Ah, yes, so after deep and thoughtful consideration you’ve decided you want to spend the next few years of your life as an investment banker. Although in some countries I might be legally obligated to stop you, I won’t. In fact I’ll show you how, in three simple steps:
- Get the attention of recruiters and get your foot in the door.
- Make an investment banking resume that stands out and get an interview.
- Nail your superday interviews and land the offer.
Your Foot In The Door
“I opened the doors for you… showed you how the system works… the value of information… how to *get it*! Fulham oil, Brant resources, geodynamics and this is how you pay me back you COCKROACH!”
-Gordon Gekko, “Wall Street” (1987)
If only everyone applying for finance jobs had Gordon Gekko to open the doors for them. But most of us don’t, which is why we need a strategy for getting a foot in the door ourselves.
The strategy you use depends greatly on your background. And there are basically three types of relevant backgrounds:
- You are still in college and are just starting your senior year. Or you’re even younger.
- You have been out of college working for over a year but have not yet entered business school and have no plans to do so in the near future.
- You have been out in the real world for several years or more now and going to business school is a real option. Or perhaps you’ve already been.
If you’re not from one of these backgrounds (e.g. you are already a senior and it is past the fall recruiting season), it’s best to put aside dreams of banking for now because it will be very difficult to get in. I’m just being realistic and telling you upfront what most would not.
If you’re still in college, your best bet by far is on-campus recruiting for investment banking internships or full-time positions. Apply to every single position for any type of banking job available and make sure your resume is good enough to get selected (see next section). Have friends in i-banking? Contact all of them and forward your resume. But at this point you’re more likely to get in via recruiting since most of your friends are still in school.
If you’re out of school and want to transition over from another job, you’ll have to depend on recruiters and networking to break in. You should use your school’s alumni network, contact anyone and everyone you know in the finance industry and also talk to headhunters at finance-focused recruiting firms such as Glocap. When talking to all these people, it’s especially important to get your story straight because their #1 question will be why you want to switch in now. Your story is a 3-5 minute pitch on your background from college to now and why you’ve realized your calling in life is investment banking, despite not doing it initially.
If you’ve been out of school for a long time (more than 3 years let’s say), your best bet is going to business school to transition in. The longer you’ve been out the harder it will be to claim that you really wanted to do i-banking all along – if that were really the case, why are you just now trying to switch in? Going to business school lets you position yourself as being the expert in some niche (technology, marketing, publishing, media, etc.) related to your previous life experience and then say you want to move up and learn about “the business” of said niche. While I think this logic is questionable, recruiters eat it up.
What if you don’t match one of these backgrounds? Give up right now and stop dreaming. Just kidding. It’s still possible to become an investment banker but the process will be more roundabout.
Landing The Interview
Once you have a recruiter willing to speak with you or someone on the inside who knows you, you need a solid resume to stand out and actually land an interview.
The investment banking resume serves one purpose: to catch someone’s attention for at least 2 seconds and get them to say “yes” to interviewing you. Don’t get emotionally attached here or spend days trying to improve it, because all the wording changes you make are useless: no one at an investment bank will spend more than 2 seconds on your resume (unless you are a hot girl and attach a picture, I mentioned banks were male dominated and chauvinistic, right?).
When we reviewed resumes of people we would look for 3 things: 1) previous finance experience 2) previous industry experience (we were in an industry group) and 3) something interesting. If you had at least 1 of those we would probably not toss the resume away immediately. When I say “previous finance experience” this is a pretty broad category – something like accounting or consulting would also qualify, and sales might even work as well. Basically we just want to see that you haven’t just been a traveling bard for the past 5 years, because you probably won’t like sitting in a cubicle.
You should spin everything on your resume to make it sound more business-like/finance-like/related to banking. And if you have absolutely no work experience that can be spun into this, I recommend coming up with hobbies related to investing or stocks and then positioning your work experience as the “interesting” or “industry-expertise” part of your package.
How To Bankify Your Resume
“I’ve been getting a lot of tips on how to write it, mostly from my staff. They really seem to be up on this stuff. They tell me I have to use the active voice for the resume. You know, things like “Commanded U.S. Armed Forces,” “Ordered air strikes,” “Served three terms as President.” Everybody embellishes a little.”
-President Bill Clinton, White House Correspondents Dinner, April 29, 2000
And that’s exactly what you should do: embellish a little. You want to shape your resume to emphasize working with financials and numbers and leading vs. following. Here are a few examples of resume makeovers:
Industry Background
-Software Development Intern, Cell Phone Company
Developed cell phone applications for collecting demographic and user/revenue data in a team of 3 and investigated new web technologies. Presented findings to CEO.
This doesn’t exactly scream finance, now does it? In fact, it screams “nerd” to me. Let’s see if we can improve this….
-Technology Consultant, Cell Phone Company
-Recommended use of new web technologies and appropriate budget to CEO.
-Designed applications for analyzing demographic data and optimizing revenue per user for mobile software.
This second one is better for 3 main reasons:
- The title. “Technology Consultant” sounds more related to finance and corporate jobs than “Software Development Intern,” which sounds more like a shorts-and-t-shirt type job. People scan resumes VERY quickly and often only look at the title for each job so it’s important to get this right.
- It sounds like you had a higher-level position than just programming – “design” and “recommended use” imply this. These are also exactly what you’ll be doing in banking – designing presentations and recommending a course of action.
- You dealt with money or financial matters. From this description someone could ask you how you sized up the market or thought about the budgeting process. While not directly related to banking, these are both more relevant than describing the design or implementation of a product.
Research Background
With a research job you need to show that you developed expertise in a particular niche and that this expertise also extends to understanding the economics/financial matters of a particular area. Here’s an actual example from a friend’s resume that I revised:
-Research Assistant, Cleantech Group
-Worked directly with Professor [x] to perform data collection and analysis of cleantech industries, including ethanol, solar cell, module and wafer manufacturers.
Ok, so he learned a lot about… solar cells. I’m not led to think that he would be a great investment banker from this. I gave it the following makeover:
-Research Assistant, Cleantech Strategy Group
-Gathered data on the ethanol industry in the US and analyzed performance of specific ethanol companies and the industry as a whole. Specific characteristics examined include firm management, history, financial performance and value of IP and technology assets.
-Performed data collection on solar cell manufacturing companies and analyzed financial performance and production methodologies.
-Tracked individual companies and determined which to focus research on based on financial metrics and qualitative analysis of fundamentals.
In this example you might argue that I made up stuff that my friend didn’t actually do and greatly embellished the truth. Guess what? With something like this you have to, and it doesn’t really matter.
Bending The Truth: Why It’s Ok
Bending the truth in this situation is acceptable because your interviewers won’t expect you to know the answers to advanced financial questions. At most with this type of entry they might ask you what metrics you looked at, what the typical range was, and to explain a bit about the financial workings of a solar company.
You could research this for an hour and come up with acceptable answers. The other reason why bending the truth is ok is that your interviewers are highly unlikely to know more than you in this situation. Unless you’re applying to a CleanTech group (of which there are very few so far on Wall Street), this is a risk-less gamble. Besides, what I wrote above sounds a lot better than the vague “data collection and analysis.”
If Bill Clinton can serve 3 terms as President, so can you.
Hope For The Best
Once you have created the perfect investment banking resume, you’re ready to submit it to everyone you’ve been talking to and all the recruiters you know. Spread your net WIDE especially if you do not have previous banking experience. These applications are very random and there is no downside to applying to as many places as possible.
One thing I didn’t mention in these resume tips is what to do with previous, actual finance experience. I think this should be pretty obvious, but basically you want to discuss each deal or project you worked on in as much detail as possible and shorten everything else on your resume to make room for this previous experience. Nothing else really matters if you have a previous investment banking internship, for example, so leave it on but abbreviate greatly.
For more on resumes for those who have previous finance experience, see my guide to private equity resumes.
Landing The Offer
“And there is no such thing as a no sale call. A sale is made on every call you make. Either you sell the client some stock or he sells you a reason he can’t. Either way a sale is made, the only question is who is gonna close? You or him? Now be relentless, that’s it, I’m done. “
-Jim Young, “Boiler Room” (2000)
So what do you need to close? I’m not going to give a complete list of questions to expect here because other sites already have plenty of those. What it comes down to is proving you:
- Burn The Midnight Oil
- Don’t Shake The Jello
- Want To Be Gordon Gekko
Can you do these 3, or if not at least pretend you can? If so, you will be able to nail your superday interviews.
Burn The Midnight Oil
“Alright, I’ll do it. But do me one last favor, will you. Can you give me two hours? That’s all I ask man, just two hours to sleep before tomorrow. I suspect it’s going to be a very difficult day.”
-Raoul Duke, “Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas” (1998)
No, you’re not going to get those 2 hours of sleep, and especially not if you ask for them like that. You must convince your interviewers that not only do you not need any sleep at all, but that you would never ask for any either.
More than just claiming you “work really hard” you need very specific stories here. When I was interviewing for these jobs in my senior year of college I discussed my experience working at a big company and how I regularly put in 100 hours a week and lived at the office toward the end of my internship there. We were under a massive time crunch to get projects up and running by the end of the summer, so we had to sacrifice a few things. Sleep, hygiene and social lives. The exact sacrifices you make in banking (ok, you probably shouldn’t mention the hygiene one).
What are some good stories to show how much you worked?
- Startups or starting your own company: what could possibly be more work? Not even banking.
- Taking leadership of a large project that takes several months to complete: carnivals, sports events, international science fairs, mud wrestling matches, it could be anything as long as you can articulate how much you worked and how you always felt like you were dying.
- Working 2-3 jobs at once and having to multi-task repeatedly. This lets you hit the multi-tasking theme and the working a lot theme.
If you don’t have a story I recommend that you make one up or exaggerate sufficiently to come up with one of the above. If the only times you worked really hard were during Finals Week or for a few days at a time, come up with something better.
Often times in banking you’ll be killing yourself for weeks at a time or more so come up with something that’s at least this long in duration. Besides, if you really never have gone for weeks on minimal sleep what makes you think you can do it now?
Don’t Shake The Jello
“To succeed as an analyst…. DON’T SCREW UP!”
-VP to my friend at bulge bracket training this past year
As a junior investment banker, your most important duty will be checking numbers and not making mistakes. You may think this is a waste of time but I’ve seen countless occasions where someone screws something up in front of the client and everyone ends up looking stupid. As with showing your interviewers that you can burn the midnight oil, you need specific stories here to really make an impact and stand out.
It would be ideal if you were an open heart surgeon or astronaut in a previous life. Unfortunately if you’re reading this right now you probably have neither of these experiences.
Assuming that I’m correct and neither of the above applies, the way to show your attention to detail is by emphasizing that whatever you did was used by real, paying customers or read/viewed by a lot of people. Having wide exposure implies that you had to get your stuff right. Which is again exactly what you need in banking.
An example of how to tell this kind of story:
“I ran a web site about getting into college and common questions that students and parents might have, from my sophomore year til now. It started off pretty slowly but after awhile we built up an audience of 1,000 readers a day. As editor, I spent hours checking all the material we had for the tiniest of mistakes and errors before making anything public. There’s nothing that damages your credibility as much as careless mistakes. Parents especially notice this. Early on I published an article with a few glaring mistakes and received a pile of email from readers pointing this out. From then on I made sure to triple-check everything, paste it into Word and print it out and re-check it multiple times and ask friends to look it over before posting anything. With such a wide readership I can’t afford to make mistakes and now I require all my writers to do this prior to me even reviewing their work.”
This is perfect because of the following:
- Admits that you did make a big mistake once but learned from it and are now super-attentive to detail.
- Shows that you are in a position where mistakes cannot afford to be made or your business suffers.
- Adds in a touch of leadership theme near the end by mentioning in passing the others you worked with.
If you have nothing like this, make a list of every single organization you’ve been in and every single project you’ve worked on over the past 3-4 years. Bending the truth is ok; outright lying is not. Pick the one thing you’ve done that is most applicable. Add in some of my description from above as necessary.
If you want to work at top groups (e.g. the former UBS LA) this is critical. If you want those investment banking bonuses, you can’t shake the jello.
Want To Be Gordon Gekko
“I am not a destroyer of companies. I am a liberator of them! The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.”
-Gordon Gekko, “Wall Street” (1987)
Yes, greed is good. Even if you’re not quite Mr. Gekko himself, you should be able to convince me that you’re actually interested in finance. This sounds elementary but you’d be surprised how many people don’t do this. You will be asked about industries, companies and markets you’re interested in. Here’s an example dialogue to show the points you need to emphasize.
Interviewer: “Tell me about an industry or market you’re interested in.”
You: “I really enjoy following the alternative energy industry because it is up-and-coming and no one really knows how things will play out yet. Within the industry, there has been a lot of activity lately in the solar cell manufacturer sector, driven by technological breakthroughs that make solar cells more cost-effective as well as favorable government subsidies in Germany and Japan and major budget commitments by the Chinese government.”
Interviewer: “So were the any alternative energy companies you personally invested in? There’s been a lot of IPO activity lately, right?”
You: “Yes, there have been a lot of IPOs lately… but I think most of them were overvalued and riding on hype alone. After looking at the landscape, I personally invested in [xx solar company] a year ago. I looked at their financial performance compared to the competition and despite growing at 50% year over year, on par with others, and having 10% profit margins, also on par with the industry as a whole, they were trading at a discount to their competitors. Their P/E was only 30x rather than the 40-50X that others had and their EBITDA multiples were 30% lower than their competitors as well. It seemed like a bargain.”
Interviewer: “Interesting… but there must have been a reason why they were valued less highly than the competition.”
You: “I did some research into that… the main reason was that they came in below earnings expectations in the quarter just before I invested, and announced expansion plans for new facilities at the same time. Investors balked and questioned why they were spending more on CapEx and product development when their margins were falling.”
Interviewer: “A valid question. So why did you not see this as a serious weakness?”
