How to Get Into Investment Banking from an Unknown State School with No Finance Background: Case Study
Continuing my efforts to eliminate the “All your advice only applies to people who went to Harvard and have 4.0 GPAs!” comments, today I’ve created a case study of one reader – and previous resume customer – who got into investment banking despite coming from an unknown school with a minimal finance background.
I can’t give names of schools, banks, or people – but everything you’re about to read is both true and immediately actionable.
Q: Ok, so how did you get into this industry in the first place? I mean, people from Ivy League schools with top grades are struggling to get into banking in this environment, and bulge bracket analysts are struggling to get PE opportunities. What’s your magic bullet?
A: I got interested my freshman year, but I had no finance background and I was at an unknown state school where hardly anyone went into the industry. We had no on-campus recruiting.
My first step was getting an accounting internship following my freshman year – but I told the MDs there that I was actually interested in investment banking, and they got me referrals to local boutiques and merchant banks in the area.
I saw a few ads for merchant banks on my school’s website, but rather than applying online, I decided to call them directly and tell them I was interested. After I spoke with someone live, I submitted my resume and then called the next day to follow-up and make sure they had received it.
Then I got into a pattern where I would spend most of Saturday researching boutiques and local firms online, look at transactions they had done, and then cold-call them on Monday and Tuesday of each week. I’d try to email at least 5 banks per day.
I just kept calling until I got a response – sometimes it took many, many tries to get through.
I eventually landed an offer at a local bank from my sophomore to junior year – then I went through recruiting this past fall, got an offer at a well-known boutique, had it rescinded due to the economy, and then finally got another full-time offer recently.
Comments: Notice how he started calling banks rather than just applying online – remember, no one reads applications submitted online. Also pay attention to how he got into a regular schedule for his networking efforts, and how he kept at it every day until he got responses. Too many people either wait until the last minute, or don’t try at all to begin with.
Q: Wow, sounds like quite the journey. Coming from that kind of background, you must have faced a lot of “objections” in your recruiting efforts. What were the top reasons bankers said “no” to you and how did you overcome them?
A: They had a lot of concerns, but I’d say there were 3 main “objections”:
- “You’re from a no-name school – why should I hire you over the guy from Princeton or Wharton?”
- “You have a pretty good (3.8) GPA – but what does that mean coming from your school? That’s equivalent to a 2.0 at an Ivy League school, right?”
- “Why didn’t you go to a better school? You seem like a smart guy, I’m sure you could have at least gotten into a better-known state school.”
To overcome objection #1, I pointed out that it’s the person who does the work – not the school. There are plenty of people from top schools who are privileged and unmotivated, but they knew I was hungry and eager to get in.
To answer questions about my GPA, I pointed out that I was also working 30 hours per week and paying for rent and my tuition – so I was actually working way harder than many other students and still getting good grades.
For objection #3, I said that I couldn’t afford a “good” school – I didn’t come from a privileged background and I had to finance my education by myself, so I just went to the best place I could given my budget constraints.
Comments: These are great ways to overcome the resistance he faced. Whenever you get questioned about your credentials, you should always point to what you’ve accomplished rather than the prestige (or lack thereof) of the names on your resume.
Q: Ok, but how well did that story resonate with everyone? Some people in finance are not so receptive if you don’t come from the “standard” background.
A: Most people accepted the story. I did run into a few people with Ivy League undergrad / MBA backgrounds who couldn’t understand the concept of coming from a family that couldn’t afford $50,000/year tuition, but most people “got it.”
Comments: Sometimes you’ll run into people who just say “no” no matter what you do – if that happens, you need to move on and not try to win them over, because your time is better spent elsewhere. There are lots of people who are willing to listen to your story.
Q: You must have found a high percentage of “nice” bankers, that’s pretty amazing.
How did you actually approach firms differently from how someone at a top school would?
