Ah, yes, so after deep and thoughtful consideration you’ve decided you want to spend the next few years of your life as an investment banker. Although in some countries I might be legally obligated to stop you, I won’t. In fact I’ll show you how, in three simple steps:
- Get the attention of recruiters and get your foot in the door.
- Make an investment banking resume that stands out and get an interview.
- Nail your superday interviews and land the offer.
Your Foot In The Door
“I opened the doors for you… showed you how the system works… the value of information… how to *get it*! Fulham oil, Brant resources, geodynamics and this is how you pay me back you COCKROACH!”
-Gordon Gekko, “Wall Street” (1987)
If only everyone applying for finance jobs had Gordon Gekko to open the doors for them. But most of us don’t, which is why we need a strategy for getting a foot in the door ourselves.
The strategy you use depends greatly on your background. And there are basically three types of relevant backgrounds:
- You are still in college and are just starting your senior year. Or you’re even younger.
- You have been out of college working for over a year but have not yet entered business school and have no plans to do so in the near future.
- You have been out in the real world for several years or more now and going to business school is a real option. Or perhaps you’ve already been.
If you’re not from one of these backgrounds (e.g. you are already a senior and it is past the fall recruiting season), it’s best to put aside dreams of banking for now because it will be very difficult to get in. I’m just being realistic and telling you upfront what most would not.
If you’re still in college, your best bet by far is on-campus recruiting for investment banking internships or full-time positions. Apply to every single position for any type of banking job available and make sure your resume is good enough to get selected (see next section). Have friends in i-banking? Contact all of them and forward your resume. But at this point you’re more likely to get in via recruiting since most of your friends are still in school.
If you’re out of school and want to transition over from another job, you’ll have to depend on recruiters and networking to break in. You should use your school’s alumni network, contact anyone and everyone you know in the finance industry and also talk to headhunters at finance-focused recruiting firms such as Glocap. When talking to all these people, it’s especially important to get your story straight because their #1 question will be why you want to switch in now. Your story is a 3-5 minute pitch on your background from college to now and why you’ve realized your calling in life is investment banking, despite not doing it initially.
If you’ve been out of school for a long time (more than 3 years let’s say), your best bet is going to business school to transition in. The longer you’ve been out the harder it will be to claim that you really wanted to do i-banking all along – if that were really the case, why are you just now trying to switch in? Going to business school lets you position yourself as being the expert in some niche (technology, marketing, publishing, media, etc.) related to your previous life experience and then say you want to move up and learn about “the business” of said niche. While I think this logic is questionable, recruiters eat it up.
What if you don’t match one of these backgrounds? Give up right now and stop dreaming. Just kidding. It’s still possible to become an investment banker but the process will be more roundabout.
Landing The Interview
Once you have a recruiter willing to speak with you or someone on the inside who knows you, you need a solid resume to stand out and actually land an interview.
The investment banking resume serves one purpose: to catch someone’s attention for at least 2 seconds and get them to say “yes” to interviewing you. Don’t get emotionally attached here or spend days trying to improve it, because all the wording changes you make are useless: no one at an investment bank will spend more than 2 seconds on your resume (unless you are a hot girl and attach a picture, I mentioned banks were male dominated and chauvinistic, right?).
When we reviewed resumes of people we would look for 3 things: 1) previous finance experience 2) previous industry experience (we were in an industry group) and 3) something interesting. If you had at least 1 of those we would probably not toss the resume away immediately. When I say “previous finance experience” this is a pretty broad category – something like accounting or consulting would also qualify, and sales might even work as well. Basically we just want to see that you haven’t just been a traveling bard for the past 5 years, because you probably won’t like sitting in a cubicle.
You should spin everything on your resume to make it sound more business-like/finance-like/related to banking. And if you have absolutely no work experience that can be spun into this, I recommend coming up with hobbies related to investing or stocks and then positioning your work experience as the “interesting” or “industry-expertise” part of your package.