You: “I did some research of my own on growth vs. profitability for solar cell manufacturers, and I found a much stronger correlation between annual stock returns and growth compared to returns and profitability. It seemed investors were focusing on short-term results instead of thinking long-term and looking at other companies in the industry. It is a nascent, high-growth industry so you’d expect growth to matter more than cost savings.”
There. Now unlike Gordon Gekko, you’re not using insider information to boost your gains. And you’re probably not making millions a day on your investments.
I’m not saying this is a perfect response, but it does a few things correctly. For one, it shows you’ve put some thought into this stock pick and can explain in simple terms the qualitative and quantitative reasons for investing. Candidates often give weak responses to this sort of question, saying they liked the management team or product or something else. That’s nice but you have to mention something about the financial metrics and how it compares to the competition as well. This is a finance job after all.
One thing to note: don’t mention anything about wanting those high investment banking salaries. Yes, wanting money is good but be sure to frame it correctly and don’t be so direct. Plus, your investment banking analyst salary won’t even be that great on a per-hour basis.
But What About The Finance Questions?
For the finance questions, please consult the M&I interview guide. The level of technical detail you get asked about will depend on your background – someone with finance internships or other experience will get a lot more questions than someone from a liberal arts or engineering background, for example.
If you want to learn financial modeling in-depth, check out video-based training with Breaking Into Wall Street.
Recommended Resources:
- The 200 Investment Banking Interview Questions & Answers You Need to Know
- Learn Financial Modeling – Breaking Into Wall Street
I’m curious, do you recommend saying flat out “I want to make a lot of money” or maybe slightly more subtle, “The lifestyle is quite appealing to me”? I find in some positions (e.g. sales at a corporate gig) they want employees who are “hungry” but frown upon people who come out and say it. I wonder if it’s the same in banking.
To Blue Horseshoe, my take is: Try to project a strong sense of professionalism.
Don’t lead with your golddigger-ness or with your “subtle” line since it’s false and sounds kinda dumb since there is not much “lifestyle” except an unhealthy one. Instead, as the author suggests, lead with your interest in finance. A professional wants to get down to business and serve some clients and build a career. I.e, you want to understand how capitalism works and how companies succeed or fail as codified in the language of finance, a la Mr. Gekko.
Lead with your passion for finance… and then you can throw off something about how you would make more than anyone in your whole entire extended family has ever made in a year. That’s optional. Actually, if you try that, let us know how it goes. It’ll be worth a laugh at least.
I would agree with Proud Ex-Analyst here – senior bankers would definitely find it weird if you said your long-term goal was to be be a humanitarian or volunteer. But you don’t want to say you want to make a lot of money either (even though everyone does and most are in the business for that very reason).
If you show them that you are driven, professional and want to learn and advance quickly, this implies your desire to earn money as well and they ca infer the rest.
Is there any chance you could take a look at my resume and give me some tips?
I found this site through another forum (dealing with monkeys), and I’ve got to say I really like how you present things in a humorous but real manner.
Two questions:
1) I interned for one of the Big 3 automotive companies in the US, and my title was “Special Tools Financial Analyst”. Now, my initial reaction when seeing this was, “Wow, this name is kind of out there.” However, I do know that it sticks out. As someone who is recruiting for I-Banking, would having “Special Tools Financial Analyst” on my resume hurt me in that people will think I’m a tool (like the Technology Consultant you mentioned in this blog), or will it pique a recruiter’s attention because it’s so out there? Should I just stick with “Financial Analyst”?
2) What is the best way to immerse yourself into industries or markets? I joined a Banking organization at my school, and having an interest in some type of industry was one thing they really stressed because it showed one’s passion for finance. I am a Wall Street subscriber and have a variety of other resources under my belt (Vault, WetFeet, Factiva, etc.), but I don’t know where to start. Are there sources other than the one I’ve laid out that you would recommend?
Hi Joe,
Glad you enjoy the site. Here are some responses to your questions:
1) Personally, I would go with “Financial Analyst.” Subconsciously recruiters will identify with that more because that is what ibanking analysts are – financial analysts. While “Special Tools Financial Analyst” definitely stands out, I would go with the standard title.
2) Aside from the sources you mentioned, I would check out related blogs that cover your industry. These can be a great source of information – the only downside is that some industries (e.g., natural resources) are not as widely covered as something like technology where seemingly every other person on the internet has a blog.
A follow up question:
How important is stock knowledge? I really wasn’t until recently (October) that I became interested in pursuing an IBD career. As a matter of fact, it really wasn’t until September that I decided to drop Premed and really focus on Business (Finance, Accounting).
To be honest, I haven’t followed any stocks. I know the general ups and downs of the market, but I would not be able to follow in Gordon Gekko’s footsteps.
Should I start looking at stocks now? Will it be that important considering that I’m doing IBD rather than S&T?
Thanks.
Hi Joe – I don’t think your knowledge of specific stocks is important, but you do need to show an interest in finance to have a good shot at landing a job/internship. People (including myself) often recommend stocks because it is relatively easy to research them and speak intelligently.
That said, if you have some other related interest in finance/business you could speak to, that would be fine. But if not, I might try to learn about 2-3 stocks reasonably well so you could demonstrate some interest in finance in your interviews.
Hi, I have a question that might be a bit out of the norm.
My situatuation: I am currently 33 and worked for 6 years at MCK/BCK/BAIN (Project leader at the end). For 1.5 years I am doing independent consulting now for diverse clients (banks, media…). As an independent I earn roundabout 500 k USD/year in salary/profits working around 180 days a year (9.00 to 18.30)….but stil I am not completely satisfied professionally / businesswise…
Here comes my question: What do you think are my chances to land a job that brings me 1mm+ for example in PE, HF, IBanking? I don´t have direct connections to front office people…so what to do??? Or shall I simply stick to my current situation (good money and lifestyle, but not enough to retire in some years…)
Your insights would be very welcome…
THANKS!
Hi there MyWay,
I think the biggest problem with you getting one of those jobs is that you seem far more independent and entrepreneurial than the typical banker. Even though bankers like to say they’re entrepreneurial, in reality they’re very different fields and typically there’s not much crossover.
While you could potentially get a PE/HF/IBD job that pays $1MM a year, there are a couple problems with this:
1) It will take 5-10 years to reach that level.
2) It’s still only twice as much as you’re currently making.
3) Even though it’s twice as much, you’re going to be working more than twice as much. A lot more.
Sure, at the high end you can earn a lot more than $1MM, but most people do not make it that far and it is very, very difficult to make obscene sums like $50MM per year.
My suggestion would be to find some way to turn your consulting business into a product model rather than selling 100% services. That way you can get a lot more time-leverage, earn more money by expanding into other areas, and even take on some consulting projects if they pay high enough.
Hope this helps!
Hey there,
I will be using your resume review service over the weekend. But before I do that, I am curious to know if you do not have that many contacts in the business, do firms consider people who send their resume’s through the website. Some firms actually give a recruiter email, and other’s have you post it to the website. If its not one of the bulge bracket firms, is it adviseable to call the firm and ask for the name of the recruiter? I know this is not the most effective way, however, if your network of bankers or recruiters is not that big, what other choices do you have. Any feedback is much appreciated.
Hi Akash,
I would not send your resume through the website – firms don’t really look at this. Personally I would go through alumni, or if you don’t have many alumni in the field, just call the firms you’re interested in.
But yeah, in general I would not email a resume unless you’ve already spoken with someone over the phone or in-person.
This is an interesting article. I graduated with a Computer Engineering degree about 3 years ago. Currently, I work as a technology consultant with the sales team to provide solutions for a major auto company. We analyze their current enviornment and processes and then present options to our customer in becoming more efficient or potentially increase their revenues with better products/services.
I’ve been living in Detroit, and am interested in making the transition into full finance/banking, or more quantitative-based jobs.
I am currently waiting for the wife to finish law school in Ann Arbor; she has 2 years left. Any advice on getting a job in this industry now, but with the intention to move away from Michigian to Dallas/Houston?
Thanks
Hi Josh,
Currently it’s very, very difficult for anyone to get hired because of the downturn and economy and all. Your 2 best options are either going to business school and “re-branding” yourself like that, then using recruiting there to get into finance, or going to a smaller bank or hedge fund and using your quantitative background to break in.
Luckily, if you do have to wait 2 years for your wife to finish up law school, the economy should be in much better shape by then or at least starting to recover.
I would use alumni networking to see if you can find leads at firms outside the Michigan area in Dallas/Houston and then focus on smaller banks and hedge funds (will like your background).
Good luck!
Love your blog, one of the best out there….I’m currently a rising senior, considering FT employment at boutique firms and have had experience in ibanking/consulting/accounting….and some modeling experience as well.
My question is…would this be an appropriate answer to Why Investment Banking?
a) The idea of working on a team and eventually being at an MD or VP level and being able to work on deals/mergers that can affect an entire industry interests me
b) Not only is banking a career that interests me, but I also feel that the skill sets that I’ve gained up to this point are aligned with the banking as well (experience in consulting/accounting/ibanking)
Would this fall into the “good answer” category? Or is there a better answer that I could come up with given my experience up to this point …Thanks
Hi Mack,
Thanks, glad you like my site.
I think (b) is fine to state but I would be careful about mentioning (a) – you may want to instead say something more along the lines of, “Wanting to do work that affects the entire economy and feel like what you’re doing really has an impact” vs. working at a normal company, where the impact is often not as readily apparent.
It can be dangerous to say you anticipate being a VP/MD one day because no one in college really has a clue if they’ll make it that far.
This is one of the most helpful articles I’ve ever read on acing a banking interview. I was hoping you could answer a quick question I’ve had.
For most behavioral questions such as Why Banking…What motivates you…Give me 3 strengths… How long would you advise keeping your answers to?
I feel that last semester I may have dragged on my answers for a little bit too long during interviews.
Would you say 1 minute for each answer is enough time? Or should you talk for a little more?
I realize this totally depends on what your “story” is…but as a rule of thumb…how long should your answer be? Is 1 minute too long? Thanks a ton.
Hi Dan,
I would not go on for too long on those answers… 1 minute sounds about right. If you speak non-stop for longer than that they will probably stop paying attention to you no matter how good your story is so I would keep it brief.
Hi, I really enjoy this site! Thank you so much, you are a great help.
I have a quick question, if I am an athlete who plays my sport at a D1 school and am on scholarship and my sports team is a top 5 team in the country does that help my chances or atleast seperate me from the rest? How big of an impact does athletics play in recruting for an M&A summer internship and/or analyst position?
With athletics being part of my life and college career, how does that come into play regarding my GPA? Can the GPA be lower than a student who focuses solely on academics?
Thanks!
Alex: Athletics help somewhat and will help separate you from others, but your GPA should still be above a minimum threshold… if it’s above a 3.0 you’re probably fine but any lower than that and you’ll have some difficulty getting ini.
Hi.
I must say, this site is so informative and helpful, keep up the great work.
I feel as if I have a unique situation. I’m currently a college student, going into my sophmore year this fall at a community college in my area. From there, I plan to attend a regular 4 year university and keep my major in Finance. Now, How the hell do I start even making a resume, When I have no previous work experience. I tutored at a tutorial center, and I plan on opening a tutorial center with my father within 2 months. What can i put on a resume to impress the big guys?
And on another note, I have a disability. I use crutches to walk, but I am very mobile. I can do stairs and all, I just need the crutches for balance. Is the investment banking world very phsysical?I mean, I’m tryng to get a job as a bank teller for now so I can add it to my resume, and a job as a teller isn’t physically intensive.
I just want to know your oppinion, will they take that into consideration, or do they really have the new guys running around all over the place for them?
Any help is appreciated, THANKS!
You need to spin whatever work experience you have into something attractive to banks… I would frame the tutorial experience as something entrepreneurial especially since you’re planning to start your own soon.
Bottom line, though, you’ll need more work experience to have a shot at banking jobs – typically they will want to see 2-3 internships.
Investment banking is not physical but you will have to go to meetings and such – I would note it on my resume and perhaps ask friends at banks what they think you should do.
Hey,
I just graduated from undergrad in May, was looking for jobs in real estate in the fall but now have been looking for full-time IB jobs. I missed the boat on the fall recruiting and the economy isn’t helping my case either.
I have had two internships before, both financial analyst positions with major public auto suppliers. I am currently interning for a middle-market IB & PE group in Detroit, but hope to find a full-time gig in Chicago.
Besides networking with family/friends and their contacts, what is the best way for me to break into the industry? Should I just email my resume around to companies or is that just a waste of time? Are there seminars/conferences I should attend or should I wait until next fall for standardized recruiting?
Thanks.
It’s hard to use standardized recruiting if you’re already out of school. Beyond networking with friends/family, I would also recommend:
1) Alumni networking
2) Cold-calling regional boutiques (works a lot better than emailing your resume around, always lead with a call).
There aren’t too many relevant seminars/conferences so I’d stick to these methods.
Thank you for this site. I really don’t know how I ended up here at your site.
I just graduated with an MBA from a State University, and I have some work experience in Budget (overseas in Africa) and Client Relations here in the US.
Last week I passed my first interview with Goldman Sachs Operations Analyst, and they just called me for the second one…. hopeful the last one.
1st interview was just “fit, leadership and team player” type of questions…
I don’t wanna screw up on the “SuperDay”!!! I am trying to get the “hook” that you advised, I am also working on brain teaser and tech questions, but I think i need more than that….
What do you think are the most frequent questions GS people ask on the superday?
Thanks for your help.
I don’t think the super day questions are too much different from the ones in the first round… the main difference is the intensity tends to be higher and you go through more interviews. Goldman is very big on the “Why Goldman?” type questions since everyone wants to work there, so I would focus on having a very specific and personal reason why you want to.
Thank you.
I will try to follow your advise and I hope to get this job. I will let you know.
First I want to say thank you for this site. The information is valuable and I appreciate the style with which it is written.
