it more suited to IB profiles?
Thanks!
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/recruiting/ Under “Resumes”
Thanks a lot!
Hi,
I am just finishing off my CA and want to get into m&a. Can you help in defining my career path. Are there any possibilties for me to work in somewhere like nyc or london. I am also thinking of doing certificate course in valuations from ICAI. will it help. Please reply
Your best bet is to network a lot as this reader did, start at a boutique in India, then move up to a bulge bracket bank there and then transfer to another location like NYC or London. Not sure of the value of certifications there.
Guys,
This article is amazing as it seems to be written just for me!
I am exactly in the same position as the writer as I am an engineer and out of school for 5+ years and without an MBA and am tryign to break into IB. I am from mumbai originally but been based in London for the last 8 years. Just like the writer I have also been using the same networking/cold-calling techniques and attending meetups in London to establish contacts and obtain informational interviews. I run my own engineering consulting business specialising in Risk Assessments/Probabilitic modelling, Monte Carlo simulations and Markov analysis for the transport sector and its this experience that I am tryign to leverage for the IB roles.
I know my age will be an issue in India and Europe as I am early 30s but cant let that stop me. I will be in India from Dec 14 for a month.
Can I speak to anyone from here regardign oppport. in Mumbai and London? Pls respond to this post and we can take it from there
Regards,
Ramesh
No one running the site has experience in Mumbai or London, but someone else reading may be able to respond and help.
I got an internship offer from a BB captive KPO. I’ve just completed engineering from a non-target school and I’ve had a shot at the CFA level 1 exam a few days back. What would be my prospects after this internship and maybe 1-2 years work ex out there? I wish to do an MBA after several years of work ex and was looking for real IB work ex before an MBA. Could somebody please suggest something? What’s the ideal time to exit from here if I take this up? Anything else I can do other than taking this up?
I have seen guys with IT/KPO experience suck at getting offers from IBs. Please see if you can get into a more analytical type of job – even consulting/analytics related to Fin helps. The brand name of MS/UBS KPO may get people to look at your resume but throw it out faster. Support functions are better than that – i think firms like nomura and CS have some trader support in India.
My $0.02
Hi Wrathchild,
Thnx for your reply. Could you elaborate more on the alternatives that you’ve mentioned. Even the BB KPO’s support the IB teams in NY/London. etc right? How are those different from the support funtions you’re talking about?
Great Site!!
I am a Indian CA and have completed CFA L1. Worked for a hedge fund proprietary equity research for more then 1 year. Now I want to shift to equity research in BB.
Currently have 1 job offer at hand. Pay is good. But its a “Third Party Captive KPO”, ie, it was a captive KPO of one of the big international IB, then it was taken over by a well known consulting company with exclusive service contract to the IB.
I also have interview scheduled with backoffice (@ Bangalore) of another IB. Role is of Analyst.
My question is:
what are my options considering the education and experience?
what kind of career path should i expect from both the options?
which one is better?
what are the exit opportunities from both?
Thanks a lot.
Not 100% sure as none of us knows a lot about India / KPOs there but you probably have a shot at the IB front office since you’ve been in equity research before… so I wouldn’t necessarily take either of those.
Just a simple observation – Please note the number of people who seem to be interested in IB who are from a KPO background… Seen it in my B school as well. I think the key to breaking in is developing an interesting and different profile that is relevant to some extent.
My $0.02
Dear Brian!
Thanks a ton! it is an excellent post with insightful comments. I was really stuck for some time and found the post very helpful. But would appreciate a quick suggestion on my situation.
My profile:
Did bachelor’s in Engg(India) in 2006 and worked in IT for 2 yrs. Given my success with leadership roles at national and international events, I chose to do a Masters with a French Grande Ecole(ranked 5th across world by Financial Times) in London’s campus. I formally got my degree with near distinction mark. Whilst my Masters, I did a six-month long expenses-paid internship(have high commitment and passion) in M&A advisory in Hungary. I came back to London after that to find I don’t get called by BBs in London, recruiters discourage me saying I am not from Oxbridge, and ask me for UK experience. My constraint in getting a work experience is my visa status.
I hit this brickwall time and again. BBs do process work permit but don’t call me. Smaller firms don’t process work permit and want Oxbridge candidates(feedback given by recruiters here).
Could you suggest me how can I work around the roadblocks? I am 27 yrs old now.
Which options would you vote for?
1. Change of place: like US as a student in MS(Fin) courses? This would be herculean task as I am yet to recover my investment in my current Masters.
2. Do a course with Oxbridge?
3. Keep being a student in London doing CFA?
4. Enter into Audit role where in I can gain CA/ ACA/ ACCA qualification and then try for Associate roles within IB, but question arises do BBs accept outside candidates into their front office roles?
One last question: Do I stand a good chance in India just in case I have to return back?