How To Bankify Your Resume
“I’ve been getting a lot of tips on how to write it, mostly from my staff. They really seem to be up on this stuff. They tell me I have to use the active voice for the resume. You know, things like “Commanded U.S. Armed Forces,” “Ordered air strikes,” “Served three terms as President.” Everybody embellishes a little.”
-President Bill Clinton, White House Correspondents Dinner, April 29, 2000
And that’s exactly what you should do: embellish a little. You want to shape your resume to emphasize working with financials and numbers and leading vs. following. Here are a few examples of resume makeovers:
Industry Background
-Software Development Intern, Cell Phone Company
Developed cell phone applications for collecting demographic and user/revenue data in a team of 3 and investigated new web technologies. Presented findings to CEO.
This doesn’t exactly scream finance, now does it? In fact, it screams “nerd” to me. Let’s see if we can improve this….
-Technology Consultant, Cell Phone Company
-Recommended use of new web technologies and appropriate budget to CEO.
-Designed applications for analyzing demographic data and optimizing revenue per user for mobile software.
This second one is better for 3 main reasons:
- The title. “Technology Consultant” sounds more related to finance and corporate jobs than “Software Development Intern,” which sounds more like a shorts-and-t-shirt type job. People scan resumes VERY quickly and often only look at the title for each job so it’s important to get this right.
- It sounds like you had a higher-level position than just programming – “design” and “recommended use” imply this. These are also exactly what you’ll be doing in banking – designing presentations and recommending a course of action.
- You dealt with money or financial matters. From this description someone could ask you how you sized up the market or thought about the budgeting process. While not directly related to banking, these are both more relevant than describing the design or implementation of a product.
Research Background
With a research job you need to show that you developed expertise in a particular niche and that this expertise also extends to understanding the economics/financial matters of a particular area. Here’s an actual example from a friend’s resume that I revised:
-Research Assistant, Cleantech Group
-Worked directly with Professor [x] to perform data collection and analysis of cleantech industries, including ethanol, solar cell, module and wafer manufacturers.
Ok, so he learned a lot about… solar cells. I’m not led to think that he would be a great investment banker from this. I gave it the following makeover:
-Research Assistant, Cleantech Strategy Group
-Gathered data on the ethanol industry in the US and analyzed performance of specific ethanol companies and the industry as a whole. Specific characteristics examined include firm management, history, financial performance and value of IP and technology assets.
-Performed data collection on solar cell manufacturing companies and analyzed financial performance and production methodologies.
-Tracked individual companies and determined which to focus research on based on financial metrics and qualitative analysis of fundamentals.
In this example you might argue that I made up stuff that my friend didn’t actually do and greatly embellished the truth. Guess what? With something like this you have to, and it doesn’t really matter.
Bending The Truth: Why It’s Ok
Bending the truth in this situation is acceptable because your interviewers won’t expect you to know the answers to advanced financial questions. At most with this type of entry they might ask you what metrics you looked at, what the typical range was, and to explain a bit about the financial workings of a solar company.
You could research this for an hour and come up with acceptable answers. The other reason why bending the truth is ok is that your interviewers are highly unlikely to know more than you in this situation. Unless you’re applying to a CleanTech group (of which there are very few so far on Wall Street), this is a risk-less gamble. Besides, what I wrote above sounds a lot better than the vague “data collection and analysis.”
If Bill Clinton can serve 3 terms as President, so can you.
Hope For The Best
Once you have created the perfect investment banking resume, you’re ready to submit it to everyone you’ve been talking to and all the recruiters you know. Spread your net WIDE especially if you do not have previous banking experience. These applications are very random and there is no downside to applying to as many places as possible.
One thing I didn’t mention in these resume tips is what to do with previous, actual finance experience. I think this should be pretty obvious, but basically you want to discuss each deal or project you worked on in as much detail as possible and shorten everything else on your resume to make room for this previous experience. Nothing else really matters if you have a previous investment banking internship, for example, so leave it on but abbreviate greatly.