I want to get into Sales & Trading. I do not have the typical business background but instead got a master’s degree in Health Admin. I currently work for a non-profit hospital in finance and after a year I am considering Sales. I have talked to professors in my university’s b-school, and of course they all suggest I go back and get an MBA. To me, this is thinking ‘inside the box’ and is advice I would have heard 50yrs ago.
Am I going to have to get an MBA if I want to get into Sales?
I am currently perfecting my communication skills by giving a ton of speeches to high level execs and large audiences. I was also a high performing track and field athlete in college, and I would think that should bode well for sales. I tend to think leadership is leadership, success is success, and sales is sales, regardless of what venue it occurs.
If I do get an MBA I will likely add a JD to it. What options are there in I-Banking with this dual degree?
I think it will be difficult to break into Sales & Trading with absolutely no business or finance experience… it would be one thing if you were still an undergrad but since you’ve been out working for awhile that makes it tougher.
An MBA would certainly be the easiest thing to do, but you may not even be able to get into top programs with only 1 year of experience.
MBA + JD doesn’t really add much in banking… might make you more desirable for positions like restructuring where knowledge of law is required but it’s not super-helpful if you want to do IBD.
If I were you, I would focus on networking and target your efforts at smaller firms – if you can tell a really good story about why you want to do S&T and have the appropriate contacts, you can still get into one of these firms.
This is a great site, very informative. Only complaint is that all those in-text hyperlinks makes me very unproductive at work.
Anyway, I think I have a special situation that deserves a separate post. I will be a sophomore next fall at the University of Pennsylvania, and I am double majoring in finance (Wharton) and biology (College) through a life science management program. Though corporate life sciences and health care management may be an option in the future, I am planning on going into finance immediately after school.
I am currently working at a nonprofit venture capital. However, I must complete a required science internship next summer, most likely at a big pharma company, before a business oriented one during my junior year summer.
My question is, do you think my dual major (and lack of a pertinent internship next summer) will either hurt or help my chances on landing a job (or a junior summer internship) at a bulge bracket? Do you think there is any way that my experience in biology may help me (are there any jobs that could put these skills to use)? Finally, will I have some explaining to do when interviewing?
Hi Ace,
I think the answer is “no” on all 3. Banks really don’t care too much about your major; work experience is far more important. Lack of a sophomore internship will hurt you a bit, but a good junior year one more than makes up for it.
Most relevant tactic for you would be to work in a biotech or healthcare group – you might be able to leverage your background or at least pitch yourself better to those types of groups.
I would focus on your interest in finance and whatever you do junior year when interviewing; your story will be simple – your school required you to do a science internship, but ultimately you’re interested in finance because of [insert reasons here].
Thank you for the answer. One more set of questions.
I just found out my business internship after my junior year must have some relevance to the life sciences. For instance, I would need to to join Goldman Sach’s Investment Banking in the Healthcare Industry.
This would leave me with only a handful of opportunities in the bulge bracket, correct?
How feasible is this to specify when applying for internships? Do you usually apply to specific industries, or do you just apply and they put you in a certain industry? Do you think my program, with its focus on healthcare and the second degree in biology, would give me an advantage?
I was also thinking about applying to some private equity groups, since I do know some students interning at them as a rising senior. Does this throw that chance out the door, or are there specific jobs within PE that could be related to the life sciences? It seems like the job title name just needs to have “healthcare” or “lifesciences” somewhere in it to meet the requirement.
Thank you in advance. I really appreciate your site and you have no idea how helpful you are.
Most banks have healthcare divisions so you could really go anywhere. Additionally there are some PE/VC firms focused on healthcare or life sciences as well. You have an advantage with that background. Application process really depends on the bank, sometimes you go to a specific division, sometimes you’re put into a generalist pool.
Most of the talk about reductions in ibanking jobs has focused on the cut number, not the overall job market (cuts make for good press). When it comes to the overall number of Investment Banking Jobs, however, we are seeing plenty here in the US. We are starting to see the movement overseas as the investment banking game becomes more international and the bulge bracket firms take advantage of off-shoring.
The Job Search Digest crew has been at the niche financial job market game for a long time. We’re pretty fired up about the latest and greatest service, Investment Banking Jobs Digest.
Investment Banking Jobs
And, yes, of course, Mergers and Inquisitions is in the recommended resources section!
David
I go to a big state school in texas and I am starting my sophmore year with a 3.5 gpa and I have a couple a questions 1)do I have a chance getting a i banking analyst job with a middle market firm at least and 2) I have enough credits to graduate early would look better for me to graduate early
1) Yes
2) No, better to get more experience
Loving your blog, it’s so informative and is helping me a lot! Just have one query,
I intend applying for a position in a European bank that allows for city rotation when the application process begins soon. However I don’t have any contacts in this particular bank and was wondering how realistic my chances are of getting an interview if I simply follow the online application process? To have any chance of getting a call back, would you say it is necessary that at least one person within the firm is aware of my existence so to say and that I am submitting an application?
Very low chances of getting a call back unless you know someone or it’s a really small bank – you really need someone inside to fight for you.
Hi,
I recently finished an MBA with previous experience as a financial advisor at a major FI. My MBA was not quantitative in its teachings, but it focused on how to manage projects/products and innovation strategies for start-ups to become less likely to fail. I have contacts that can get me into back/middle office in Asia, with my MBA (2008) and bachelor in business (2004) will it be that difficult to break into sales/trading or should I look for a trading job first in North American where it may be more feasible to find a trading post. Many Thx!
I would definitely look for a front office role in North America first… shouldn’t be -that- hard to get in and you generally want to avoid the back/middle office no matter where it is.
I have a BS in Finance from a university that is considered not top tier. My grades dont really jump off the page either. I was wondering my actual chance of landing that ibanking job or do i even have a chance before an MBA or CFA? What would be the best route? Thanks
CFA = useless. MBA is definitely the best route. If you have poor grades / did not go to a good school will be very difficult to get in otherwise.
Hi,
I am 24 years old and will be graduating this spring with a B.S. in finance. I have a ton of work experience, but the most relevant to I.B. is three years in an accounting position. I have been working full-time during all of my college years. I did live overseas for two years, hence the reason I am 24 years old. Since I have been working full-time I have not been able to focus on studies as much as others might. My GPA is a 2.6, which for most people is horrible, but when you work 40+ hours a week it’s sometimes difficult to attain that 3.0 level. My question is will my GPA hurt me if I explain my situation? Also, I have a family member who is a good acquaintance with a branch manager at Merrill Lynch. What’s the most professional way to approach a position when you have an inside connection? Keep up the great work on the blog. Thanks!
You have no chance unless you get in via a connection so I would leverage that, just say you’re interested, want to know more about banking, enter the field, meet up with him for coffee/informational interview, pass along your resume.
With his situation being similar to my own except a slightly higher gpa (2.8); would getting an MBA or first start out with a masters in finance help at all or do ibanks look at the undergrad gpa that heavily?
MBA is definitely the best option, but a Masters in Finance would also help if you can get a good GPA there.
i’m about to gear up for ibd internship recruiting and, with the market how it is, am worried about bank’s no-offering their summer interns. how bad to numbers get when the economy turns down? and what happens if you land an internship, but don’t get an offer at the end of the summer? do you bang down doors again? or are you essentially shut out of the industry . . . forever?
With things the way they are right now, bulge brackets basically aren’t hiring – so I’d focus all your efforts on smaller firms.
Not the end of the world if you don’t get an offer – again, you’ll likely just have to go smaller… any place of the same size will have obvious questions over why you didn’t get an offer.
Dear Joe,
First and foremost I would like to thank you for this very informative and helpful article. Secondly, I have a question relating to the IB field and my own personal dilemma. Coming out of HS, I had a low GPA, (3.1), due to a focus on sports and landing a scholarship. I ended up landing a scholarship and due to personal issues and injuries transferred 3 times while in college. I ended up having to stop playing due to my injuries and ended up in a lower caliber school with a low GPA once again (2.9 GPA at Cal State LA). However, recently I have become very interested in cracking into the investment banking industry and am currently interning for a discount brokerage for the past few weeks (Scottrade). My questions are:
1. What do you suggest is the best way to give me a chance where I can land an internship/job at a top tier brokerage firm such as a ML, MS, GS, JPM, etc. I am currently unsatisfied with the type of work given at my current job (mainly customer service) and am looking at a job that involves more analysis.
2. I am also curious if landing a job at a discount brokerage firm that provides both advice and service (Charles Schwab, TD Ameritrade, etc.) would better on my resume than Scottrade.
3. If I am unable to land an internship while in college, what steps can I take now to give me the best possible chance in the future.
4. Also, I am of 100% Chinese descent, and earned multiple athletic scholarships to play collegiately in a sport regularly dominated by other races. What, if any, leverage will this give me on my resume or interview process?
I am currently full of energy and ambition and will do what ever necessary to get where I want. Thank you for your time, and I apologize for the amount of questions asked. Any insight provided would be greatly appreciated.
L.T.
1) Don’t even try for the top firms, with a low GPA and coming from a non-target you have no chance. I hate to be harsh, but that’s the truth- the economy is in too poor a state right now, ML doesn’t even exist anymore and everyone is getting fired.
Use alumni networking and networking with friends/acquaintances to target smaller places.
2) No difference.
3) Build a strong set of contacts in the industry.
4) None. Maybe some bonus because of being athletic, but in general they don’t care that much.
Hi,
I find it hard to convince myself that breaking into i-banking without prior relevant financial experience is possible in my case.
Actually I work in the sales dpt. of a large mining company but want to to work in a sales&trading position (specifically, base metals trading would be my first choice). My only assets – I may say – is my heavy academic quantitative background – never used at work though – and my communication/negotiations skills in both spot and long contracts internationally.
Would an MBA from a top school “legitimize” my goal to completely shift careers (I am actually european targeting a US top b-school)? I will be 32 when I graduate (perhaps quite old to enter this field as a novice)…
What strategy would you recommend I follow ?
Thank you very much for your advice
I would definitely go for the MBA, that is your best strategy if you haven’t had previous experience.
Thank you for your prompt reply. I appreciate it.
Thank you,
Its hard for me to accept the harsh reality of what you’ve explained. But what is the chance if I were to get an MBA from a top 10-25 school?
Chances would improve significantly, but make sure you go to a school at which banks actually recruit! Otherwise you aren’t helping yourself at all.
I have just started my junior year at a school that is “good”, but definitely not a target school. While it is possible to land an IB job in NY, it is certainly more difficult.
To the point- this past summer I had a management internship at one of the country’s retail giants. I will be doing everything I can to obtain an IB internship in NY next summer. Do you have any advice on how to bankify a retail internship on my resume? So far I’ve emphasized on analyzing margins, profits, etc.
Thank you very much.
Emphasize specifics and results, and put everything in “Project” format:
-Summary sentence
-Project Experience:
-Project #1
-Project #2
-Project #3
Thank you for your valuable advice.
I have the following question:
I am thinking to apply for Finance entry-level programme. As it was discussed earlier on the website, there should be some preparation regarding the industry and recent market trends. Finance is a broad area. Could you suggest what aspects I have to pay more attention and which examples better to provide (recent regulations, the general problem in the market etc.). The other area of concern is how difficult it is to break into finance dpt with IB in comparison with the others?
I would appreciate your response.
Thanks,
Katrin
I would focus on recent market news and/or any recent deals… the items you mentioned are good to learn more about.
Finance departments are much easier to get into than IBD.
After reading all the Q&As in your blog, I think I am probably among all those posted who has the most difficulties getting in the Banking/Investment industry. But still, I hope you don’t mind giving me your advice.
I am 29, a business English teacher in Hong Kong. My undergraduate major was Journalism but the GPA was not impressive at all (just 2.7!). However, I became strongly interested in the financial market about 2 years ago and I kept reading global financial news. I dream of a career shift to banking/ finance. Now I am planning a graduate degree in finance or economics. I don’t mind you being harsh… just want to know… how can I make my dream come true?
Thanks a ton!
Hannah
I would strongly recommend going to a top business school that has a lot of banks recruiting at it. That is a much better idea than doing a graduate finance degree.
First let me thank you for such an informative website.
I got my master of science degree early this year and have been working at a mid-sized US IB for 3 months, located in Asia. Projects I worked on were primarily cross-border pre-IPO private placement and M&A. My clients are mostly VCs and local PEs. I love the finance industry but as a mid-sized house we don’t have access to those big projects such as IPO or big LBO. Most that we do are around $30m in size. I strongly hope to land a new job at one of the bulge bracket IBs, preferably PE department or Investment Banking department.
I have a network of friends and alumni working in IB industry.
Here are my questions:
1. What do you think is the best way to crack into the bulge bracket? Do you think it a good idea to try the campus recruitment starting in a month in my region? I am still new to this industry anyway. (I got my current job through alumni referral)
2. What is the best way to state my motivation to change job? I know I cannot say better pay or more decent company profile. Can I say I want to serve bigger, more important clients and conduct larger, more complex projects? This is true for me.
3. Working at a mid-size IB means I, as an anlyst, have to bring in new business rather than financial modeling or writing pitchbooks all day. Do I need to emphasize this in interviews?
As a non-native speaker of English my writing might be poor. Thank you for your patience!
1) Alumni networking, networking with contacts.
2) Yes, bigger/more complex is good to say.
3) I would definitely bring this up, but make sure you know something about modeling anyway.
I graduated from a state school with a 3.7 GPA in Political Science and History 2 and a half years ago. I’ve worked as an interpreter for the government since graduation. I originally wanted to go to law school but decided against it. I want to go into banking and finance. Since I have no background I decided to attend college again and get another bachelors degree since it only takes 2 years and not four. I’m getting this one in Finance. It looks like I’ll graduate with a 4.0, although from a lesser known school. Afterwards I was thinking of working or maybe going for my MBA. What would be my best course of action to try to get into the IB field?
