How to Spin and BS Your Way to Success in Investment Banking
“It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
Not sure why you want to do investment banking?
Don’t know what you did in your last job besides watching YouTube?
Haven’t the faintest clue what your “story” is?
Then you need to learn how to spin.
Lying is bad.
But spinning – making yourself seem more impressive than you actually are – is essential.
Just think: it even got a President elected. Time to learn his tactics.
Why Do You Need to Spin?
Because it’s not always in your best interest to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
A job interview is not a trip to the court room. You’re there to sell yourself – not to tell the jury the whole truth.
You need to spin not only for resumes and interviews, but also when you’re networking, and even for business school admissions.
And once you start working, you need to spin in order to play the office politics game correctly and avoid the pink slip.
The Ground Rules
You can’t lie about easily verifiable facts.
You can’t make up work experience, fabricate your GPA or SAT score, claim that you know how to say “Goldman Sachs” in Mandarin when you don’t, or make up that degree that you never quite finished.
It will come back to haunt you even if you get away with it temporarily – banks conduct background checks just before you start working.
There are a couple items – like job titles – that fall somewhere in the middle. In a lot of cases you don’t have an “official” title, so “Summer Intern” vs. “Summer Analyst” doesn’t matter much.
It’s hard to spin your answers to technical questions – so if you have no idea, it’s better to admit it upfront.
So you have to exercise some judgment – be careful about anything that is easily verifiable or anything that the other person knows a lot about.
Finally, avoid generic “spin” answers – like saying you “Work too hard” as one of your “weaknesses.”
What Should You Spin?
You can spin your way to success in a number of areas: networking, resumes, interviews, and on-the-job.
Here’s how to do it:
Omission of Facts
Didn’t get a return offer from your summer internship?
No one needs to know until you get asked specifically about it – and when you do get asked about it, just Blame a 3rd Party (see below).
There are some facts you can’t omit: “forgetting” your GPA raises red flags, as does months or years of unaccounted time on your resume.
But you need to omit some facts because:
- Sometimes if you say too much you come across as negative, which is a big no-no in interviews and once you’re working.
- If something does not help you, there’s no reason to say it. Remember, you’re there to “sell” yourself.
Hedged Exaggeration
This is “hedged exaggeration” rather than “exaggeration” because you need to be careful about how and what you exaggerate.
Write that you “Negotiated $50MM higher purchase price for client” on your resume and you’ll get called out very quickly – but write that you “Supported senior bankers in negotiating $50MM higher purchase price by revising valuation” and now you have an exaggeration rather than a lie.
Re-Adjusting the Focus
Studied abroad in Paris for a year, but spent 360 of those days drinking and 5 days studying?
Did an “investment banking” internship but spent 90% of your time fetching coffee?
No one needs to know the whole truth.
Focus on the 5 days, or 10% of your time, where you actually did something worth talking about.
Blaming a 3rd Party
Didn’t get an offer? Had an unusually low GPA your first year in school?
That’s ok – it wasn’t your fault. It was because you didn’t fit in with your group’s culture – or because you had some family/personal issues but then learned how to focus and greatly improved your GPA in later years.
You also need to turn the negative into the positive with this kind of spin. Rather than focusing on how much you didn’t like your internship group, talk about how you like the one you’re interviewing with right now a lot more.
Pure Confidence
What you say often matters less than how you say it.
Try it yourself: make up an absurd story about your background and introduce yourself to strangers, keeping a straight face and showing no hesitation when you tell them your story. I do this all the time.
They may be skeptical – but they won’t call you out if you show no hesitation.
Put yourself in uncomfortable situations, and the more you do it, the more confidence you’ll develop.
How Do You Spin?
Ok, now let’s take a look at some examples of how to spin your way to success using these strategies.
Omission of Facts
Networking Situation: You’re explaining to an alumnus why you’re interested in investment banking, but you only got interested recently and don’t have a long history to point to.