A: I was a lot more persistent, for one. I never stopped at just speaking to HR or to an administrative person – I’d always try to speak with at least an Associate or VP, and if they didn’t call me back, I would call back 2 days later to get someone else on the phone.
I made sure every phone call resulted in either speaking with someone real, or getting a real banker’s name and email address.
Comments: This is a great point – if you’re not collecting names, email addresses, and phone numbers when you’re cold-calling places, you’re wasting your time.
Q: What was your response rate when you were contacting these firms?
A: It started out at almost nothing, and I wasn’t sure why since I felt my approach and cold-calling skills were fairly solid.
I thought the problem might be my resume, so I had you edit it for me and then my response rate jumped a lot higher – by the end I was getting responses from around 50-75% of banks after I had a stronger resume.
Thanks!
Comments: [Insert subtle message right here that blatantly sells my resume editing service, before the price goes up again on July 1.]
Q: No problem, I can’t take all the credit for that one though.
One point that a lot of readers struggle with is getting contact information in the first place – how did you do that? When you cold-call, sometimes they’re very reluctant to give you anyone’s contact information or put you in touch with bankers.
A: If I couldn’t find it on the website, I would call the secretary to ask about it and say, “Who can I speak to regarding recruiting / employment here?”
Sometimes they would transfer me, and sometimes they wouldn’t – one “trick” I learned is that when I got transferred to voicemail, I would immediately hang up, call back, say I got disconnected, and then just ask for the real contact information.
They were more likely to give me real contact information (the actual first and last name, spelled out, of the person in charge of recruiting) on my second try – since I said “I got disconnected,” they assumed it was a problem on their end.
The other reason I did this was to ask for the secretary’s email address – once I learned what the company’s email format was, I then applied it using the recruiter’s first name and last name she just gave me.
I also got some referrals from the alumni database, though there wasn’t a lot there – in those cases, I just emailed the alumni first and made sure to point out where I found them.
Sometimes I also just did simple Google searches – “@ubs.com,” for example, would give me contact information for anyone there who put their address online.
Yet another method: I looked through old job postings on Doostang and Monstertrak, and wrote down names of firms I wasn’t familiar with.
On Doostang, I looked through users’ profiles to find firm names as well – this gave me names that weren’t listed in any boutique database online.
Comments: I love his trick for getting real contact information by claiming he got disconnected the first time – you should learn this and apply it to every cold-call you make.
Online searches tend to be hit-or-miss, but it’s worth a shot if you have the time – just make sure that you’re not spending all your time looking for email addresses online, since calling is almost always a better option.
Q: Ok, so when you were emailing these people you came from a relatively unknown school without much finance experience – only that 1 accounting internship. Did you do anything to make yourself stand out or get their attention more effectively?
A: In my initial emails, I tried to make myself sound more experienced than I actually was. I would position myself as having been in the market before, and that I wasn’t just an undergrad looking to break in.
I would always write something like, “I’ve worked at XYZ and XYZ firms before in XYZ industry, and I’m interested in learning more about opportunities at your firm” to avoid sounding like too much of a student.
Comments: This is a really good approach since he was coming from an unknown school. If he had gone to a top school, it would be good to point that out (“I’m currently a junior at Wharton and have worked at XYZ firms before…”) but when you don’t have an impressive name, it’s better to leave it out.
Q: One of my most common questions is, “How do I follow-up? How often do I send emails to check in with people I’ve already spoken with?”
I usually say, “Don’t email or call them every week, but make sure you’re staying on their radar,” but that’s more applicable if you’re developing long-term relationships.
Did you do anything differently to follow-up since you were focused on cold-calling local and smaller firms?
A: After I emailed a firm with my resume, I would wait 2 days to follow-up with a call. Then I’d wait a few more days and email them, then call again, and then if there was still no response I would email them to suggest a date and time for a call.
If I still didn’t get a response after 4 separate follow-ups within the span of a week, I would wait 1.5 – 2 weeks and then try again with a series of follow-up calls and emails within a week.