Personally I would work for a few years and try to network your way into a smaller place. If that doesn’t work then you can go for an MBA – just make sure it’s at a top 10 school.
Great Blog! Full of useful and honest information.
I would like to know what route you would recommend I take to break into investment banking. Is it still possible??
Here’s my story to date:
I was originally a premed major, but wasn’t really ready for college. So after 3 years of bad grades and skipping classes I left for the Marine Corps. When I returned (1997) I started working full time and decided that Medical School wasn’t my calling and changed my major to Finance. My overall GPA (including my premed classes) was pretty bad (2.7), but I never got a grade lower than a B on any business or finance class. Since I already had a fulltime job before changing majors to finance I have not been working in finance, instead I’ve been working in sales for the last 11 years; first with Carnival Cruise lines and, for the last 8 years, with a floor covering distributor. Oh, and I’m no spring chicken at 34 years old. Looking for honest and realistic advice. Do I still have a chance or should I just consider becoming a financial planner?
I would go to business school ASAP. If you do not get into a top 10 school within the next year or so, your chances will be very low. If you can’t do that, I would just do something else in finance.
Regarding embellishing your resume, I refer to a post on WSO http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ive-been-fired-what-do-i-do
To what extent is it acceptable (on both GPAs and work experiences) and to what extent is it just outright lying?
It really depends on what you mean specifically… I’d need to see an example to tell you what’s “acceptable” and what isn’t.
In general, something like rounding a 3.44 GPA to 3.5 is fine; rounding a 3.1 to 3.5 is not fine. You have to use your judgment there.
Making up a false position title or saying you did front office when it was back office is not fine. Slightly embellishing what you did and making it sound better is fine, as long as you can back it up in an interview.
hello, my name is jerrell grove and i am a freshman in college and i am majoring in finance and minoring in economics. i have always dreamed of being an investment banker for merrill and lynch. i was just wonderin what shoud i do going through college to make sure that i get into the field. i am in the honors program with a high gpa. and i was wonderin if majoring in finance and minoring in economis was a smart choice? i just want to make sure my future career is some what garunteed although i know thats never garunteed. but if you could please give me some advice on what i should do that would be grerat. also where would a good graduate school be good to go to for investment banking?
Biggest help to getting in will be having an internship in the field. BTW, nothing is ever guaranteed in real life. No matter how good you think you are or what you’ve accomplished, there are 0 guarantees – look at how many bankers have been laid off this year. You generally don’t go to grad school to enter banking…
ok so then what should i do after college, get my mba or work then get my mba and then what should i go to grad school for?
Work and then MBA is the best strategy. You shouldn’t go to grad school.
Thanks alot for your all of your advice and insight. I have a question not particularly along the lines of IB, but figured you could help me out. I would like to land a job in sales/trading specifically within a hedgefund. I have no prior experience in trading but did exercise a summer internship at Merrill Lynch which required me to basically to be a numbers guy checking accounts and statements for errors. I am currently a soph at a respectable University and play a Div 1 sport. My question is how do I approach these HF managers or anyone within the firm given the recent stress and turmoil they are in. Also coming from so little financial experience is there room for me to express my strong passion for working for a HF and what is the best way to go about this. Thank you
I wouldn’t do much differently despite the poor market right now. You still use the same basic strategy of expressing your passion for the markets and trading, and perhaps use the poor market as evidence that you are really serious about it – you’re not just “riding the wave” so to speak.
In terms of expressing your passion, I would try speaking about your own interest in the markets, investments you’ve made, and anything else you’ve invested in (business ventures, etc.).
What future do you see for quantitative trading compared to investment banking? My understanding is that in the past few years, the traders have been more profitable than the bankers. Except now “derivatives” is a dirty word. Do you see the financial industry stepping back from quantitative trading to focus on the tried-and-true banking practices? Finance will grow more quantitative no doubt, but the time horizon for this process may not sync with my professional window. For someone who is quantitatively and computationally literate as well as a type A male, do you see more prospects in trading or banking?
I recently graduated with a master’s degree in computer engineering from a target school. I am currently employed by a software startup, and the risk/reward ratio is not suiting my temperament. I also prefer wearing business suits to jeans, so I’ve realized finance is for me.
Trading is definitely easier to get into with that kind of quant background.
I don’t know how great of a future it has given everything that happened as a result of derivatives/mortgages but areas of trading outside those should hold up fine.
If I were you I’d definitely focus on trading.
Thank you for your thoughtful response.
I’m currently applying to Gtown & SAIS (Johns Hopkins) for a masters degree in international relations, focused on economics. I have an undergrad degree in finance from univ of AZ with a 3.6 GPA and have been working in marketing for the past 4 years.
What are my chances of landing a job in finance following a masters at either of those schools? They both tout having graduates go to GS, MS, and other firms but I’m not sure whether these are people with prior finance experience or if it’s possible to transition into finance with such a degree. I’d like to work in the finance world for a few years in emerging markets (hopefully start as an associate equivalent) before moving to the World Bank or IMF.
What are your thoughts? Any tips?
I mean it’s a bit hard to say with what you’ve said… I know Georgetown is a target school for a lot of banks so you have that going in your favor.
Marketing work will neither hurt nor help you much – I think regardless of what the recruiting environment is like, you’ll have to network quite extensively to have a good shot at getting in as well.
Appreciate the insight…thanks
I’m 40 years old and have worked in engineering in the biopharmaceutical industry for the past 18 years. i’m finishing an MBA in May 2009 with emphasis in finance. I’ll probably graduate #1 in my class. Unfortunately, it is not a top school (university of colorado at Boulder).
I had no idea I wanted to go into finance when I started the program, but I have enjoyed my finance classes so much I am now strongly considering a career change (if I had known I would have gone to a better school (I had a 750 GMAT, so I probably good have gotten in somewhere better).
Do you have any advice for my situation? There are a couple of small boutiques in Denver which would be nice for me because I like this area. I would be willing to move for the right opportunity.
I think I can “bankify” some of my experience.
-Paul
I would focus on smaller places and work on networking as much as you can. Honestly it’s going to be extremely difficult just because of your situation, but going small and tapping your alumni/professional network is the way to go.
The good news is that if you can advance quickly enough, it wouldn’t be that odd to have a VP/SVP who’s in his 40’s so you do have that going in your favor.
Thanks for a very informative website, best one i’ve found about IB. I would like to know your oppinion on my current situation. What do you think would be the best option to get in to IB?
My background:
23 years old, no previous work experience because I was a professional soccer player. Currently studying in a polytechnic (university of applied sciences) in Finland.
I think my current options are:
1. graduate in 1 year as bachelor of business administration, find some kind of finance relevant work for 3 years and then go to a top MBA school. –> Get in to IB.
2. Drop out of polytechnic, get in Helsinki school of Economics (best school in Finland) get a BA in Finance in 2.5 years, pray for economy getting better and apply for an analyst position in Bulge Bracket banks.
Either one works, to be honest. I think #2 is probably better assuming that you can get in, you can afford it, and things improve over the next few years.
Thank you for your quick reply.
I’m positive that I can get in and education in Finland is free for citizens.
I agree with past posters that this site has been great. I am about to graduate from a top finance undegrad school after 3 and a half years. I have almost 2 years of back office experience at a top asset management company. However my GPA is only 3.2 and I did not focus on recruitment as much as I should have. With the market conditions being the way they are, what would you recommend. 1) keep trying to land an IB job for this year 2)Look into sales and trading 3) starting studying for the GMATs and go back to get an MBA.
I would recommend spreading your net wider than options 1 or 2 and considering any type of “front office” job available. Don’t go back to business school without significantly more experience first – there’s no point if you do that.
Don’t stay strictly focused on IBD / S&T – consider anything finance-related that is front office.
I am 28. I’ve an IT degree and have been working on the field for the last 6 yrs. It’s been a while since I’ve been contemplating in changing a career. I know for a fact that I am higly interested and would enjoy working in the Financial world. I’ve finally decided to do my MBA. But, my question to you is:
- Considering my background, what are the potential opprotunities like in Investment Banking?
- Eventhough it is obvious that attaining an MBA improves my credentials, to what practical extent is it?
Your advice is most appreciated.
Well, it won’t be AS easy for you to get in as it would be for someone else who has had more business experience but it’s still do-able. I’d say focus on networking from even before you get there, and make absolutely certain you get into a top 10 program, otherwise it’s not worth it.
Thanks a lot for this outstanding resource! I have been reading your articles for a couple of hours now, and I found it extremely helpful and enjoyable. Thanks a lot for the great work!
Currently I am amid my application process for an internship in IB.
I am 22, a B.Sc. graduate of the top university in Ukraine (with a major in International finance), and currently pursuing M.Sc. in Finance at Frankfurt University in Germany. So far I’ve had 2 internships with German niche-strategy consulting companies, and 1 with a (middle-size) Financial advisory firm in Kiev.
a) You mentioned in one of your articles, one should not touch upon High School in one’s resume. I did an exchange year – as an American Councils grantee – in the USA (and graduated from a Ukrainian school). Would it make sense to mention that experience on my resume?
b) I was also a German Government grantee and did 1 year of exchange studies in Germany (within my B.Sc. studies). Should I skip this fact as well, and just briefly state my B.Sc. degree & institution I obtained it from, as well as my M.Sc. degree major/institution?
Do this kind of exchange studies experiences make a difference in the selection process?
c) Do I have a shot at landing an internship with top IBs in the US or UK? Or should I aim at smaller banks for now?
Any comment will be highly appreciated!!!
a. Yes, the exchange is fine to mention. It’s also more common to include secondary school on European CVs.
b. Sure I would include the Germany experience too, it definitely helps.
c. Hard to say without knowing more of your background / seeing exactly what you did, but I would strongly suggest doing both and casting a WIDE net so you apply to both large and small places.
Thanks a lot for the insights!
With regard to a) it is true that in European CV’s (especially in German ones secondary school is included, as are many other things that are “ignored” in the American counterpart.. such as trivial (MS Office) pc proficiency, for instance, etc..
Uh secondary school is ok for European ones but I would still not mention anything trivial such as “Proficient in Word” that’s like saying, “Proficient in breathing.”
Yeah, I made sure to drop all that to fit evertyhing in 1 page
I’m not quite sure though whether I should drop the following:
a. Teaching Business English at a Lang. School in Kiev (4 months as a part-time job)
b. Organization of university conferences / participation in a debate club..
Shall I just all this ’cause it’s definitely not finance-related?
Thanks for your help!
I would not include unless you have extra space
hey, great column with a lot of good advice.
I’m in my first year of school at AEM at cornell university right now (AEM is the accredited business program). My end goal is to land a job on wall street as an investment banker. What double major would you recommend for this?
However, my situation is a little more complicated as I have to major in something within my college (the college of agriculture and life sciences). therefore, the two ones I am thinking about are information sciences and bioengineering. What would you say is the best major I can choose to complement my business major that will help me in landing both internships/jobs and graduate schools.
Thanks so much.
Either one works, it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference if you already have a business major. I would pick whichever one requires less work so you have more time to network / do activities and internships.
thanks for the advice.
I graduated May 08 from a “not even close to target” school. I have a BS in Finance and a GPA that isnt that good. I am the first person in my family to graduate from college and didnt really know what to expect so I pretty much partied my way through. I wasnt informed early enough of all of the things that i should have been doing while in college such as internships, extra studies, etc.. I have a chance to be an actuary and had heard that the first 4-5 test will help you move into IB. I can also be a branch asst at a bank close by. What would you advise? I know I need to do some cold-calling to mid market firms in my area, but is it realistic for me to think that I can still get onto wall st? I have no experience, am stuck at a crossroad, and would appreciate any help you can give me.
Thanks,
-V
You can do it (had a friend in a similar situation) but you need to do a ton of cold-calling and networking, and it will probably take around a year to make the transition. You should focus exclusively on regional boutiques and maybe a few middle-market firms at this point – not even worth it to go after the larger places.
Hi, I want to get into Investment Banking but not sure how. I do not have any realted IB experience. I recently graduated in May 08 with a BS in Finance and Accounting with a GPA of 3.5 /4.0. With the economy going downhill, what are my chances of getting my foot in the door and How can I get my foot in the door? What steps do I need to take or follow to head into the right track? Please help me out, I would greatly appericate it.
Thanks.
Bhargov
You’ll have to do a ton of networking… I would start by making a list of everyone you know in finance and related fields, researching the industry, and reaching out to them to start discussions.
Great blog!!!
Question – I want to break out in IB but my undergrad was in Political Science at the University of Pennsylvania. However, I am torn between pursuing an MBA/concentration in Finance or getting an MS in banking and financial Services Management. Which degree do you think is more valuable?
Thanks!
Well they’re entirely different things… an MBA helps far more but you need 3-5 years experience first. MS in banking won’t help much.
I am in my junior year at a small university in Georgia and majoring in Finance with a concentration in Economics. I graduate in December of 2009 with an Adjusted GPA of 3.59/4.0. I have a passion for Entrepreneurship and would like to either get into VC or IB. I am 30 years old. Was wondering what the best route to get into VC or IB would be. I had thought of getting an M.S after graduation in Financial Engineering and later on trying to get into a top 10. Particularly Harvard, to get an MBA in Finance and Entrepreneurship. What is the best option to get into VC or IB? The only work experience i have is a Business i have been running for 2 years while in college. I need help
Thanks
You need to do a ton of networking, forget about further degrees… with your background you need to develop a network ASAP and stay focused on that. Reach out to alumni, former employees/co-workers/clients and anyone imaginable. An MBA is useless without experience, and the degree title doesn’t matter at all.
I am a BBA (top 20 university, and top 5 undergrad business program) approaching the summer of his sophomore year. I have no finance experience, however, was able to get a once a week internship at a large wealth management firm over the summer. I plan to do the internship while going to summer school and working at a paying non-finance related job. Do you think that this will be a good sell to recruiters for junior internships? Is there anything that you can recommend?