Solution: Don’t mention this “fact.” Instead, talk about how you’ve known a lot of friends in the field and how you were always interested, but became even MORE interested when… [Insert recent event here].
On-the-Job Situation: You finish your work early and need to send out materials to your team, which they need by tomorrow morning. But you’re afraid to send the email too early or they might give you more work.
Solution: Omit the fact that you finished early. Either log in remotely at midnight or go out and do something else, and then come back to the office and send everything late at night.
Interview Situation: You get asked about the “company” you started last year. It didn’t go anywhere and you decided to shut it down because you lost interest – but you don’t want to seem like a failure in interviews.
Solution: Don’t mention how you lost interest – and never give revenue/profit figures. Just say that you learned a lot from doing it and had some success (building a product / getting publicity / customers) but decided to pursue other opportunities instead – which you never would have found out about had you not started the first company.
Hedged Exaggeration
Resume Situation: You don’t have any “results” for your most recent internship, and you’re worried that it will seem like you’ve done nothing at all.
Solution: Borrow other peoples’ “results.” You may not have directly impacted business, but you “supported” or “assisted” the senior guys who brought in additional assets under management, or that new M&A deal, right?
On-the-Job Situation: Your staffer asks you if you have any “bandwidth” to help out with some menial administrative tasks, and you don’t have anything urgent to do… but you still don’t want to do it.
Solution: Say that you could help but you need to finish a client-related task for your SVP. He doesn’t “need it” by tomorrow but he sure would “like to see it” by tomorrow.
Re-Adjusting the Focus
Interview Situation: You get asked to talk about your investment banking internship, but all you did was create company profiles for a potential client and a lot of administrative work. But you don’t want to sound like you did nothing.
Solution: Say that you “Helped out with industry research, and worked on a potential buy-side M&A deal.” Position what you did as a potential deal that never came together rather than admitting it was grunt work.
Networking Situation: You’re meeting with an alum and you’re talking about your experience studying abroad in Japan. He asks about your language skills, but you spent all your time there at all-you-can-drink bars hitting on the waitresses.
Solution: Make up a joke to get around having to answer the question directly: “Language study? I was too busy studying sake. Oh, and I actually had a lot of tough classes that semester so I think I’ll stick to English for now…”
Resume Situation: You have a 3.3 overall GPA, but a 3.7 GPA in your Finance major – but you can’t round the 3.3 to a 3.5.
Solution: List your Finance GPA first and make it bold – then include a semi-colon and feature your overall GPA less prominently.
Blaming a 3rd Party
Interview Situation: Your group gave offers to everyone except for you because you came into work late every day and did nothing. You’re interviewing for another banking job right now and you can’t admit this.
Solution: Say that you didn’t fit in with your group’s culture. But everyone in this group seems much better.
Networking Situation: You’re speaking with an alum and he asks why you haven’t taken any finance classes before this last semester if you’re actually interested in the field. The “whole truth” is that you only became interested recently.
Solution: Say it was always on your mind, but that your major had some tough requirements. Turn it into a joke (works better if the alum also had the same major) and say that you could only pull yourself out of the library / out of the lab recently.
What Next?
Get out there and practice.
We all have skeletons in our closets – even if you haven’t gone Patrick Bateman on anyone, there are questions you’d rather not answer.
Figure out what your top 5-10 most “awkward” questions are in interviews or networking, and then think about which of these strategies you can use to spin your answers.
And feel free to use more than 1 per answer.
Pitch curveballs – not the plain fastball.
Break Into Investment Banking
Free Access to Exclusive Content for Members Only!
Sign up for The Banker Blueprint today and enjoy:
- Free Report: 37-page guide with the action plan you need to break into investment banking - how to tell your story, network, craft a winning resume, and dominate your interviews.
- Exclusive emailed bonus material.
- Free Banker Blueprint newsletter with more in-depth advice.
- Unlimited access to all articles, videos, and advice - and free updates whenever new content is added to the site.