Some banks didn’t respond at all, and some did – there wasn’t much of a pattern to it, and it was more of a numbers game than anything else.
Comments: This is pretty aggressive follow-up, but it worked well for him since he was calling and emailing specifically for internships. I would not be so aggressive if these were just informational interviews, as it might freak out the people involved.
Q: You were pretty successful in your recruiting – is there anything you would have done differently, looking back on it now?
A: I would have started earlier, for one. It’s never too early to get started – even if you don’t know 100% whether or not you want to do banking, it always helps to start building relationships early.
Outside recruiting, I would have focused more on “fit” questions rather than spending all my time studying the technical ones.
You’re more likely to get tons of technical questions if you’ve had a previous banking internship. I found myself well-prepared on the technical side, but stumbling when it came to basic “fit” questions like “Tell me your strengths and weaknesses.”
Also, lower your expectations. If you expect everyone to say “no,” or you expect the worst in interviews, then anything better than that is a success.
Comments: Everyone always seems to have a different story when it comes to “fit” vs. technical questions – but I agree with him that lots of technical questions are more likely if you’ve had previous banking experience.
Q: Sounds good. Any parting advice for students still looking for internships or jobs, or for anyone out of work right now looking?
A: Keep at it. If you don’t get something right now, don’t give up until you have something lined up – a friend of mine was about to graduate with nothing lined up, but then he went around and started offering to work for free.
That allowed him to be way more competitive – and he got several unpaid opportunities, which could turn into paid options later on.
Also, look at my own story – I had my offer rescinded after I got it, then went around and continued to recruit until I found something else this spring… you just never know, and giving up too soon is a huge mistake especially when you’re dealing with small firms that recruit year-round.
Comments: Well-said – there’s no substitute for persistence. Offering to work for free can be a good idea, but mostly if you’re an undergraduate – it doesn’t work so well for MBAs or anyone with more experience.
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Is a Hedge Fund internship better than a Consulting internship or vice versa if I am unable to obtain an i-banking/pe internship for the summer? Should I try cold-calling boutiques instead? (I’m planning for summer analyst recruiting this upcoming winter)
It depends on what you want to do. For IBD, hedge funds are probably better… consulting might be better if you’re not 100% certain yet.
You could still try cold-calling at this late stage but it will be tough since most firms are no longer actively hiring.
I’m hoping to get into IBD. I forgot to mention that the consulting position deals with sourcing potential M&A opportunities to emerging growth companies.
Do you think I can somehow spin that in my story and would that be better than the hedge fund internship?
Consulting might be better in that case.
Another great read for us non-target school grads!
Kind of related qustion:
I recently graduated (high Gpa but non-target) and accepted an offer for an internship at a pharmaceutical startup for the summer since I really had no other options at the time (figured the ground up exposure and B2B sales would be good experience i could spin later on). Then today I was contaced by a local boutique I-bank that i had cold emailed and he wanted to schedule an interview. I told him my situation and that i would like to keep in touch, what would be the best way to follow up on this and try to position myself for this fall? I was thinking of trying to meet up sometime this summer but i feel like an informational interview might be a little weird for the situation. Thanks!
Just tell him in the fall when you’re ready to interview… maybe just send a quick update email over the summer but keep it very casual until you’re ready to speak to him and interview for real.
I went to a small private school that had no on campus recruiting. I would echo most of the above comments–the key is to make as many friends and contacts as you can in the process. I hesitate to share my secret, but I will anyway for discussion purposes since it wasn’t mentioned above. I happened to go to school near a large city, and banks happened to recruit at a fairly prestigious school down the road, so I managed to get a hold of their recruiting calendar and then called banks to seek permission to show up at their info sessions. Pretty much no bank said “no” to me showing up although I would say there were two outcomes either:
1) the recruiting team gave me a swift “no” since I wasn’t from the school (these people were the super elitest types that just couldn’t get over the credentials, as mentioned above) or
2) it ended up working really well as the recruiting team was impressed by my initiative; in fact I’d say in certain cases I had a leg up since HR sometimes alerted them that so-and-so from a non-target kid might show up, so I was already on their radar and they were looking for me after the info session
Even in the most successful case it can be impossible to get on the interview schedule on-campus depending on the school/system, but even if that was the case, the firm would agree to interview me if I traveled to New York
If every non-target kid did this, it obviously wouldn’t work in the long run, but it worked for me and I though I’d throw it out there.