For more on resumes for those who have previous finance experience, see my guide to private equity resumes.
Also if you really need resume help, check out my investment banking resume review service.
Landing The Offer
“And there is no such thing as a no sale call. A sale is made on every call you make. Either you sell the client some stock or he sells you a reason he can’t. Either way a sale is made, the only question is who is gonna close? You or him? Now be relentless, that’s it, I’m done. “
-Jim Young, “Boiler Room” (2000)
So what do you need to close? I’m not going to give a complete list of questions to expect here because other sites already have plenty of those. What it comes down to is proving you:
- Burn The Midnight Oil
- Don’t Shake The Jello
- Want To Be Gordon Gekko
Can you do these 3, or if not at least pretend you can? If so, you will be able to nail your superday interviews.
Burn The Midnight Oil
“Alright, I’ll do it. But do me one last favor, will you. Can you give me two hours? That’s all I ask man, just two hours to sleep before tomorrow. I suspect it’s going to be a very difficult day.”
-Raoul Duke, “Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas” (1998)
No, you’re not going to get those 2 hours of sleep, and especially not if you ask for them like that. You must convince your interviewers that not only do you not need any sleep at all, but that you would never ask for any either.
More than just claiming you “work really hard” you need very specific stories here. When I was interviewing for these jobs in my senior year of college I discussed my experience working at a big company and how I regularly put in 100 hours a week and lived at the office toward the end of my internship there. We were under a massive time crunch to get projects up and running by the end of the summer, so we had to sacrifice a few things. Sleep, hygiene and social lives. The exact sacrifices you make in banking (ok, you probably shouldn’t mention the hygiene one).
What are some good stories to show how much you worked?
- Startups or starting your own company: what could possibly be more work? Not even banking.
- Taking leadership of a large project that takes several months to complete: carnivals, sports events, international science fairs, mud wrestling matches, it could be anything as long as you can articulate how much you worked and how you always felt like you were dying.
- Working 2-3 jobs at once and having to multi-task repeatedly. This lets you hit the multi-tasking theme and the working a lot theme.
If you don’t have a story I recommend that you make one up or exaggerate sufficiently to come up with one of the above. If the only times you worked really hard were during Finals Week or for a few days at a time, come up with something better.
Often times in banking you’ll be killing yourself for weeks at a time or more so come up with something that’s at least this long in duration. Besides, if you really never have gone for weeks on minimal sleep what makes you think you can do it now?
Don’t Shake The Jello
“To succeed as an analyst…. DON’T SCREW UP!”
-VP to my friend at bulge bracket training this past year
As a junior investment banker, your most important duty will be checking numbers and not making mistakes. You may think this is a waste of time but I’ve seen countless occasions where someone screws something up in front of the client and everyone ends up looking stupid. As with showing your interviewers that you can burn the midnight oil, you need specific stories here to really make an impact and stand out.
It would be ideal if you were an open heart surgeon or astronaut in a previous life. Unfortunately if you’re reading this right now you probably have neither of these experiences.
Assuming that I’m correct and neither of the above applies, the way to show your attention to detail is by emphasizing that whatever you did was used by real, paying customers or read/viewed by a lot of people. Having wide exposure implies that you had to get your stuff right. Which is again exactly what you need in banking.
An example of how to tell this kind of story:
“I ran a web site about getting into college and common questions that students and parents might have, from my sophomore year til now. It started off pretty slowly but after awhile we built up an audience of 1,000 readers a day. As editor, I spent hours checking all the material we had for the tiniest of mistakes and errors before making anything public. There’s nothing that damages your credibility as much as careless mistakes. Parents especially notice this. Early on I published an article with a few glaring mistakes and received a pile of email from readers pointing this out. From then on I made sure to triple-check everything, paste it into Word and print it out and re-check it multiple times and ask friends to look it over before posting anything. With such a wide readership I can’t afford to make mistakes and now I require all my writers to do this prior to me even reviewing their work.”