I adhere to a policy of “technical truth”. Only say what is technically true, and you will never be guilty of lying.
Well, you’re no fun…
LOL…
my technical truth is just “spin” taken to new heights!
You mentioned that if one had a sub-par gpa in their first year they can say they had a personal issue they were dealing with. Will they want to know in detail what the situation was?
If you say a “family situation” or “family emergency” and mention something about a close family member they will not ask… I would be really surprised if anyone dug in further after that, it goes against common sense.
I include a bold finance gpa on my resume..But my overall gpa is really low(3.0). Would you suggest removing the cul gpa and adding a “gpa since junior year” instead?…which is higher than the overall gpa.
You need to show overall GPA on there somewhere, even if it’s low – if you don’t list it, they’ll assume it’s a 2.0
Hey, great article! What happens if you majored in both finance and poly sci. If you have a 3.9 in poly, can you list “Major GPA 3.9″ while stating that you only majored in finance above. Like –
BS in Finance
Major GPA 3.9
Eh I would not do that, you need to list overall GPA somewhere… and specify which of your major GPAs it was.
Great article!
But I must ask…… WHY all the Patrick Bateman allusions???
Because he’s a true banker!
Awesome article once again.. I can really see some of the practical real life issues handled in here. Kudos!
Regarding the FAQ section referring to GPA rounding.. It says you can round up to “0.9″. I assume you mean 0.09, like 3.41->3.5? Not trying to be a stickler and I would hope no one applying for these jobs is rounding 3.1s to 4.0s (although, I’m pretty sure it has happened at some point for whatever reason). I just feel in the interest of GPA info it’s an important note because it seems junior bankers are essentially obsessed with GPAs and use your site as their main reference. Its common sense, but worth pointing out I think.
Good point, I just fixed that and updated the FAQ page. And yes, I meant 0.09.
Common sense is always recommended…
How hard is it to get into a HF’s like Citadel from asset management firms like Blackrock as opposed to GS/MS? What about large cap PE firms? Is it a huge disadvantage to be from asset mgmt?
Also, as far as asset management is concerned, what are the firms that have GS/MS like exit opportunities into PE or HF’s?
Thanks a lot.
I honestly don’t know enough about asset management to say – but I would assume that the largest firms probably give you the most options. Maybe look at this list:
http://www.pionline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071001/CHART/70927004/-1/DataPresentationStore
It’s quite tough from asset management – not very common. PE is similarly difficult – it’s just not common and so recruiters don’t focus on finding asset management people for PE/HF.
Thanks for your response. So would you say that it woud be relatively easier to get into large cap PE or HF from a Bain Consulting as opposed to a Blackrock or GS asset management?
Honestly it’s really tough from either of those backgrounds. A bulge bracket bank is your best bet. Bain probably makes it easier to get into smaller PE firms though.
Great article. People underestimate just how much you can get away with as long as you can talk the talk. Perception is reality and banking isn’t brain surgery: if you can talk eloquently about doing something you probably can do it.
My biggest whooper was 6 months unemployment, I claimed I took time out and volunteered at an organic farm working as a shepherd, then tied minding sheep into project management methodology. I actually visited my uncle’s farm for a week.
Yup, it’s all about the spin. If I ever went back to the corporate world, I would have a GREAT story about everything I’ve done since I left banking… the sheep angle is quite creative haha
bachelor of finance.. bachelor of commerce.. is there much difference?
You have to be careful with degree titles – I would list the official one.
If I worked at a no-name firm, will they bother to call the company and actually ask what I did? I honestly might have spent a combined three days worth of time doing something useful during my two months there, and my bullet points all relate to these three days. Also, if I know for a fact that another intern did something significant, should I say I “helped” or “completed” the task too. I mean, the only way I can get caught is if they call the firm and speak directly to my boss. I’m not lying about my title, just fabricating a little about what I did.
How well does your boss know what either of you do? If he’s not too in the loop about who does what, you’re fine as it clearly falls within the realms of the “technical truth” as described above.