What I would like to hear about is M&I’s thoughts on PE/buy-side ops for non-target undergrad kids. I’ve been ranked at the top of my analyst class every year and have a lot of credibility inside my firm, but I’ve found that PE shops almost never go for kids who went to non-target schools no matter how good their analyst performance was. I suspect it’s a suppply/demand thing (why take a chance on a non-target when you’ve got a ton of good ivy leaguers who were in the same class). I also feel that certain b-schools still place a lot of emphasis on your undergrad school…
I would never have asked permission first, I just show up. But then, I piss off a lot of people so who knows hahaha.
Yeah, PE is tough without a good name. It’s a prestige-driven industry and you usually need a solid name to get into the top places.. exceptions apply, but it is so much smaller than IBD that it’s tough without a great school. Which is why people often go back to b-school to get into PE.
i think this should be the make or break factor
“Then I got into a pattern where I would spend most of Saturday researching boutiques and local firms online, look at transactions they had done, and then cold-call them on Monday and Tuesday of each week. I’d try to email at least 5 banks per day.
I just kept calling until I got a response – sometimes it took many, many tries to get through.”
As with nearly anything else in life, if you want it badly enough you will find a way to get it.
I don’t believe anyone who says, “I can’t do…” until they have spent 5,000 hours on it and tried every single strategy/approach/company out there.
“I can’t do” really means “I don’t want it badly enough.”
I’ll be working at a top prop trading firm full-time this fall (DRW, SIG, Jane St, CTC, etc)
I’m still interested in eventually going into IBD or PE in the future, even if the money/bonus is lower. how are top prop shops viewed by the BBs or PE firms? and say if i worked for 2-3 years as a trader at a top prop firm, will i still be starting as an analyst at a BB or an associate?
thanks!
Could go either way there… generally the top places are respected, but bankers are distinctly biased against traders. I think your level would depend on the economy and how that firm is doing – you’re more likely to be an Associate at a smaller bank vs. if you went to a BB following your years at the prop shop.
Audit Accountant v. Tax Accountant:
M&I… which of the two accounting backgrounds above do you think mirrors the work of a financial analyst more closely? Do you think that either one works more closely with bankers?
Neither one is particularly close, but audit accountant is probably closer because you do more financial statement analysis whereas tax is more niche.
Very nice article…I’m really happy for him!
:-)
Great article & advice!
“Sometimes I also just did simple Google searches – “@ubs.com,” for example, would give me contact information for anyone there who put their address online.”
– Not sure if this works anymore, tried this personally. I think google blocks these types of searches on purpose to stop spam crawlers…
But will certainly give “call back got disconnected” strategy a try! =)
Try Yahoo!
Hey random question. I might be interested in a career in IB. this summer (im going into my junior year) I am doing an internship at Northwestern Mutual up in MA, how would that help in next years internship recruiting process?
It’s marginally helpful (better than being a pool boy for example), but less helpful than something like banking, private equity, etc.
Wow, what a powerful story! This is a great article that boosted my morale.
I am looking forward do start my cold calling sessions.
M&I.com keep up the great work and articles!!!!
Good luck!