Thank you
It will definitely help – I’d suggest trying to find something that’s a little more intense in terms of hours and such. But aside from that type of internship, the only thing that’s better is a banking/PE one but that is difficult at your age.
Fantastic post as usual, thanks for the insight! I go to University of Texas, which is “technically a target school” and am in the MS of engineering program. I’m eligible (according to careers services and your site) for undergrad analyst roles at IB’s (I think?). Because we’re not quite ivy or virtual ivy’s (stanford, chicago, etc) are they more selective with my school (& Norte Dame, USC, etc.) or do I have an equally as good chance staking up against candidates from ivy’s? I know of people getting picked up for UBS m&a etc, but they are kind of few and far between. Should I shoot more for a boutique instead of bulge?
P.S.: I did the MS in Engineering because my ultimate goal is VC, which is pretty standard background for most, and cause my undergrad wasn’t a target school. I’m already in it so its too late to do something, but is my MS going to hurt me with bulge banks?
Thanks for the input!
They are definitely more selective, so aiming for smaller firms is a good bet. The MS degree itself won’t hurt you, it’s more an issue of the school + not appearing finance-related on paper.
What are some other things I can do to stand out? I’ve had two internships at commercial banks and helped start the investment club here, and a BA in Econ (from a non target school). Should I just really try hard at networking right now? Will making a good impression with some of the recruiters at the fairs do anything?
Have some interesting activities outside school/work, study abroad, start a company or organization, get some really unusual experience like winning a bungee jumping competition.
Networking a lot will help a lot too so don’t forget about that either.
Great, you mentioned in one of your articles that as long as your school is “targeted” by a certain bank, all you have to do is (assuming you have all the other resume boosters) is upload your resume and they call you for a interview, is this correct?
Not anymore – it’s now significantly more difficult and that strategy doesn’t work as well.
I have a question.
Currently I am a student at Glasgow University in Glasgow in Scotland in my 2nd year doing Accountancy and Finance. I was wondering is this degree sufficient enough to get into investment banking as I am interested in doing Investment banking…
Also are the working hours the same in America as it is in Scotland or London???
That’s fine, but keep in mind you’ll need some solid internships too.
Working hours might be a bit less in Scotland/London but it’s still not close to a 9-5 job.
I have a very unique situation. I graduated from a state school (definitely not a target school) with a general social science degree, although some work in economics. My GPA was low so I decided to give school another shot. My school happens to have a great accounting program so I have re-enrolled to take accounting classes for my CPA. I was going to finish a masters there but after officially applying at a couple different places I got into University of Michigan. Although it would be a masters in accounting, the classes are completely shared with MBA classes, and can be tailored to concentrate in finance. I am also sitting for level 2 CFA this june.
My original accounting plan was NYC public accounting in financial services, maybe M&A advisory group, and then eventually break into ibanking (through top MBA if necessary). My question is would I have a shot at ibanking directly out of the Michigan accounting program? And even if not immediately would it help me down the line? It is substantially more expensive. Also, could doing a year of MBA classes, even for a MAcc degree, potentially limit my chances of getting into a top 10 MBA because of repetitiveness?
I think it would be tough to get in directly out of an accounting program… might help a little down the road, but the best option would probably be work experience in a TAS group followed by an MBA. I don’t think the year of MBA classes would limit your chances much if at all.
Thanks for the quick response! One last thing…
So assuming that accounting for a few years then MBA is the plan, do you think it is worth it to fork over 40K to go to a top accounting program (within a top b-school) or should I stick with the state program and save some money? The benefits I can see to the top program are that obtaining a good GPA there will help to offset my bad undergrad GPA for b-school admissions down the line and it could also help me land a job directly in M&A advisory instead of audit. Also, sharing accounting/finance classes with MBA students could be great networking, as well as the alumni networking possibilities. What’s your take?
-Thank you!
No probably not worth it I would just try to save money unless you can afford it…
You have a great site going here. I just have a few questions.
I am currently a 20 yr old sophomore at a small but very good academic college in pennsylvania majoring in finance and minoring in economics. My GPA is 3.7/4.0. I am looking at obtaining my Masters in Finance at Villanova. I have worked at a large bank as a teller for a summer and this summer I have a merchandising internship with the US Golf Association. Will my experience as a teller and my interning with the USGA be attractive to IB recruiters or are they looking for more professional work experience? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
It’s ok but they bias heavily toward more professional-type roles.
I’m about to graduate with a undergrad business degree from a non-target school. I had past intern experiences in a major pension fund and a major European Bank. The latter one was a front office job with a pop trader. The given state really decreased my chance of landing an offer after graduation ( everywhere is freezing headcount).
I’m thinking of getting into a grad school. Should MBA or Master of Finance be more helpful in this case if I want to get into IBanking? What if is trading then?
Thanks a lot.
Do not do an MBA without at least 3 years work experience. If you want to postpone recruiting and try again later, the Master’s degree is your best option. Only issue is if the market doesn’t improve much you may not stand a much better chance of getting in.
I am a senior currently looking for an internship. I will be graduating with a degree in Finance from a non target school in december. My resume has sales experience for the most part as well as a start up experience. I plan on getting a Masters in Financial Engineering after i graduate. My intention is to get into Investment banking. How would a Masters in Financial Engineering help and what type of internship positions should i look for. How many hours would i have to work at these internships. I am currently running a start up. Should i put that aside and focus more on the internship in banking ? Is a masters in financial engineering helpful to me ?
Thanks a lot.
You would still be going for Analyst positions, only an MBA would let you apply for Associate internships. 80-100 hours per week as a summer intern.
The degree would help somewhat, but #1 key will be getting finance experience so I would focus on that and cut back on your other commitments… start small/local, and go from there.
First of all, I just want to say you’ve got a great site going here.
Okay, so I am a freshman in college, technically a sophomore by the number of credits i have. I am majoring in Biology and Business with a concentration in Finance, but I am not at a target school or top school. I currently have a 4.0, am in accounting society, finance society, and students in free enterprise. I keep up with financial markets and trade stocks. I currently do not have any finance work experience, just teaching experience for teaching SAT classes. I graduated #1/608 in high school, do you think i should mention this in any interviews for internships, or is this kind of irrelevant? I currently have not taken any of my business courses yet, so do you think i can still land an internship in finance? I had an interview with Merrill Lynch recently and it went okay, but I felt like the interviewer focused on my lack of financial coursework. I want to get into IB, and hopefully markets rebound by the time i am done with college. Do you think marketing internships would help, or is that in an unrelated field? Any comments by you are appreciated. Thanks for your time.
high school is almost irrelevant. You need to get some relevant experience or courses ASAP. Marketing would help marginally (more so than, say, engineering), but not as much as something in finance or even something in sales.
hi im i am in my 3rd year towards my bachelors degree. i want to get into investment banking…i am little confused that should i go with economics
as my major or finance..i prefer economics over finance…but if i do my grads in economics & minor in Finance then will i get a chance to work as analyst in i-banking..
???????
Either one works, but finance is more helpful in terms of preparing for interviews etc.
Hi,
After researching ib for a while I have decided to pursue that career option. My fear however is that since I will attend northwestern it will not allow me to have many opportunities on wall street. Would going to northwestern be worth my money or should I just go to nyu cas? At northwestern I would be doing the mmss program. http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu
NYU is probably better for finance, though you will have to compete with all the Stern kids as well. I know students from Northwestern who have gotten in but it’s definitely not easy since it’s less of a target school… so NYU is probably a better bet if you’re set on finance.
Hello. I am finishing up my sophomore year at the University of Delaware. I currently have a 3.67 GPA in Finance with an economics minor. Its not really a target school but top has a 60 business program.
I was wondering what are my chances at receiving a IB job at a mid- large sized firm?
Also what would be a good route to improve these chances?
lastly would an one year MSF be a good route to take straight out of school or will I be okay without this?
It depends largely on what kinds of internships you have.
You don’t “receive” a job, you fight for it and you may or may not get it in the end… the non-target school will work against you, but if you can put forth an aggressive networking effort and land solid internships, you stand a good chance of getting in.
MSF would only be marginally useful – I would focus on an extensive networking effort instead.
Hey,
Great advice. I will be a freshmen in a top finance program next year so I know it is early for me but I am scared for my prospects of an internship in ibanking because of the current economic trends. To all the recruiters out there, what is it that you look for from a freshmen applying for internships?
I ask because “experience in finance” is something most of them would not have. Do you look at what schools they went to, what clubs they joined, their GPA, the finance related clubs they joined, or what?
Also, are there specific classes that would help me land this internship? For example, in looking at Microsoft’s finance internship position page, I see that they want somebody experienced in risk management so I would probably want to take a risk management class to qualify for this position.
Another criterion Microsoft looks at is: “Demonstrated analytical and problem solving skills.” Any ideas as to how I can achieve this in my first year of college?
Thanks so much!
Ricardo
You should browse through the archives because I’ve written a lot about this before. Try to get informal / unpaid internships working somewhere, and take it from there. No one cares about clubs/activities, though GPA and school name are important.
Hi,
Thanks a lot for this website. I have been following this for quite some time and have found it to be very resourceful. I had some questions and was wondering if you could help me out.
1. I will be a senior this fall and am interning for the Wealth Management division of a major investment bank. I have contacted a great number of people in the investment banking arm of my firm. I was wondering what else I could do to be a better candidate. Do I keep networking with more people here even though I have about 10-12 good contacts?
2. I on one of the posts that you said that rounding off a 3.44 to a 3.5 is ok. I have a 3.87. Is it ok to put 3.9 on my resume especially if the banks ask me for my transcript during an interview?
Thanks.
Jojo.
1. You get diminishing returns after that. More is always better, but 10-12 is a good number. I would not go crazy with it.
2. Yes.
Thanks for the response.
It would be great if you could help me out with a few more questions.
1. All through your articles the general theme has been that ‘fit’ get you the job as opposed to ‘technical’ skills. Do you see that changing in the current economic senerio considering that a lot of companies have to cut costs (including training budgets)?
2. You have said before that once someone gets the interview, status of undergrad college/GPA doesn’t matter anymore. Is that true even now (considering that this is an employers market). I mean, wouldn’t you, as an HR, be taking a greater risk in hiring a non-target school grad (like me) as opposed to a Wharton/Harvard person (if the Wharton grad doesn’t end up doing a great job, an HR can possibly cover their rear end by pointing to the fact that he/she was from a stellar school with a good acedemic record)?
3. Lastly, in this market (and I realize that exact numbers are difficult to get) how many (if any) people do you think will be hired from non-target schools without a banking internship? In other words, being from a non-target (but still pretty good) school and not having a banking internship (I have 2 internships in Wealth Management in a bulge bracket investment bank), what are my chances of getting hired? I have a decent number contacts and have a competitive acedemic record (3.87 GPA).
Thanks again. I really appreciate your help.
Regards,
Jojo Mukherjee.
1) No. Interviews are more technical, but how much they like you still determines who gets offers.
2) I think I said that GPA no longer matters once you get interviews. Status of undergrad will always play a role and you will have to defend yourself coming from a lesser-known school (see recent articles).
3) I don’t have exact #s, but I would guess maybe 5% or fewer out of 1,000 or so new bankers hired each year are from that background. I’m not sure how many apply from your background, though, so I don’t know the probability.
Hi,
Thanks for the answers. I was wondering if you could tell me something. In terms of exit opportunities from banking into PE, what group is most likely to help make the transition easier? Is FIG a good group to be in if I am looking to go into PE?
Thanks.
FIG is a good bet. M&A, LevFin, Financial Sponsors are also good. These days M&A and FIG obviously have the most activity though.
Do Honors or Phi Beta Kappa help at all?
Not really, most academic honors mean relatively little as long as you did well to begin with.
Hi,
I am 35 yrs old and doing my parttime MBA in Fairleigh with major in finance will be completing end of this yr. Currently have a job profile as AVP at major financial institution but in IT operations. I was wondering if there are any chances of me getting into IB. investment is my passion and i am even planning to take Chartered fin analyst certification. Will it help to switch my career. i am really getting real good opportunity in current field but due to my passion with finance i want reject that opportunity. please advise.
Thanks,
Raj
It’s difficult with that background. To make the switch, you will need to target much smaller firms and probably move down from the VP-level – for someone with your experience it is extremely difficult to switch over from the back office to the front office at the same bank.
Thank you for the quick response. i even want to move down. is there a possibility to get foot into smaller boutique’s? will taking the Chartered fin analyst certification will have any leverage? and learning financial models from wallstreetprep will have any leverage?
Thanks,
Raj
Those types of classes/certifications generally do not help too much. The best way to move is extensive networking, focusing on smaller firms and cold-calling as much as possible.
Thank you!! I want to give it a shot before giving up, i do not want to give up without trying.
Thanks,
Raj
wow, I hate to burden you with another “what if” question after all your previous posts… but I am a little nervous about my situation.
I am a rising junior to a top 15 University, majoring in Economics, with a 3.7 GPA (3.8 major). I’ve taken accounting and finance classes, as well as some pretty analytical economics classes. I’m also involved in a finance/investing type club at my school. The summer after my freshman year I interned at a ML wealth management branch, where I was basically introduced to many of the workings of finance, though I wasn’t able to work on legitimate projects partly due to my knowledge limitations, I guess, and some legal restrictions.
This summer, I’m interning at the financial branch of the city of Frankfurt, Germany, with the intentions to further my German language capabilities, and learn more about finance. However… my work here is unexpectatedly “non-financial,” in that I’m mostly learning about the financials of public services, and not private finance. So I’m basically learning about tax policies, and public accounting.
While the work here is interesting, I’m worried that my lack of tangible “real financial experience” will hurt my chances of landing an IBD summer internship for the summer of my junior year… if I’m asked how I benefited from this Germany internship, how could I spin it to my advantage? I’m worried that these two summer internships may look useless, in comparison to other applications who may have had more valuable financial work experience… thanks for any advice.