Usually they just call to verify dates so I would not worry about this. For background checks they may ask you to give references, so then you obviously don’t want to list your boss. But otherwise it’s hard to say what you really did as long as you don’t make any ridiculous claims.
Well, I go to a community college-yes, I know. The thing is I plan on transfering next year. However, I’ve recently learned my school which is in Manhattan’s Financial District has these seminar/meeting/conference things for business majors for Summer Internships where you get to meet and network with people from different firms like Ernst&Young, JPMorgan, etc. I dont have a particularly stellar high school record(it sucks) basically no EC’s and you have to be atleast a sophomore, and I am a freshman. I guess the point is I really want to transfer to a better school but I know any school I transfer to won’t have these same opportunities. What do you think I should do?
Go to those seminars now and next year, and then transfer to a better school.
Great piece. I’ve been trying to break into banking since before I graduated college in 2007. My grades are sub par (2.76 from a big ten), yet, I have had meaningful internships in Fortune 500 companies since my summer before college (5 total). I even worked in the US Senate as an intern for the now President in Summer 2007. I also have a Pilot’s license for shits and giggles. I have tried all types of ways of breaking into banking, obviously non of which have thus far been fruitful. My newest scheme (as I have resorted to calling my methods) echoes the gentleman’s story about providing samples of work to potential employers. I saw that a particular mid market was hiring for an M&A analyst yesterday, so I have been up all night spreading comps and building a DCF model, proformas, etc. for a particular company, that I am going to send to the MD of the group just to get in front of him. That’s how hungry I am. Is this overkill? Have I completely lost my mind at this point?
That could actually work, but it depends greatly on the person you’re contacting.
When you say you’ve tried “all types of ways of breaking into banking” what exactly are you referring to? Have you called 500 alumni and cold-called 100 local banks? That is usually the most direct method, but keep in mind that once you’ve graduated and had 2-3 years of experience it gets very, very, very difficult to start as an Analyst.
I have indeed cold called banks and alum. 2 or 3 landed me an interview where they schmoozed me up, then never called. In one instance, I even wrote letters and mailed them to top execs at BBs and got a response (a “No”, but a response, nonetheless). Awhile back, I actually got an “informational” interview with “human capital” at GS, but it turned out to be a contact’s friend making good on a promise, as the rep made a point to suggest I look elsewhere for employment. These have all just been terrific trips to the tity bar, so to speak, that have resulted in nothing. I will continue my efforts on the cold calling front, but, I feel as if I need to add something a bit more unconventional to my approach to get me in front of more people. Yet, are my efforts becoming exponentially futile at a quicker rate than I think? Has the window shut with my fingers still in it?
It’s really hard to say without knowing your approach and what firms / alum you have contacted in the past. It sounds like you have focused on larger banks, which is almost always a bad idea.
If you’re already several years out of school, you need to focus 100% on non-traditional / smaller banks and anything that caters to your background… I would not give up cold-calling, make sure you read the case studies on this site on how to do it properly.
The most successful readers cold-called dozens of banks repeatedly, every single week, until they got responses.
Thanks so much for your help and I will keep trying that.
I worked at a boutique bank this past summer between my sophomore and junior year. Did some work related to comparable company/precedent transaction analysis, alongside some random industry research stuff. Some of this work was for live deals, but none of the deals I worked on over the summer have closed. How would I approach this on my resume? “Worked on a potential acquisition deal of XYZ company, did tasks A, B, and C?”
Doesn’t matter whether they have closed – just say you worked on “Pending Deals” and that you left before anything happened, so you’re not sure on the status.
Also, I didn’t build any models, and only went as far as updating value in existing models. I’m not planning say anything about “building models” on my resume, but I obviously plan to mention that I did valuation work. I had two questions about this:
1) Will the interviewer still feel inclined to ask modeling-related questions?
2) Will the lack of modeling experience make it seem like I didn’t do much over the summer?