Thanks in advance! I really appreciate any suggestions by anyone!
Maybe do a program at LSE? CFA won’t really help at this point. I would go for LSE/Oxbridge and if that doesn’t work or you can’t do them, think about the audit roles and move into finance from there. India I’m not sure about but you should at least have a shot.
Thanks Brian! That is valuable piece of advice. Also, excuse me for duplication of question on one of your other posts :)
Hi M&I,
I am a final year undergrad from India’s topmost commerce college. I am aiming to be an ibanker(M&A).Since Bulge Bracket investment banks only recuit undergrads from IITs I at the best could bag a ib analyst offer from UBS Investment Bank’s captive KPO in hyderabad.I also have an offer to work in audit role from Big 4 as I am midway chartered accountant course(not full CA).
Question is:
” Should I opt for position in the captive Kpo, then aim for front office role or continue with Ca and then search for a role in front office”.
Some years down the line after getting significant work ex I am aiming to do mba from a ivy league BSchool.At that time which option made today out of the two above will fetch me better.
Looking forward to hearing from anyone.
Thanx a lot.
Probably better to do CA –> front office as the interviewee makes it seem like KPOs are not desirable.
Thanx
If you are from the topmost commerce college then you shud have seen lot of IBs recruiting (SRCC i mean). Even otherwise get an MBA from A/C or even B. You will see the BBs falling at you feet with offers :D
Yeah u r absolutely right, I m from SRCC and let me make u aware that the job scene here is not that pleasant as u think when compared to IITs from IB perspective. This is bcuz IB is not very popular in Srcc and people r more interested in doing CA,CS,CWA,CAT.Also limited BBs like DBank, Citi actually recruit atmost 2 guys who r able to show attractive internships. For guys like me who have only merit to support them(I am a topper in college) their r limited options. As far as your suggestion abt doing mba frm A,B,C is concerned, I thnk it is better to do mba from Harvard, Wharton etc particularly If a person like m is aiming for IBD(M&A) in America, EMEA region.
As far as my position in UBS is concerned, though its a offshore profile I opted for it after analysing the work which involves analytics and supporting IBD deal teams across various regions EMEA, AMERICA, APAC.
I think in future, while applying to ivy league BSchools I will have to lay emphasis on the kind of work I was doing not where I was working.Although NYC or London is important but I have no other option.
COMMENT……PLEASE
Thanx
Sorry for the delay.
I agree that an MBA from abroad will help you enter IBD in EMEA, US etc. But its a question of years you wud like to wait b4 getting into IB… Again, I would discount the UBS KPO internship anyday. Much more significantly if I was applying for a US MBA…
Take the options that you have and plan carefully. See if you can jump to front office or risk management (mid office) in 2 years.
Thanx sir for your valuable advice. After going thru this forum I have decided not to go further with Kpo offer. Rather I m considering big 4 ca articleship(3 yrs training-mandatory for ca qualification). I wud like to ask-in which area should i do m training(audit or tax) particularly if i want to b ibanker(M&A).
Thanx again!!!!
just curious cuz you were in Korea for a while…
what was your job when you were in Korea??
are you ever planning to write about ibanks in Korea?
if you are, i would really appreciate it because i am most interested in ibanks in Korea! !
thank you!
I was a drug dealer there, but they arrested and then deported me. Banks in Korea are small and if you want to be in Asia I’d strongly recommend HK or possibly Singapore instead.
Hey M&I,
First off I’d like to start of by saying this is an excellent article. I myself am in somewhat of a quandry at the moment. I’ve been interested in finance and investment banking for quite a while now. Unfortunately I graduated with pretty poor grade (6.9/10) in mechanical engineering from a non target school in India. I spent nearly 4 months trying to land an entry level role somewhere in India. But because of my non finance background and poor grades that really didn’t work out. Currently i’m working in the Sultanate of oman in a large scale trading house as a managment trainee (sales) specialising in their engineering products division. I had initially planned to clear 2 levels of cfa and then maybe try again to enter the finance market gain some work experience and move on for my mba. But now after reading this article i’m highly sceptical. The author recommends against KPO’s which would be the easier section to get into and the others state that breaking in BB’s is brutally tough if you aren’t from a target school. My query here is that will the clearing 2 levels of the cfa assist me in anyway in landing an entry level position or should I go about this some other way ?? And should I start looking into the IB scene in the GCC also ? Or should I just concentrate on getting into a good B-school since I stand no chance at the moment ? Please feel free to be brutally honest :D
It may help but it won’t be enough to make you on par with people from target schools there. Yes I would look into IB in the GCC region and if that doesn’t work out, think about a top business school.
Hi M&I,
I am a B.E and PGDM, currently working in an MNC Bank as a Wealth Manager(Since two years) into Private banking domain.
Could you suggest me a way to enter into Investment Banking domain, considering my current profession, as i do not have any knowledge of Investment banking.