Hey M&I,
I actually got a question. I had an internship interview (sort of ’cause it wasn’t very technical or fit ) with a boutique last month (probably unpaid). At the end of the phone conversation, the MD told me to let her know my decision at the end of this month to work things out. So I assume that I got the opportunity (she didn’t specifically say I was accepted or anything like that). I told her my decision that I’m very happy to intern at the firm this summer yesterday and asked for the start date and stuff. But she replied and said “still thinking about it and will let me know right when she decides”. What does that “still thinking ’bout it” mean? Is that about just the start-date or about me being offered to work at the boutique? This is tricky and I’m a bit worried ’cause if she was just tryin’ to avoid telling me that I can’t work, then I would have to start cold-calling/emailing other boutiques all over again n it’s kinda late now.
How do I handle this? What do you think?
Thanks a lot.
That sounds very strange. I would call her back and say, “I appreciate the offer and am very excited to work for you – however, I do need to respond to a couple other opportunities, so I need to have a definitive answer within the next week.” It sounds like they’re interested but not sure if they actually need to hire someone, so I would try to get them to decide by giving them a deadline.
M&I,
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I emailed her yesterday saying that I’m happy n excited to work for them this summer, since she told me to give her my decision by late March. During the conversation last month, she mentioned that they have interns coming every summer. So, I think they have some sort of internship program. The problem is I just don’t know what is implied in her reply to my email asking when I can start as she said “still thinking, and will let me know when she decides”. So confusing.
But yeah, I will definitely try to give them a deadline to see where the problem lies.
Hey M&I,
I did what you suggested and contacted the MD. What she told me was she hasn’t made up her mind yet about my qualifications compared to other applicants and will contact when she finally decides. It sounds like I’m not totally out or in yet. Do you have any suggestion to improve my chance at this point?
Thanks a lot for your advice.
There’s not much you can do now other than to follow-up periodically and make sure you stay on her radar
This story kind of resonated with me. It’s the summer after my junior year (at a large state school, went here for financial reasons) and I will be interning at an asset management firm for the next 10 months. I’ve got a 3.5 gpa, 1600 SAT, decent activities/leadership/etc, however, this internship will be my only notable and relevant work experience. The city and state that my school is in has a moderate amount of banks, mostly midsize (think Houlihan, Lazard) and my school is the best in the area. However, there is not much national clout behind the name. Do I have a decent chance at banking with the big boys, or are the HYS kids going to beat me out?
It really depends on how much networking you do. If you get to know a lot of people at a lot of banks, you will get interviews there; if not, then you won’t. As mentioned in the article, some bankers care a lot about your school’s name but most don’t care as long as you’re qualified.
When is the best month/ time of year to start looking for internships if you’re from a non-target?
As early as possible… ideally sometime in the fall well before summer internship recruiting begins in Dec./Jan. so you have time to network.
I think there is one point missing here– you DO have to apply online–whether you want it or not because in the end even if you network with someone and they get an interview, you still need to make sure they have your information before the deadline. Am I right?
Yes if you mean “apply online” as in “send it through your school’s official system that exists because banks actually read applications from there since it’s a target school.” If you apply blindly online without going through your school’s system, that has limited effectiveness.
I have no choice but to apply for SA positions online since I am abroad. What are my options in terms of networking and should I focus my applications on my study abroad country instead?
You can still network if you’re in a different country…. see what someone did here: http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/private-equity-internship-china/ It really depends where you’re studying and where you’re from but yes, focusing on just the country you’re in might make sense.
Great article. I am current a senior at a non-target school with 3.56 GPA(Fin and Acct. major, 4.0 Finance GPA). I had an accounting internship at Princeton University, and I current intern at UBS Wealth Management under CFPs. The people there are pretty impress with me and referred me to graduate program at UBS. Someone at UBS knows the HR person at Blackrock also helped me to send my resume there for their graduate program. I dropped out from engineering school when I was young(now I am 25), and now I go to a small private school. I recently got rejected from BOA Merril(one of my roommates works at their HR department submitted a resume to her boss). I also got rejected from Deloitte(I was going to get into Big 4 Acct firm, then apply for one of those target school in a few years to get into IB) after 2nd interview. I live very close to Princeton and I am only 40 min. from NYC. Here are some of my questions. How much impact does Wealth Management branch manager’s recommendation would have on IB or PE graduate program? Should I cold call Goldman or Blackrock(I am not far away from them). Most of the firms around me are large firms, would I have a slim chance to get into one of those top firms if I didn’t attend one of the target schools?