Say you learned a lot about the culture and German companies while there, and position yourself as the “Germany expert who also knows finance.” You’re still at a big disadvantage next to anyone who’s had an IBD internship, so extract what was useful/memorable from your internship and then take it from there.
hello
thnks a lot for info
i am 2008 chemical engineering graduate presently in oil and gas.want to get into investment banking….thinking of giving cfa l1 this december…..would it help…
if not can you tell me way forward to get my step in the door…
thnks advance
Business school or networking. CFA is useless for investment banking. Since you’re a 2008 graduate, a ton of networking is probably the better bet – see the recent podcasts for guidance on that.
Hi,
Thanks for answering our questions. I understand that places like Lazard and Evercore are considered in the same league as MS and GS. Is Houlihan Lokey just as prestegious?
Thanks.
No, they’re a step down but in this market you cannot afford to think about prestige.
Hi,
Thanks for the answer. I just wanted to clarify something. When you say ‘they’ are a step down, do you mean Lazard and Evercore as compared to MS and GS or HL as compared to Lazard? Thanks.
MS, GS, Evercore, and Lazard are all about the same – however GS/MS probably provide better exit opportunities, or at least access to larger PEs/HFs.
HL is a step down from MS, GS, Evercore, and Lazard in that you won’t get access to the same types of recruiters and opportunities.
Hi,
I am currently studying Accountancy Degree and hoping to major in Finance. I am very keen to working in the bank as I am passionate about trading Stock and Forex, but scared that I will not be able to stand a chance with other top students as my results arent that good. I am picking up other trading skills to give myself a better advantage but not sure it is the right way. Are there any skills that I should enquire to put me at the better position when I compare with the top students? What should I do to get in to Banking Industry? I am willing to take up any skills that would help me in any way possible. Thank you.
I would think in terms of people rather than skills. Especially in the current economy, who you know matters much more than what you know. So pick up the phone and start getting some internships (even informal, unpaid experience)… that is the only thing that will overcome poor grades. See all the recent articles / podcasts / case studies here on networking.
Hi,
I transferred from a community college to a top 20 university. Does this hurt my chances of getting an internship or a job with an investment bank because I have attended a community college.
Thank You.
As long as you’ve done well there since, no, not really. It will come up in interviews but you can turn it into a strength.
Hi,
Thank you for your quick response. Does it help to include books about the market that you have read in your resume or news papers like the Wall Street Journal. To show your interest and knowledge in the subject. Thank You.
Not really… unless you have nothing else related to business/finance, it doesn’t help much. During an interview, you want to talk about things besides the WSJ / finance news…
Im a senior looking to apply to colleges for the fall of 2010. Could you please tell me which schools will give me the best chance of getting an investment banking internship and which ones will give me no shot at all.
Thanks.
Davidson College (economics)
Hamilton college (economics)
Colby(economics)
Cornell University (IRL)
Emory University (business)
University of Virginia (economics)
University of Michigan(economics)
Rice University (economics)
College of William and Mary(business)
University of Richmond(business)
University of Texas—Austin(economics)
Northeastern University (economics)
Cornell, UVA, and UMich (Ross) are best for IB – at the rest of the schools some banks may recruit but it’s not to the same level as at those 3.
Hey love the website. Lots of useful info.
I just completed an internship in VC and got some experience but VC was incredibly slow considering their money was all tied up in other investments due to the lack of IPOs. I’m pretty sure I can leverage my experience but it’s not the same as it would be in a better economic state. VC is the only finance related experience I have even though I consider it more of an art than a science.
As a student at Purdue University entering my senior year, does this VC experience give me enough “resume power” to land an interview or at least be considered?
Also is it possible to break into private equity (LBO) without the IB experience?
Thanks
PE without IB is hard but do-able – VC experience definitely gives you a big leg-up. You’ll still have an easier time getting into IBD (and yes you should get interviews) but PE is worth considering if you have the connections.
Hi,
Do IBs only recruit UVA and UMich students in the business school?
thanks.
They focus on the business schools but do some recruiting elsewhere as well.
M&I:
Your blog is very informative and helpful. It has answered many of the myriad of questions I have about IB. I am a senior at a not-top tier state school and will be graduating in the spring with a B.S. in both Finance in accounting. My GPA will be a 3.0 when I graduate. This is because I used to be pre-med, wasn’t sure what I wanted in life, and needed time to mature. By the time I graduate, I will have bounced back from a 0.0 my first semester (and consequent low grade semesters) to a 3.0. During my last year I will have a year of experience in sales and client relations at two different jobs while taking maximum credits (and obtaining dean’s list recognition).
My questions is that, if I am able to land a job as a financial analyst for a small company thats is recognizable, and get my MBA from a mid-tier program and graduate with honors, will I have a good shot at being hired by an IB 3 years from now when employment picks up? The reason I am asking this is because I do not want to take a path that leads nowhere. I want to position myself to move up in the ranks. I know that if I were to go out into the job market today I would find nothing that interests me. I believe the economy will be expanding 3 years from now, and banks will start hiring again. I believe I can benefit from getting a MBA a year after gaining some analyst experience and differentiate myself from candidates fresh out of college. What do you recommend for my situation?
Yeah I would just try to get as much experience as possible, try to make it something finance/client-related, and then also do something impressive outside work to get into a top b-school – that is by far the most important part of your plan.
Whether or not the market will improve 3 years from now is anyone’s guess – personally I’m pessimistic and I believe the government is completely screwing up the economy, but who knows…
Should I bother getting my CFA and CPA? Would that help my chances of getting into a good business school? Also, would it be better to focus on Finance or Economics for my MBA? 1 more question- Would a job in commercial real estate suffice as long as it is finance/client related? I might have an in to a firm that only hires from schools like Wharton, which is why I ask.
No CFA/CPA are useless. MBA focus doesnt matter
Yes commercial real estate is fine, again not as good as banking/PE but better than most other options.
I am currently working at a big 4 firm in my fourth year. I am trying to make the switch into private equity. I have wanted to get into investment banking and have had exposure to the products, derivatives, bonds, securities etc. I have also spent a significant amount of time auditing aquisitions. I have spent some time networking, researching and have decided that PE is my goal. I have an interview with Goldman for an accounting position in their investment division. The position would be to analyze P&Ls and reporting, things I am trying to get away from. However, it is with Goldman so I am considering the position. This is my question:
Do I:
1. Go on the interview, be honest with them on what I want and potentially not get the job but maybe be kept in mind for something else.
2. Go on the interview potentially take the job then try to switch
3. Not go on the interview and wait for what I really want
Thanks in advance for your advice. Love your site.
I would probably go to the interview, tell them you’ve become more interested in investing and try to sense if anyone ever makes the move to PE.
It’s worth going just for the practice and since it’s Goldman but I think it’s going to be really hard to switch from that to PE unless you have a really solid connection.
I’m a sophmore at Northwestern, I plan on graduating a semester early. Can I still get an Internship in the summer before I graduate at an Ibank even though I am in senior standing. Also I have heard that Ibanks only hire First Year Analysts in the fall, is this true?
Yes, you can. And yes, most large banks only recruit first-year analysts in the fall (or they simply hire summer interns).
So will this hurt my chances of getting a job or will they still hire me for the spring, if the IBank likes my performance during the internship?
Internship hiring takes place in winter and it shouldn’t hurt your chances
Is it worth it to become a Certified Financial Analyst before I graduate college to have on my resume before I apply to banks next year?
At least level 1…
No, CFA is not helpful
Any reason why? Don’t al analysts have to do it at some point? Wouldn’t it give me a better idea of what I’ll be doing as an analyst? Thanks for all of your help!
No, Investment Banking Analysts never have to take the CFA.
And it’s not representative of what you do in investment banking, at all – the CFA is much more general and 90% of it you never even use in banking.
Banking is primarily administrative work and emailing/calling people, with a bit of finance thrown in occasionally.
Hey, I’m currently a sophmore at Stern with a 3.8 and was curious about the background checks. Should I be worried about a sealed record? does anyone know if they’ll have access to this and hoew much it will hurt me?
i dont think it matters
Thanks for your answers. What is the point of becoming a CFA then? What jobs require it?
Most useful in portfolio management… the CFA sounds good in theory but in reality no one in banking/PE cares much about it.
First off, I’d like to thank you for providing such an interesting/informative website. I just have a few questions.
I am a statistics major entering my senior year at a university known for its mathematics programs. My school has a 5 year internship program which allows for the opportunity to attain internships for 4 month terms alternating between school terms and work terms (no summers). As a result, I have attained a variety of different work experience (including 1 intl. internship). I have worked for 2 terms as an investment administrator at a trust company, 2 terms as an actuarial analyst in pensions consulting departments and 1 term as a student economist in a corporate economics department. My fear is that I have although I have a variety of experience, none of these appear to be directly finance related and my major isn’t in finance or economics. I have a great passion for finance and have taken lots of higher level corporate finance, investment and business courses at university. Also, I feel I have learned many skills at work that would apply directly into ibanking.
My questions are 1) How would I best market myself for ibanking based on these skills? 2) How important is volunteer work/clubs? 3) How helpful would going to a local financial modelling seminar (run by ibankers) be for me?
1) Follow the resume formats I have here and make sure everything is project/client-based so it looks like finance
2) Useless
3) Maybe marginally helpful but shouldn’t spend a lot of time/money on it
Hello, Thanks again for all the useful advice above. My question is as follows and based on my own situation:
I started out my career with 5 years in the military, in the corps engineers and gained technical qualifications their (A Design manager in civvy terms).
I then left and completed a 3year business degree (undergrad) at a top 3 UK school (2.1. which is adequate to get into any top firm). Whilst there I began investing in property and built up an investment portfolio of circa 20 properties.
A year ago, I took a job with the investment arm of a top UK construction firm (investing in 30 year public private partnerships). As a cost manager, putting together capital replacement models for deals of £100m +.
I think I may like to go into investment banking, possibly trading for a more fast turnaround environment. I’m now 28 years old and i’m wondering whether its worth me doing an MBA (having already done a business degree) or if I could go straight into IB/Trading?
If I could go straight in, what level would I be able to go in at?
Many thanks in advance,
RichM
I would definitely do an MBA – otherwise the transition is just too tough. They’d never let you come in as an Analyst with that much experience, Associate post-MBA is more appropriate.
I have to congratulate you guys.I have been looking at these types of websites for awhile and most talk tosh but this is good. I like the frankness. This website is such a relevant source. Nothing on the web that really compares and its free; all the more attractive.
I hate paying for online resources (i’m more of a book person) but your modelling course has tempted me.
Thanks guys.
Hi there,
Please let me inform you of my situation and hopefully you can email me and give some feedback of what to do/how to approach the future. I am two years out of college and have not landed a job in investment banking yet–I have applied constantly and have not been able to get my foot in the door and begin a career. My GPA is not that high but I went to a competitive school and interned as a research analyst. I am worried that the investment banking window for me is closing/closed. I believe an MBA is not right for me due to my lack of experience and not having a high enough GPA to attend a top school. Would someone like Glocap be able to help? Your insight is greatly appreciated
Glocap is generally not too helpful unless you have banking experience already – I would try to get some kind of informal / unpaid finance internship at a small firm, and then leverage that to get into b-school in a few years.
Hi there,
I am an Accounting major and I will be graduating next year may. My GPA is quite low and have not had any internship in finance or any related field. these are the plans that i have in mind.
1) after undergrad, go and get MAcc to be able to write the CPA whiling working at the same time.
2) After working for about 2yrs, go to grad school again and get a Msc in investment mgt or any related field from a top 10 school ( i am thinking on university of reading, UK)..
then hopefully land on a good IB or PE job.
i would like to know your take on that and also any suggestions concerning my plan.
Thanks in advance.
I think either one works but the CPA doesn’t really help with finance internships/jobs. I would go for some kind of Master’s program in finance instead and try to get into a top school, though that may be hard if your GPA is low.
Hi again,
I was wondering if you could recommend any small finance firms that have in the past taken on unpaid employees while providing them with the experience necessary to move on to a paid position with them or another company shortly thereafter (i.e. entrly level investment banker)?
Thank You
It really depends on what region you’re in, because most of these small places only have 1 or 2 offices. I would start by looking online for regional boutiques in your area – you can find lists on message boards and sometimes on a few other sites.
I graduated last year from undergrad with an computer science degree, but realized that banking is what I truly want to do. I am now attending Stanford for a M.S. in Management Science & Engineering.
From the above comments, I see that you recommend against going to graduate school. However, given I am already in this scenario, what’s the best way for me to break in. It’s a 2-year program, so I still have a summer to try for internships before FT recruiting.
also if this helps, my previous internships have been from blue chip brand names, but as software engineering
You need to take advantage of on-campus recruiting + do a lot of networking, given your background. An internship will be essential, so I’d start putting together your “story” (i.e. why banking) and reaching out to alumni right now in preparation for internship season. Get a banking internship this summer and you’ll have a much easier time getting in.
Hi,
First of all i want to thank you for all the useful info,before asking you few quetions i would like to give you my background:
Education : I did my Masters (distance learning) in Banking in india -> quest to learn about investment banking lead me to CFA course completed level 1 will be appearing for level 2
Professional : worked as an officer at an indian bank it was more of sales role in retail branch -> moved to a MNC bank HSBC as Financial planning manager managing portfolios for retail customers ,selling bank products and third party products -> wanted to move into investment banking so moved with a startup investment banking firm in their wealth management divison thinking after few yrs of exp will move into their IB div but before i could do that i got married and moved to US .
Now after reading that let me tell u about my best skills :
excellent communciation skills, i never said “NO” before trying it out .
My questions :
1) Should i continue CFA and without working and spend another 2 yrs ??
2) Which field of IB would be best suited for me given my exp &edu in india?