This is perfect because of the following:
- Admits that you did make a big mistake once but learned from it and are now super-attentive to detail.
- Shows that you are in a position where mistakes cannot afford to be made or your business suffers.
- Adds in a touch of leadership theme near the end by mentioning in passing the others you worked with.
If you have nothing like this, make a list of every single organization you’ve been in and every single project you’ve worked on over the past 3-4 years. Bending the truth is ok; outright lying is not. Pick the one thing you’ve done that is most applicable. Add in some of my description from above as necessary.
If you want to work at top groups (e.g. the former UBS LA) this is critical. If you want those investment banking bonuses, you can’t shake the jello.
Want To Be Gordon Gekko
“I am not a destroyer of companies. I am a liberator of them! The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.”
-Gordon Gekko, “Wall Street” (1987)
Yes, greed is good. Even if you’re not quite Mr. Gekko himself, you should be able to convince me that you’re actually interested in finance. This sounds elementary but you’d be surprised how many people don’t do this. You will be asked about industries, companies and markets you’re interested in. Here’s an example dialogue to show the points you need to emphasize.
Interviewer: “Tell me about an industry or market you’re interested in.”
You: “I really enjoy following the alternative energy industry because it is up-and-coming and no one really knows how things will play out yet. Within the industry, there has been a lot of activity lately in the solar cell manufacturer sector, driven by technological breakthroughs that make solar cells more cost-effective as well as favorable government subsidies in Germany and Japan and major budget commitments by the Chinese government.”
Interviewer: “So were the any alternative energy companies you personally invested in? There’s been a lot of IPO activity lately, right?”
You: “Yes, there have been a lot of IPOs lately… but I think most of them were overvalued and riding on hype alone. After looking at the landscape, I personally invested in [xx solar company] a year ago. I looked at their financial performance compared to the competition and despite growing at 50% year over year, on par with others, and having 10% profit margins, also on par with the industry as a whole, they were trading at a discount to their competitors. Their P/E was only 30x rather than the 40-50X that others had and their EBITDA multiples were 30% lower than their competitors as well. It seemed like a bargain.”
Interviewer: “Interesting… but there must have been a reason why they were valued less highly than the competition.”
You: “I did some research into that… the main reason was that they came in below earnings expectations in the quarter just before I invested, and announced expansion plans for new facilities at the same time. Investors balked and questioned why they were spending more on CapEx and product development when their margins were falling.”
Interviewer: “A valid question. So why did you not see this as a serious weakness?”
You: “I did some research of my own on growth vs. profitability for solar cell manufacturers, and I found a much stronger correlation between annual stock returns and growth compared to returns and profitability. It seemed investors were focusing on short-term results instead of thinking long-term and looking at other companies in the industry. It is a nascent, high-growth industry so you’d expect growth to matter more than cost savings.”
There. Now unlike Gordon Gekko, you’re not using insider information to boost your gains. And you’re probably not making millions a day on your investments.
I’m not saying this is a perfect response, but it does a few things correctly. For one, it shows you’ve put some thought into this stock pick and can explain in simple terms the qualitative and quantitative reasons for investing. Candidates often give weak responses to this sort of question, saying they liked the management team or product or something else. That’s nice but you have to mention something about the financial metrics and how it compares to the competition as well. This is a finance job after all.
One thing to note: don’t mention anything about wanting those high investment banking salaries. Yes, wanting money is good but be sure to frame it correctly and don’t be so direct. Plus, your investment banking analyst salary won’t even be that great on a per-hour basis.
But What About The Finance Questions?
For the finance questions, please consult the M&I interview guide. The level of technical detail you get asked about will depend on your background – someone with finance internships or other experience will get a lot more questions than someone from a liberal arts or engineering background, for example.