Please reply
Start networking with alumni, do some cold-calling, see what happens, if you don’t get good results consider a Master’s in Finance program or top MBA.
First of all thanks on putting up such an informative site. I have been reading all your comments and it has definitely enlightened.
Coming to my query. I am an Bcom & ACCA with few months experience of audit role in a big 4. Currently working with a BPO set up for last 2.5 years in their Finance and Accounting sector. Through my networking i am planning to put in my application at leading IB in India. Now my worry is
1) whether it is a right option considering i do not have much knowledge of this field even though i love bloomberg & number game
2) In the long run I would like to get into mainstream banking in a role which combines numbers & people
Very confused. Please advise. Thanks
I would wait a year before applying.
I have completed CA(equivalent CPA) and have cleared CFA level 1 Exam in December 2010. I am keen to to pursue investment banking career. What are the prospects of getting in
Depends on where you want to school, work experience…
Hi,
I have recently joined Transaction Advisory Services in one of the Big 4′s . Would like to move to IB in near future.What should i do?
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/breaking-into-investment-banking-accountant/
Can you publish the dates of the comments and of the main post? India is changing so fast, that it is good to have dates and see if all this information is still relevant.
With KPO fully in place, the dates would help figure out how much of bulge bracket jobs vs KPO jobs are out there and if those figures will change in future, etc.
Thought about it before but most of the content here is evergreen and so dates would hurt the site (would rather just delete older content); this one on India is recent (2010) and I don’t think much has changed since then.
Hi,
I am pursuing Masters in Quantitative finance from a good UK university. As you have discussed above, even i have realised that most of the jobs go to the CAs, Engineers etc.. So i am a bit apprehensive since Qf is a new subject in India ,will a masters in QF help me to get into an Investment banking in India ?
Thanks
It might help but as you said most jobs go to CAs and engineers – so it would probably be more helpful on the S&T side.
I am currently working as a content writer and SEO analyst for the past 5 years.
I passed my class 12 (with Science) with 70.5 percent marks. I am in the final year of my BBA (corres. Annamalai University), and doing CS.
What is the best way to enter into corporate finance? I would like to hear what others say in this regard.
hi there..
im 20 yr old b.com (3rd year) , CA final(New course) , CS final(new Course), will go for CFA and MBA after my graduation…
will it be possible to break into investment banking/private equity for me at all ??
thanx
*PEACE*
Really depends on your school, work experience, and how much networking you’ve done
Hi
Hope you are doing well.I am currently working in a 3rd Party KPO. Since this article is against working there, so how do I switch to IB or boutique firms specially in India.
thanx a lot.
Probably have to network a lot, similar to what this interviewee did, and/or go to a top business school and/or become a CA.
I have gone through the article and it has been very enlightening to say the least.
Here is my story and I would appreciate if anyone could throw in opinions. I am a resident of Mumbai, a BE with 1 yr IT experience in a top firm. Thereafter did my MBA from a reputed though a non target school(biggest mistake of my life). I stumbled upon the authors disapproval of CFA but I had already appeared for my Level 3 exam.
I have been looking for jobs for a yr now. I did not take up just about any job because I did not want to get into in a non relevant field and then go through the process of finding a way back.
My problem:
1. I am exhausted of contacts and cold calling hasn’t worked either. What do you think should be the way forward?
2. I am losing my confidence and not sure of how long should I wait it out.
Any genuine help will be highly appreciated. Thanks.
At this point you should probably go for positions outside of IB/PE (i.e. wealth management or asset management) because they’ll be easier to get and don’t require top schools as much
I am doing my CA Final and working in an Investment banking firm. I would like to move to dubai after completing my CA.
I want to know whether Factset Certification in finance modelling coupled with I banking experience in India could get me a opportunity to work in I banking in Dubai..
No. http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/degrees-certifications/
I am CA passout of 2008 batch.
As part of industrial training have worked in Investment team of one of largest AMC (mutual fund) in India for 1 year.
On qualifying couldn`t find suitable job during financial tsunami of 2008 for about a year.
Since past 2 year I am into CA practice. Have been trying to get into IB , PE and other financial instituions.
Need some guidance from person well-experience in IB / PE / financial institutions.
Thanks
he got interview offer after applying in 200 firms.
how come there are 200 investment banks in india.I am from india and there may be 20-30 banks
I don’t know, they probably weren’t all pure banks
yep. seriously how come 200 firms? no way. wrong info. needs to be corrected.. and small banks? u dont need to apply for 200 banks to get into. I hope this guy really did break into a big or reputed IB.
We don’t verify every single piece of information that an interviewee provides, because doing so would be both time-consuming and impossible due to privacy issues.
There may not indeed by 200 banks in India, but I’m sure he applied to other types of firms as well, whether KPO, non-pure-play banks, and so on.