3)Reading your other posts i figured out that networking is best bet to get into a particular field ,but question is “How” when u are in a new country with no contacts and no guidance.
4) should i arm myself with degrees from universities for which i will have to spend considerable amount of money which would be very difficult but doable .
or
b) Should i register for courses like wallstreet prep or your own BIWS ,since here i will not have hands on exp but only the knowledge , which would be basic knowledge .
or
c) Please let me know any other appraoch which would land me a job or internship paid or unpaid where i can at least enter the filed suggeted by you.
Your help would be really appericiated .
Rgds,
Vaishali
1) I would not do the CFA at all – waste of time for investment banking.
2) I would go for something in emerging markets.
3) Look online and on Facebook and find professional business/networking groups in your area – then go to those meetings and expand from there.
4) No.
You can look into training courses, but honestly networking will always give you more leverage… a training course helps with interviews, but it’s not going to get you interviews in the first place.
Hi,
Thanks a lot , one more question , “something in emerging markets ” like what ??could you please elaborate a little, i’m sorry i dont have much knowledge in this field .
Rgds,
Vaishali
Emerging markets = Brazil, China, India, Russia (BRIC), and possibly some others in Asia/South America.
You might want to pitch yourself as someone who understands them due to your experience in India and then go to a fund that invests in those markets or a bank that works in those markets.
Hello – you’ve answered so many questions that I’ve got to post mine. I graduated from Northwestern in 2007 with a 2.9. I had no real conception of economics or anything like that previously, but that has budded in the past two years sprouting in the following soil – A. extensive government policy studies B. political economy theory & C. working as an accountant at the HQ office of huge global law firm.
I’m mostly interested in monetary policy for national & international institutions & intend to get an MA in economics for the formal training ASAP. I want to articulate monetary & economic policies to government policymakers.
My questions are A – what are your thoughts on this planned MA in the context of the policy interest; B – is investment banking appropriate for someone ultimately interested in policymaking rather than moneymaking; and C – what else can you advise generally – I wish someone in my family or community had guided me on this but I was really pushed toward education & law, and was essentially oblivious to actual economy prior to working as an accountant – can you advise on any steps to assist in my goals.
A. I honestly don’t know much about it but it sounds logical to me. B. Not really – investment banking has almost nothing to do with policy, so I would focus on the government / institutional side instead.
C. #1 piece of advice is to get some informal / part-time work experience in monetary policy in any way you can.
Cool – & thanks. I appreciate your taking time to answer my question & all these others.
Hi,
I am currently a CPA with over 3 years experience working as an external auditor for a Big 4 Accounting Firm after graduating from a top 50 college of business with a 3.6 GPA. I have experience working on Banking clients and performing due diligence work although my focus is in the Manufacturing Industry. Lately, I have not found the work to be challenging or fullfilling professionally. I have always found the equity markerts interesting and, of course, I want to do well financially. Do you think a Tier I MBA is my best bet to get involved in this industry, or do you think my current resume is enough to get me in the door? I have already applied for a few jobs online without much luck. Do you have any other thoughts/suggestions.
THANKS
I would say that the tier 1 MBA is definitely your best bet – with that much experience it gets difficult to enter directly as an Analyst.
Maybe try contacting some alumni to gauge their reaction, but I would go for tier 1 programs and try to do a good pre-MBA program over the summer, for example, in finance if that’s possible.
I’m a scientist (Ph.D. doing a postdoctoral stint at the moment) who is looking into the I-Banking field, as I’ve seen some opportunities on the research end for people with scientific backgrounds. What is your experience/knowledge with people who have made similar jumps – how much of a problem is the lack of finance/business background?
Any other advice/reading suggestions before embarking too far on this potential career change would be welcome.
Best regards,
MJ
Generally you get the most leverage from a Ph.D. if you go into equity research or you go to a hedge fund and do something very technical there. In investment banking it is not too helpful a background to have because most of the math/analysis you do is on the level of a 5th grader… basic arithmetic.
Hello,
I am currently in Project Management and have been for a number of years. Most of it is related to manufacturing with little exposure to finance.
I have an MBA (form a lesser school) and intend on completing my MS Finance within a year. How can I sell my academic credentials to get into the field with a 10 year professional career that is unrelated.
Thanks,
Jeff
That’s quite tough if you already have an MBA. I would position it as something like, “I have a lot of industry contacts in this field, and can help your bank by making introductions and applying my industry-specific expertise” and position yourself like that. The MS Finance will help, but you need to offer something unique with a 10+ year work record.
Hi,
I am 28 years old. I completed my Bsc Economics & Finance at a top 10 school in the UK but after graduating pursued my first choice career as a tour professional golfer. I have achieved some good success but not enough to continue. What do you think is the best way for me to approach getting into investment banking? Or where else within finance should I look for a career with most reasonable lifestyle/work balance? Also how can I make my golf experience work on my resume?
Many Thanks
Business school is your best bet at this point. Try to do some type of unpaid / informal finance internship before going, and then get into a top MBA program and use your background to your advantage in interviews (“client relationship skills”).
What is the difference between the UBS anchorage, AK office Vs UBS LA? Would they be looked at differently on a resume?
Yes. I don’t even think UBS has a real Alaska office, but obviously the busier the office is, the better… if you go to a random location in the middle of nowhere it won’t be valued as highly as, say, NYC or London.
I’m interested in getting into IB. I do not have any formal education in finance. I have a BA from a decent university. I have some real estate sales experience and some experience as an entrepreneur. I know that I am not traditionally qualified for a career in the investment banking field and i know that simply sending my resume would not be effective. I do have a very close friend who works for a large bank in Europe. Would it be worth the effort to be an intern working 20 hrs a day for no pay with little background in finance. Is it feasible to acquire the appropriate knowledge simply from work experience or would my lack of a degree in finance be a problem? Is there a specific focus in banking that I could fit into.
I would do some kind of unpaid or informal internship, and then use that to transition in. Try real estate investment banking. And yes, working a lot to eventually leverage the position would be worth it.
Hi,
Site is good stuff.
Question:
I have CPA & CFA. I work in tax at big four accounting firm. After reading this blog it seems IB may not be my best fit, but i do want to move into finance. What field in finance works best with my background? Would equity research be appropiate? Thanks in advance.
Nothing is a great “fit” with that kind of tax background – I would suggest getting into the valuation / TAS group at your firm first instead and then going into banking.
sorry and my 3 years of experience is focused on large public financial services filers.
How important is it for a student at a “target school” to have experience in banking prior to applying to summer internships? It seems like there are very few opportunities to gain experience in I-banking prior to Junior/Senior year summer internships. What types of things can a Freshmen or Sophomore do to stand out when it comes time to apply for summer internships if he/she has no previous experience in banking.
Do school-year internships at boutiques, start an investment club, do independent study / training, go to seminars, case study competitions…
What advice would you give to a second-year student in economics at a not well known school? All I have to leverage is a back office internship at AIG and some first year bank events. At the moment, I’m just doing online applications for internships at banks and it’s pretty quiet. Though I don’t think it’s as bad as the US where non-targets don’t even get a look. (I’m in the UK). Any advice?
Read all the networking articles/videos/podcasts, case studies, and the information on cold-calling on this site… you need to get on the phones ASAP and start calling alumni and local banks if you’re not at a well-known school.
Greetings,
Firstly, I would like to thank you for the very well designed and informative website.
I’m a female with a B.S in Mechanical Engineering. I’m currently unemployed. Graduated in May 09 in FL and currently living in Manhattan, NY.
Tell you the truth I’m not interested in Engineering. The only reason I pursued it was that I love math and I’m very good at it. While looking for a job as a mechanical engineer, a friend of mine suggested I go into investment banking since I’m good with numbers and love logistics.
What do you recommend I do. I’m reading and researching a lot about I.B today, and I feel THIS IS IT. I feel I BELONG doing this. However, I have no idea on where to start. On a previous questioned asked, you answered to another engineer to go into smaller banks or hedge funding (correct me if I’m wrong). Is this what I should do???? I have a very high self esteem. Unlike any other engineer (no offense to my colleagues) I’m not a nerd. i’m smart, out-going, great communication skills, awesome sales skills, business oriented mind (I owned my own small business for 2 years when I was 23-25 yrs old) Do you think this will help me????
Oh God, I have so many more questions but I don’t wanna kill you withe them.
Please help me with as much info you could give me. I’m new to the I.B (actually even the idea of getting into I.B is literally 24 hrs old but I’m in love with it)
In any case, you have my personal email address. Please e-mail me any more info you would like to share/help me.
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE
MIRELA
You should read everything on this site on networking – the dozens of articles, videos, and podcasts. Short answer is you’ll need to do a ton of cold-calling and alumni networking at this point. Doesn’t matter how great you are at business – if you’re out of school its an uphill battle because banks have VERY structured recruiting processes.
It’s great to spread the net wide and apply to everything sort-of relevant but would an internship in Valuations in Advisory at accountancies, for example, help me much for a grad program at an IB in M&A? Thanks.
(And I think you should add dates/time to your responses so we know how relevant/up-to-date your advice is
)
It will help somewhat, but not as much as consulting or something else in finance like PE/HFs.
Hello,
I first want to start about thanking you for all your posts. They are great reads and incredibly informative. I have a question concerning an upcoming career decision.
My eventual goal is to get to the buy side (hf, pe) and have heard the best way to do this is through ibanking. I am currently in the masters of accounting program at UT-austin and recruiting for internships with BB is about to begin. However, I currently have a full time offer from Rothstein Kass to do audit/tax work on hedge funds. The UT program is a fall spring and summer so if I go the intern route I move the summer to the fall and graduate a semester later.
My stats are a 730 GMAT, 3.9 GPA from FSU with a triple major fin,account, econ and minor in math. Internship Raymond James FA – small office was only intern and it was wealth management.
Curious as to your opinion of my chances for getting an interview with a BB through the resume drop on our online recruiting site. All of the BBs and good MMs recruit here but I do not have any contacts and it would just be a resume drop.
Also, I am definitely considering taking the FT offer from RK and forgoing the intern/ibank route and am curious as to your opinion of me switching over to buy side this way. I figure the pluses is I will make good contacts in the industry (audit/tax on hedge funds and pe firm) and would be willing to try to get to a tier 1 MBA program.
One other note is that the resume drop for banking deadline is December 1 and you are not notified if you get an interview till mid december. The RK offer explodes on december 1. And this is one main reason I am currently leaning RK route. The whole bird in the hand saying. Plus I really like culture and people at RK. Nevertheless, I realize accounting (even if on buy side shops) is definitely different from ibanking.
Any thoughts on my situation are definitely appreciated. And thanks again for all of your articles and taking the time to give everyone advice.
Drew
I would definitely not do tax/audit work if you want to do PE – 100x harder to move in from there vs. IB. I think you have a good shot at banking interviews so if I were you I would go for those instead. You could always just accept the other offer and renege if you get something better.
One other note is that the ibank jobs are all primarily in houston and for energy. Not sure if you have any insight into how many interns a BB takes on each year for this type of position.
Thanks again in advance, I realize I just typed a lot but definitely appreciate any insight.
Drew
First, I would like to say I definitely appreciate the timely response.
Second, not that I would but the accept and renege is not even an option as I would be blocked from online recruiting at school. I am thinking about asking for an extension till Feb 1 but not sure if they give two month extensions even though the start date is Nov 1.
3rd, your response is definitely the vibe that I am getting and know that if I did go the intern route I would have all winter break to study for interviews and feel comfortable about technical questions and the energy industry. So I think that if I could get the interview I would do well. Only problem with that is my past work experience. Any ideas on how I would sell my measly Raymond James Financial Advisor internship to them. It was a 4 person shop and the most financial related thing I would do would enter in a bunch of a clients info into a computer and watch it spit out a hypothetical portfolio.
Once again, Appreciate your help big time and your timely response.
THX a bunch
Drew
You have to play it up as much as you can and make it look like banking experience by splitting it into different projects/clients… see the resume templates on this site. Emphasize the client work and analysis you did. And I would ask for an extension.
hey, i go to a non-target small liberal arts college and our career fairs are terrible. do you think i should go to the career fair of a more prestigious school and try to network from there? i currently have a 4.0 gpa & majors are biology and business with a concentration in finance.
thanks in advance.
Yes
Which is the best place to start if one would ultimately like to work on the prop desk or internal hedge fund of a large bank? S&T obviously gives good experience but valuation methods learned in IB could be very helpful as well, right? Can you go straight to the desk?
Also, where is the best place to mention all the time you spend learning about finance and the markets outside of school (i.e. via reading on your own)? I want to show my willingness and initiative but I don’t know that something like that fits in a resume. Or do you just have to hope you land an interview so you can get it across there?
Thanks for you help!
S&T is a better bet than IBD, and yes with an internship you can do it right away. I would just mention the independent study somewhere on your resume and maybe in your cover letter.
I see a lot of people on this website with differing backgrounds and work experience, and thought you could answer my question.
I am a Captain in the Army currently, and was curious as to whether you or anyone you know has dealt with former military officers making the transition to investment banking.
I have a finance degree from Carnegie Mellon and 3.5 years in as an Army officer currently. What do you think the best route would be? Thanks for your help.
It’s very common actually, you see a lot of ex-military people in finance. Business school is the best option.
Cool article! The style and wording really makes the resume different.
However, I’m still wondering if that resume is enough for an inexperienced person with Marketing background and an MBA to get a call.
How about a functional resume which puts all relevant transferable skills above and the job experience below? I’ve heard that this kind of resume can help a lot but have not seen it in this website.
No. Never do this for investment banking.
Hi – your site is fantastic, thanks for putting all this stuff up!
I wanted to get some advice on my situation, which is somewhat complicated. I want to move into a more finance/deal-oriented profession from what I do now, which is product management in the tech vertical. What I do now is very market oriented and I have encountered opportunities to move into venture capital from time to time.