Recommended Resources:
- The 200 Investment Banking Interview Questions & Answers You Need to Know
- Investment Banking Resume Editing Service
- Investment Banking Mock Interviews
I’m curious, do you recommend saying flat out “I want to make a lot of money” or maybe slightly more subtle, “The lifestyle is quite appealing to me”? I find in some positions (e.g. sales at a corporate gig) they want employees who are “hungry” but frown upon people who come out and say it. I wonder if it’s the same in banking.
To Blue Horseshoe, my take is: Try to project a strong sense of professionalism.
Don’t lead with your golddigger-ness or with your “subtle” line since it’s false and sounds kinda dumb since there is not much “lifestyle” except an unhealthy one. Instead, as the author suggests, lead with your interest in finance. A professional wants to get down to business and serve some clients and build a career. I.e, you want to understand how capitalism works and how companies succeed or fail as codified in the language of finance, a la Mr. Gekko.
Lead with your passion for finance… and then you can throw off something about how you would make more than anyone in your whole entire extended family has ever made in a year. That’s optional. Actually, if you try that, let us know how it goes. It’ll be worth a laugh at least.
I would agree with Proud Ex-Analyst here – senior bankers would definitely find it weird if you said your long-term goal was to be be a humanitarian or volunteer. But you don’t want to say you want to make a lot of money either (even though everyone does and most are in the business for that very reason).
If you show them that you are driven, professional and want to learn and advance quickly, this implies your desire to earn money as well and they ca infer the rest.
Is there any chance you could take a look at my resume and give me some tips?
I found this site through another forum (dealing with monkeys), and I’ve got to say I really like how you present things in a humorous but real manner.
Two questions:
1) I interned for one of the Big 3 automotive companies in the US, and my title was “Special Tools Financial Analyst”. Now, my initial reaction when seeing this was, “Wow, this name is kind of out there.” However, I do know that it sticks out. As someone who is recruiting for I-Banking, would having “Special Tools Financial Analyst” on my resume hurt me in that people will think I’m a tool (like the Technology Consultant you mentioned in this blog), or will it pique a recruiter’s attention because it’s so out there? Should I just stick with “Financial Analyst”?
2) What is the best way to immerse yourself into industries or markets? I joined a Banking organization at my school, and having an interest in some type of industry was one thing they really stressed because it showed one’s passion for finance. I am a Wall Street subscriber and have a variety of other resources under my belt (Vault, WetFeet, Factiva, etc.), but I don’t know where to start. Are there sources other than the one I’ve laid out that you would recommend?
Hi Joe,
Glad you enjoy the site. Here are some responses to your questions:
1) Personally, I would go with “Financial Analyst.” Subconsciously recruiters will identify with that more because that is what ibanking analysts are – financial analysts. While “Special Tools Financial Analyst” definitely stands out, I would go with the standard title.
2) Aside from the sources you mentioned, I would check out related blogs that cover your industry. These can be a great source of information – the only downside is that some industries (e.g., natural resources) are not as widely covered as something like technology where seemingly every other person on the internet has a blog.
A follow up question:
How important is stock knowledge? I really wasn’t until recently (October) that I became interested in pursuing an IBD career. As a matter of fact, it really wasn’t until September that I decided to drop Premed and really focus on Business (Finance, Accounting).
To be honest, I haven’t followed any stocks. I know the general ups and downs of the market, but I would not be able to follow in Gordon Gekko’s footsteps.
Should I start looking at stocks now? Will it be that important considering that I’m doing IBD rather than S&T?
Thanks.
Hi Joe – I don’t think your knowledge of specific stocks is important, but you do need to show an interest in finance to have a good shot at landing a job/internship. People (including myself) often recommend stocks because it is relatively easy to research them and speak intelligently.
That said, if you have some other related interest in finance/business you could speak to, that would be fine. But if not, I might try to learn about 2-3 stocks reasonably well so you could demonstrate some interest in finance in your interviews.
Hi, I have a question that might be a bit out of the norm.