As I mentioned this was a sophomore summer experience, so I think that lowers the chance of being grilled in upcoming junior SA interviews.
You may still get questions on what you did – just say that you helped them update models but didn’t create anything yourself. That sounds a lot better than saying you did no real work. And yes, the interviewer will still ask you technical questions on what you did – there’s no way around that if you had a summer internship.
M&I, can you write more about office politics. I’ve visited many banking related sites, and none seem to speak as authoritatively as you in dealings with human-to-human issues in banking. Would really like to see your take on how to joust well in banking culture, for say, a senior Analyst (3rd year), who is trying to make it to Associate.
Thanks and keep up the great work on this site.
Cheers,
Ok, will see what we can do
A position of “Finance analyst & support”, can I spin that into a “Financial Analyst”?
Yes
Say your completing a summer internship at a boutique investment bank… techically im a ‘summer intern’ but can I type ‘Summer Analyst’? Or is ‘Summer Financial Analyst’ (or something else) better?
Also – I’m not doing ANY Corporate Finance related work. No comps, valuations etc – even though I ask for them daily. I just do ad-hoc printing jobs etc. What do I write on my CV??? :(
Summer Analyst is fine – just frame what you did as research on your CV and don’t go into the details if it doesn’t sound impressive
You mention not showing profit/revenue figures for a company you founded, are you suggesting that you shouldn’t make up fake ones or that in general you should avoid that type of information on a resume. The business I started has been quite successful in terms of revenue and profit.
Should I not include this information on my resume? The only thing impressive about my business is the low initial investment and high returns.
If your company has done well and you list the figures, banks will think “Ok, this guy is making a ton of money and owns his own company, why would he ever want to leave and come do grunt work for us?” If you actually want to get into banking I would downplay it.
At my school a double-concetration in Fin and MIS is called “Info. Mgt for Fin.” which sounds like almost pure Info. Mgt. Can I write “Majors: Finance, Information Management” or “Finance, MIS” or “Finance and MIS” on my resume? (The program involves 4 Fin and 4 MIS classes, while separately it is 5 Fin for Fin concentration and 5 MIS classes for MIS concentration)
Also, if after graduation, I stayed with the company I interned with, but as an intern (full time), can I remove Intern from my title, or is that excessive? (been there full time for 1.5+ yrs now, graduated Dec 09)
Thanks, and great site!
“Majors: Finance, Information Management” is fine. You can remove intern from your title if you’re working full-time.
If I had a pwm summer intership at a BB,
regardless of what I actually did, what would be the “best” (in the eyes of an IB bank) tasks to name there?
See what this reader did:
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/non-target-bulge-bracket-investment-banking-offers/
Is it acceptable to spin yourself as a ‘team leader’ in a competition when it wasn’t your designated title?
In hindsight I probably did more ‘leading’ that the other members, but another member had the title (mostly a liaison role).
If another member had the title I would not list it on your resume like that, you can talk about it in interviews though
Sorry, one addition to the above comment;
could you be totally honest about your title, but then say that you ‘Led a team of four…..’ in the description?
Yes.
How do you spin the fact that you spread comps during your internship? Can I say “perform comparable analysis…”? I’m thinking of doing one for myself so I can back it up if they ask, but not so sure since it obviously isn’t what I was assigned to do formally.
Say you did valuation analysis and talk about whether the comps pointed to an overvalued / undervalued company and so on
Thanks for the reply. The thing is I interned in ER, not banking and what I did was simply using the old excel model and collected some data such as P/E, EV/EBITDA of similar companies on the coverage list and played around with it, not getting anywhere. I did this just for myself in my free time. I was thinking of putting something like “performed comparable analysis for companies using EV/EBITDA, P/E ratios etc”, so interviewers don’t think that I build trading comps to value a company and call me out (but still make it look relevant to banking). Do you think I should put it that way? Do comparable analysis for companies and comparable companies analysis (trading comps) sound like two different things to you? :D
I think that’s fine to list, doesn’t make much of a difference