The current company I work for just got acquired by a very large + prominent tech company.
Do you think the best way to go into a private equity / VC situation is to continue to work in my current function and vertical, transition into VC and then transition into more generic PE? Or do you think I should go get an MBA from a top program (I got admitted to one in NYC) and then leverage that positioning to go into Venture or PE/CorpDev?
Thanks in advance! -JP
MBA is better. VC limits you too much and would make it more difficult to move into general PE.
Hi,
I found this site extremely helpful in that I am experiencing some qualms with an I-Banking job myself. I am a current Junior at a mid level liberal arts school (Villanova). I currently have a GPA of 3.6 and am raising it by semester. I play D1 lacrosse at school and have success balancing school with lacrosse. However, I have noticed lately that my chance of receiving an I-Banking job is less than likely. Most kids end up taking a financial advisor or analyst job, both of which I am uninterested in. So, would a JD/MBA combo degree be more beneficial, or should I take an analyst job at a big bank and try to change jobs after a year or so?
Thank you,
KW
It’s better to do i-banking right out of school if you can… otherwise work for a few years and do a top MBA program. Do NOT do a JD or JD/MBA or MBA immediately after you finish undergrad.
Why do you always suggest getting in as early as you leave school? Is it really hard to change direction later on if you have great experience?
By the way, how big of a difference could you learn from an internship in a Big 4, corporate finance advisory division from an IB internship? I realize that the job descriptions and the required skill sets are quite similar…
Yes, it is exponentially more difficult to get in later on because banks are highly structured and rigid in their recruiting processes.
Big 4 corporate finance vs. IB is actually not that different in terms of what you learn, but on your resume it makes a huge difference and having a bank name will get you much further vs. Big 4.
I am a Junior in a target school in Singapore, obtained a good GPA (above 3.7), and do a double degree in business management (finance major) and accountancy. I did internships in BNP Paribas, equity research division at an emerging market and at a corporate finance advisory division of one of the big accounting firms.
What are my chances of getting into IB in a BB in Singapore later?
Also, on my resume, which internship would I want to focus more on?
Your chances are good. If you did banking at BNP focus more on that one, otherwise focus more on the equity research one.
This blog page is awesome! I am a 24 yr old recent business graduate of The College of Charleston which probably isn’t a highly recognized institution. Luckily I am seeking a job in finance in a mid market area(Charlotte, NC) in order to start a career path toward IB. I notice that cold calling/networking is commonly recommended in your advice. Just wondering when calling these boutique firms who are the best ppl to talk to over the phone so I’m not just “spinning my wheels”. And to let you know applying online is useless for the average Joe. Replies/ interviews are hard to come by with that route other than the scam artists(startup fee employers) out there which are growing in numbers due to the apparent unemlpoyment rate. Any assistance on how to get in the right ears at these firms would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
MDs are best if you can get them, otherwise try main line go through HR and ask for bankers
Hey there M&I,
Thanks for the great content. Please do comment on my situation:
I want to gain real world valuation experience with BB in the Asia Pacific region (HK/China/Singapore).
I am a major in electrical engineerig major, minor in business, (not ridiculously) below par GPA, graduated 1+ yrs ago from unknown school (but relatively known in Asia Pacific), north of the border.
I have 2 yrs experience (of full responsibility, paid internships with different companies) in software, communications, and control systems engineering in North America and two other countries in Asia Pacific.
I have 1 yr post-grad consulting experience in IT consulting (go Tiger) building core banking systems.
From what I have read on your site, the suggestions for action plans seem to be:
1. Network / Cold Call tons > Couple of years at regional boutique > BB analyst
2. Top MBA program in States (unlikely with my sub par GPA from unknown college?) > Associate
3. Hedge funds by way of pitch about capacity for quants (unlikely considering there are more math wiz out there with technical post grad degrees?) > BB Associate
I am guessing you’ll suggest number 1, but some questions if you will:
A. What are my chances for even an interview at BB in Asia Pacific considering my school is relatively recognized in the region?
B. What do you think of this plan: undergrad law from (arguably) top uni in UK (secured an offer) > summer intern at BB (by way of uni prestige level) > BB analyst in Asia Pacific after grad?
C. What should I do in the mean time to make myself more marketable besides gaining experience at boutiques? Take the BIWS course for (only) 200 bucks?
Thanks in advance!
Chances are low simply because you’re already working full-time… most of the time they only hire people still in school. Your plan to go to the UK and then summer intern via that sounds good.
Other than that, all you can really do in the meantime is start networking and getting your name out there – at this stage you need to go back to school to re-brand yourself.
M&I,
Great site, congrats. Seeking your advice. I am a recently laid off mergers and acquisitions attorney that is seeking to transition into finance. I worked at a top 50 NYC law firm for two years. Prior to which I graduated from a top 20 undergraduate school and top 5 law school with mildly above average grades. I am currently studying for the gmat and am testing at around the 750 level with 6 weeks until the exam. I believe I will be able to get a top score and earn entrance into a top 10ish business school. I am currently teaching standardized tests.
Outside of my passing the CFA level I while in law school, I do not have a lot of direct finance experience. If I get into a top 10ish business school, will my lack of experience preclude me from getting an IB job? Do I *need* to get some of unpaid internship before and/or during business school to make my potential MBA worthwhile?
Thanks.
You don’t “need” it necessarily but it will improve your chances by about 100x… so it’s highly recommended.
Thanks M&I
Please give me advice if you can…
My background is in Mechanical Engineering and currently working for the Public Sector, BUT I have almost no job satisfacation at all and I would like to make more money. I started have my eyes laid on Money management, Merger & Accquisitions, Trading, Portfolio Management and etc.
What would be your advice if I am planning to pursue an MBA from an Accredited school next year? Thanks.
Regards,
Get a pre-mba or informal/unpaid internship in finance and only aim for the top business schools, otherwise there’s no point in going.
Huh? What’s a Pre-MBA or Informal/Unpaid Internship? You mean a volunteer type job? I don’t think they allow that? OR
Do you mean enrol in a part time MBA with Co-op Option and see if I can get an internship in Finance???? Thanks.
There are a lot of “pre-MBA” internship programs that let you do something right before you get to school. And some places let you work part-time while you’re at school.
Thanks M&I but please be more specific on the ‘pre-MBA’ program. Can you give an example? A school that facilitates this kind of program. Thanks.
Here are a couple discussions online:
http://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=bw-bschools&tid=73588
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/pre-mba-summer-internship
http://gmatclub.com/forum/pre-mba-internship-87881.html
One way to get them is through this organization:
http://www.ml4t.org/
Hi,
Appreciate if you could set me straight on the various titling conventions in IB/banking in general. While you have the usual Analyst & Associate positions, I recently came across an opening for IB Relationship Manager. Is this just a fancy term for an Analyst position?
I also have an acquaintance in one of the big four working in IB Sales (didn’t get the exact job title). Unsure what it means but the hours are extremely regular (knock off at 6-7 daily) and based on the brief description of what he does on a daily basis, doesn’t quite fit an Analyst role either.
Looking forward to your reply. Thks!
I’m not sure what that means actually – you would need to ask them what it entails.
6-7 PM is probably more of a back office or support role but not 100% sure.
I am a CPA (with a bachelor degree in business) with 4 years of accounting and financial management experience. I need to start a new career in investment banking. Can I apply for an associate level job or will I have to start as an analyst just like a fresh graduate?
And what is the best way to approach an investment bank?
Best idea at this point is business school – you’re too experienced for analyst-level roles. Banks wouldn’t know where to put you, so I’d recommend an MBA.
Thanks a lot for the comment!!
I’m considering a master of finance instead of a MBA. Do you think I would help?
What’s better?
See the FAQ. Master’s is most helpful for people without much experience who need a better school’s name on their resume.
Hi,
I am a CPA and am currently slated to get the ABV designation this summer. Truthfully, I enjoy valuation a lot more than public accounting and am considering making a jump over to IB if possible. I’ve been at public accounting for just a year and a half.
Should I do the MBA or could I make the jump to an analyst?
You could try for Analyst roles if you’ve only been there for 1.5 years; that’s actually not enough experience for a top MBA program.
Hi,
I’m a junior in a math-focused high school (ie. taking calculus at a 2nd year college level). My goal is a high-paying job involving the application of math to finance or economics. What specific job would involve that? Could you recommend a college that would prepare me for that type of job? I’m currently considering Wharton or the Operations Research and Financial Engineering program at Princeton.
Thanks.
Any Ivy League or equivalent school would be good. The programs you mentioned are fine. Think about quant-based hedge funds or other fields more quantitative than investment banking.
I love your site!!!~~ My ultimate goal is getting into a top investment bank.
I’m now a freshman in a college around the top 20, and I’m planning to get a double major in econ-math and bio-chem. Also, another plan would be applying to transfer to another university (around the top 10). In the “transfer” case, I can only have a economics major or a double major in economics and math. What do you think I should choose? I’ve heard that science background is very important to a candidate of investment banking. Is that ture?
Also, What kind of EXAMS can I take to increase my chance? Will SOA or CFA be helpful, or there are other sources?
Your answer will be of great help and importance to me. Thanks in advance.
Please see the FAQ regarding exams – they are all useless. It’s 100% about networking and work experience.
Also see the FAQ on the rest of your questions – your major doesn’t matter, and science major doesn’t much. Just an economics major is fine if that gives you more time for networking / internships.
Hi,
I have been out of school for 2.5 years and have worked in operations (1.5 years) and jumped in the Finance group(F&BM), financial planning and analysis, in a major bulge bracket investment bank. I work anywhere from 65-80 depending on the week and I have been able to excel in both my roles. What is my chance of going of going in IBD specifically Mergers and Acquisitions and what route should I take? Should I go for an MBA. I’m afraid not having experience in IBD will stop me from getting a IB Associate position. Thank you.
Honestly I would go for an MBA at this point. S&T would be easier for you than IBD, so maybe consider that first.
Hi, I am currently awaiting to enter law school at the University of Warwick and I am contemplating a career in IB, possibly in M&A in some investment banks. I hope to stay and work in the UK for a few years before returning to my home country. How would you gauge my chances, seeing that Warwick is one of the ‘target’ unis in the UK?
I do not know anyone in my circle who is working/has worked in IBanks, and I do want to get a taster of working in the IB before heading to the UK for my studies. I feel that it will serve as an excellent indication of my interest in the IB department. How would you advise me to go about doing that?
Btw, there are some great articles here. Thanks, and looking forward to reading more in future.
It’s hard to say based on what you’ve said here because I don’t know anything about your grades, networking, or work experience. Assuming you can do well in Warwick and you have solid internships your chances are good.
Hi, I’m 28 years old and just graduate last May with an MA in economics from a SUNY school, GPA 3.4 (I worked part time) I currently work for an online brokerage firm on Wall Street, and will sit for my Series 7 in less than a week. I really enjoyed my finance classes in grad school and realize that finance is a great career for me, especially since I love learning, numbers and being challenged. I have been at my current job for 3 months but would like to apply for morgan stanley in about a year.
Should I apply for an analyst position and then work my way up or apply directly to the associate position in IB, or wait two years and then apply. I’m also working on my own business idea, and have a business plan drawn up. My school has a strong networking system in nyc and I plan on rubbing lots of elbows this year. What do you advise?
You could not apply for an associate position with that level of experience. I would advise you to apply to small boutiques after a year and work your way up, MS after 1 year of full-time work experience will be almost impossible in a bad market.
I assume that you are referring to boutique IBs and not boutique brokerage firms. Would it also be possible to apply for an analyst position at MS or a similar firm, or would my education proclude me from that?
Yes, boutique IBs. You could go for MS but honestly unless you have really strong brand-names on your resume and you’re still in school it’s almost impossible.
Hi, I graduated from UCSD with a biology degree (3.1 gpa). I understand that i don’t have the traditional business background, but I’ve realized that my interest is in business. After researching the various fields, I find Investment Banking the most challenging one, which suits my personality to a tee. After graduation, I tried to find a job as closely as I could get that has something to do with business, and I found a job in the Operations department of a big biotech company. I’ve been there for 2 years now and would like to transition into ibanking. I’m also going to pusue an MBA a few years down the road, but would like to get into ibanking prior to MBA. What’s your thought on this? Do I pretty much have no chance in getting in ibanking currently without an MBA to back me up? Your thoughts are appreciated.
Quite tough to get into banking directly from that background. MBA is best.
thanks for the reply.
I thought getting an MBA, though, is supposed to be a career-advancer and I thought rarily do people get an MBA for a career changer? Since recruiters want to hire people with a specific experience prior to MBA, wouldn’t that ultimately deafeat the purpose of me getting an MBA in this situation?
You may want to read these articles:
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/positioning-yourself-for-business-school-part-1-the-financier/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/positioning-yourself-for-business-school-part-2-the-non-financier/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/business-school-rebranding/
Hi,
First, can I say how amazed I am that you take the time to answer each of our comments? That, to me, is as valuable as all of the information and insight you share with us.
I am 25 years old, a senior at a state college, and I have a 3.8 major GPA. I emphasize “major GPA” because my overall GPA is only 3.4. I have had an internship at a mid-sized PE firm for the past year where I’ve worked as a Performance Analyst intern. My work there has not provided me with any “deal” experience and I feel as if I don’t even truly work in PE. My department simply monitors the investments made by other PE firms and we report on their performance to our clients. Do i have a shot at entering into IB? How can I leverage my experience? I noticed you mentioned entering into programs at more recognized Universities is helpful…should I enter the global management strategy certification program at a more recognized University nearby? Thanks in advance for your help. You are truly a blessing to those of us who are absolutely clueless.
You do have a shot, but you need to spin what you’ve done to sound more like deal experience… position it as “working with portfolio companies” or “working with the firm’s investments.”
I wouldn’t enter another university just for 1 program – it’s only worth it if you do an actual transfer, which wouldn’t make sense for you at this stage.