Wealth management recommendation does not have much impact unless they know the other people well. And yes cold-call anyone you can but focus on smaller places – your chances are low at huge firms unless you went to a top school.
I looked up lots of phone numbers during the thanksgiving break. Could you please give me some cold call tips? How can I start a conversation if I get the chance to talk to one of the HR people? Thank you very much.
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/turn-cold-calls-warm-follow-up-alumni-conversations/
I made 6 cold calls so far. They all told me they either have the positions filled already or I can only apply through the website. Is there anything else I can do here?
I made a few additional calls. I am doing everything you guys suggested so far. Am I too late to the game at this point? I am going to keep calling for the next few days. If I don’t hear anything from any of the firms, should I study for my CPA or CFA level 1 exam and try to get an audit job or portfolio management analyst position and try grad school in a few years(apply for associate internship in IBD a few years from now)? Or should I spend my time keep calling as many firms as possible in the next few months before my graduation?
Again, you have to be persistent – cold-calling is not something to expect results from in a few days. I would pursue one of those other jobs for now but still spend 30 minutes to an hour per day cold-calling firms in the background.
You have to be persistent – if you look at the case studies here, many people kept calling back repeatedly over weeks and months and checking back. Also expand the firms you’re calling – you need dozens rather than just 6.
Thanks a lot for all the tips on the topic. I really appreciate it. I am going to try to keep cold calling for next few months. I just wish I knew this website a year ago:)
Hi, first time to leave a comment. Love your articles, very well written and practical.
Question:
I went to a top 3 Canadian university with a 3.2 GPA. I did math and economics. Graduated May this year. Trying to get an analyst/research analyst assistant position. Only had a sales intern, national IB competition, CFA level 1. Still tackling on networking. Really considering taking a 5k training+intern program for 6 weeks starting in early Jan. 2011. The intern will be with boutique firms.
Would you think the program is almost the best bet for me right now?
Thanks!!
Yes but only if you’ve exhausted hundreds of leads networking and haven’t gotten anywhere yet. http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/buy-your-way-into-investment-banking/
Brian,
He talks about following-up 2 days after submitting his resume to make sure it was received, answer any questions, try to strengthen his bond, etc.
I was wondering what your advice is for the substance of content when staying in touch beyond this initial follow-up. Thanks.
Just keep it very brief and literally ask if they received the resume, if they have any updates, and so on – for info interviews you can ask more about the person’s background or personal updates but with cold-calling it is more random since you lack that connection.
Thanks a lot for all the tips on this website. I am a non-target student with a 3.6 GPA, 4.0 Major GPA. I made about 15 cold calls to boutiques firms, and cold e-mailed another 35 or so. I never got a chance to talk to a MD, the person who picks up the phone always tells me that he/she is busy. Only 2 MDs replied my cold e-mails and told me they are current hiring. I am current a senior and am going to graduate in May. I had Wealth Management internship at UBS previously. I also had a couple accounting internships. I am really discouraged since I never got a chance to talk to a MD.
I have a few questions:
At this point, between cold emails and cold calls, which one is a better option(you mentioned somewhere cold calls are better at this stage. However, Wallstreetoasis said, in general, cold emails are more effective)?
Is there a way that’s going to improve my chance to actually speak with a MD rather than a receptionist?
Thank you very much.
If you look at some of the other interviews under Recruiting you will get a sense for what else you could do to get around gatekeepers. Calling is almost always better, most people get hundreds of emails a day and ignore most of them. In-person > calling > email.
One more question.
Since I am so late in the game, should I just say to the MD that I want you to obtain an investment banking analyst position at your firm? Or should I say something like I was wondering if I can meet you in person to obtain additional infomoration about your company, etc.?
I would just ask directly since it’s late
Thanks for all the tips. I was wondering as a rising senior with no finance background, if i cold called banks beginning of school year for a fulltime position, would that ruin my chances searching a summer one if I’m unable to get full-time? thanks for your time.
Not necessarily but you should probably not even apply for full-time positions without having had a finance internship of some kind first.
Hey,
I currently go to Binghamton University, and I was wondering how hard it would be for me to break into one of these IB firms coming from this college. I have internship expiernece dealing with business, however, nothing really directly related to IB.Any Info would help thanks!
Hard because no banks recruit there – move to a better school or network like mad like this person did
Hello, I emailed an alumni that I spoke before about referrals. I emailed him about 1.5 week ago, but have yet to hear a response. How should I phrase my email asking him again about the referrals without annoying him? Thanks and have a good day.
I would just call him and ask quickly, if he ignored the first email he will probably ignore this one.
Hi,
Just wondering, how did you explain your interest in finance with no finance background?
I believe he had done a lot of self-study / research etc.
Hi M&I,
I’m currently a rising sophomore at a non-target school with a 3.4 GPA (confident I can raise it to above a 3.5 by the end of the school year).
Should I even bother trying to land an investment banking internship at a regional boutique with no prior internship experience and minimal finance knowledge (will have taken one finance course by the end of sophomore year) or should I just try to get a finance related internship with meaningful experience the summer of my sophomore year?
Which will help me better secure a SA position at BB during the summer of my junior year? (with the help of excessive networking of course)
Thank You.
Try for a school-year internship and for something over the summer and those will both help.
Okay, will do. Thank you for replying! I appreciate it. Amazing site. Keep it up.
Hi, im at a less prestigious university and am aiming to work within the financial sector. I am studying an Economics and Finance degree which includes a one year placement. I am also considering doing a masters after. What recommendations/advice can you offer me to better my chances of getting a respectable job in the financial sector? Also, you mention about cold calling above, what exactly is the reason for this?
Many thanks,
Adam
Network as much as you can. Read up about the industry. Know why you want to break into banking. Know the language – act like you already are a banker and know your stuff
Because you can develop your own network and meet people when you cold call. Or else it would be hard to break in from a state school
Im a undergrad studying finance at small college in Staten Island , New York . Do you think I would be considered for any unpaid internships in the city or should I start local ?
It depends on what your goals are. I’d try out NYC
and is it normal to feel intimidated by the large enviroment of these financial institutions ?
Maybe depending on your background. You’ll get used to it
Hello,
Great article, I found it very interesting and motivational! I go to a large public University (non target) and am currently a sophomore. I recently switched my major from Pre-Med to Economics and Business (Finance). I have a 3.65 after organic chemistry took its toll and have many medicinal EC’s (medical research, volunteering, shadowing) but no Business EC’s except for an internship with a small yet well known Real Estate Investment firm.
I just secured an internship with Morgan Stanley for this summer in one of their Financial Advising Firms. My main goal is to break into Investment banking. Would a Financial advising internship or Real Estate Investment internship hold any weight or benefit as I enter recruiting next fall for an Investment banking internship (Maybe even within Morgan Stanley)? Also I do not live in Silicon Vally or anywhere near Wall Street. I live near Portland, Oregon to be exact. How would you recommend finding local investment banks as I have had profound difficulty doing so?
Thank you so much.
Yes.
I’d recommend moving to NY if you want to be in IB.
Excellent article.
I’ve got a totally different background (Teaching) and future career goals (Biz Development for Oil&Gas), but nonetheless there’s a ton of useful advice for anyone going the non-traditional route.
I might just subscribe if you keep putting out gems like this.
Would UVA be considered a target school?
Somewhat
I am currently in high school. I wish to get into investment banking. Is there anything I can do starting now? I will be attending a private university and majoring in finance. What years should I start getting internships etc. My last question is it possible to start out as an analyst at a boutique and transfer to a larger bank or even get a job from a large bank coming from a decent private school? (university of San Diego)? Thank you and look forward to responses.
Best to intern in your sophomore/junior year. Unless your university is a target, I don’t think it will make a big difference.
I know you are against online applications for Bulge Bracket banks, but what about at smaller boutiques. If a regional bank with 50 or so employees has an online application on their website would you recommend submitting my application through that or should I still cold call and ask about internships?
I’d still call to increase your chances
Hi, I am doing MBA from a school ranked between 30 and 40. Currently I am doing internship in Finance after completing my 1st year of MBA. However, I have no prior background in Finnace. I want to get into IB after MBA. Please advise how to go about it.
Network a lot. Join an investment club. Know your pitch – why IB, why you (What are your strengths and weaknesses?)
Hi, these case studies often show how a non-target student can get the offer if he/she is determined enough. My question is, how much do ivy league students have to go out of their ways to network?
Probably not as much as students from non targets because most banks recruit at Ivy Leagues. Quite a lot of Ivy League alumns work in finance and they tend to recruit people from their alma mater
i graduated in my 2012 from SUNY school. I only had experience with the marketing department. but i know there are some alumni are working in the IB or wealth management field were graduated from my school. but since i am already graduated, what will be the better way for me.
Contact the alumni anyway and start speaking with them… worth a shot even if you’ve already graduated.
Would you recommend the same strategy for full time IB positions for someone currently working less than a year out of undergrad in FP&A?
Since you haven’t had experience or network in banking (I presume), yes I’d recommend a similar strategy. Since you’ve been working less than one year, you’ll still be considered relatively fresh.
This article was extremely informative and I’m falling in love with this website! As someone who’s also looking into investment banking, I was wondering if I could get some thoughts on my situation. My sophomore/junior summer in did an internship in China working with M&A at a big name firm. This summer, I wanted to stay in the US, but I ended up taking a commercial banking internship (again, a big name firm). Do you think it’d be possible to move from commercial to IB with some good internal networking? What can I do to strengthen my candidacy? Thanks!
It is possible though it would be best if you could demonstrate your knowledge of IB, be it through your clubs at school or any case studies/classes you have taken that is related to IB. Networking would also help.
Coming from University of Maryland(Not sure if non target or semi target?), would banks look poorly on around a 3.0 GPA even in engineering?, or will they realize the difficulty and not brush me off the way they probably would with an easier major? I am trying to decide whether or not to start cold emailing or wait until my GPA is better before trying to make connections/apply for internships. I am aiming only for boutiques.
I think it always helps to start networking sooner rather than later so I’d suggest you to start doing so now. In terms of your GPA, its best if you can increase it to a 3.5, which is most banks’ official cut-off. Regardless of your major, 3.5 is generally the “norm.”
I am in a five year Master in Accountancy at a top 10 business school at a state university. I only have a 3.3 GPA, but I have internship experience at a Big 4 accounting firm (audit) and a Fortune 50 company doing internal cost allocation. What are my chances at getting a banking internship off that? And in general, does non-banking experience at big companies make up for a low GPA for banking internships?
You can increase your chances by (1) going back to a target MBA (2) look for Accounting roles in banks versus front office roles; right now you’ll be competing with many candidates who have had banking experience and you’ll have to find a way to differentiate yourself. No, but if you have strong GMAT scores, this may make up for your low GPA.
I was recently accepted to UVA (non McIntire), NYU (non Stern), Emory (non Goizueta), Vanderbilt and Boston College (non CSOM). I was wondering which school would give me the best opportunity to break into IBD in NYC. If it matters, I do have relevant banking experience with internships at boutique firms. In terms of costs, UVA and Vanderbilt gave me significant scholarships while at NYU, Emory and BC I would have to pay nearly full tuition. Thanks!
I’d say NYU may be the best bet given its location and network. UVA isn’t a bad choice either, but I wouldn’t say its a target school.