My situatuation: I am currently 33 and worked for 6 years at MCK/BCK/BAIN (Project leader at the end). For 1.5 years I am doing independent consulting now for diverse clients (banks, media…). As an independent I earn roundabout 500 k USD/year in salary/profits working around 180 days a year (9.00 to 18.30)….but stil I am not completely satisfied professionally / businesswise…
Here comes my question: What do you think are my chances to land a job that brings me 1mm+ for example in PE, HF, IBanking? I don´t have direct connections to front office people…so what to do??? Or shall I simply stick to my current situation (good money and lifestyle, but not enough to retire in some years…)
Your insights would be very welcome…
THANKS!
Hi there MyWay,
I think the biggest problem with you getting one of those jobs is that you seem far more independent and entrepreneurial than the typical banker. Even though bankers like to say they’re entrepreneurial, in reality they’re very different fields and typically there’s not much crossover.
While you could potentially get a PE/HF/IBD job that pays $1MM a year, there are a couple problems with this:
1) It will take 5-10 years to reach that level.
2) It’s still only twice as much as you’re currently making.
3) Even though it’s twice as much, you’re going to be working more than twice as much. A lot more.
Sure, at the high end you can earn a lot more than $1MM, but most people do not make it that far and it is very, very difficult to make obscene sums like $50MM per year.
My suggestion would be to find some way to turn your consulting business into a product model rather than selling 100% services. That way you can get a lot more time-leverage, earn more money by expanding into other areas, and even take on some consulting projects if they pay high enough.
Hope this helps!
Hey there,
I will be using your resume review service over the weekend. But before I do that, I am curious to know if you do not have that many contacts in the business, do firms consider people who send their resume’s through the website. Some firms actually give a recruiter email, and other’s have you post it to the website. If its not one of the bulge bracket firms, is it adviseable to call the firm and ask for the name of the recruiter? I know this is not the most effective way, however, if your network of bankers or recruiters is not that big, what other choices do you have. Any feedback is much appreciated.
Hi Akash,
I would not send your resume through the website – firms don’t really look at this. Personally I would go through alumni, or if you don’t have many alumni in the field, just call the firms you’re interested in.
But yeah, in general I would not email a resume unless you’ve already spoken with someone over the phone or in-person.
This is an interesting article. I graduated with a Computer Engineering degree about 3 years ago. Currently, I work as a technology consultant with the sales team to provide solutions for a major auto company. We analyze their current enviornment and processes and then present options to our customer in becoming more efficient or potentially increase their revenues with better products/services.
I’ve been living in Detroit, and am interested in making the transition into full finance/banking, or more quantitative-based jobs.
I am currently waiting for the wife to finish law school in Ann Arbor; she has 2 years left. Any advice on getting a job in this industry now, but with the intention to move away from Michigian to Dallas/Houston?
Thanks
Hi Josh,
Currently it’s very, very difficult for anyone to get hired because of the downturn and economy and all. Your 2 best options are either going to business school and “re-branding” yourself like that, then using recruiting there to get into finance, or going to a smaller bank or hedge fund and using your quantitative background to break in.
Luckily, if you do have to wait 2 years for your wife to finish up law school, the economy should be in much better shape by then or at least starting to recover.
I would use alumni networking to see if you can find leads at firms outside the Michigan area in Dallas/Houston and then focus on smaller banks and hedge funds (will like your background).
Good luck!
Love your blog, one of the best out there….I’m currently a rising senior, considering FT employment at boutique firms and have had experience in ibanking/consulting/accounting….and some modeling experience as well.
My question is…would this be an appropriate answer to Why Investment Banking?
a) The idea of working on a team and eventually being at an MD or VP level and being able to work on deals/mergers that can affect an entire industry interests me
b) Not only is banking a career that interests me, but I also feel that the skill sets that I’ve gained up to this point are aligned with the banking as well (experience in consulting/accounting/ibanking)
Would this fall into the “good answer” category? Or is there a better answer that I could come up with given my experience up to this point …Thanks
Hi Mack,
Thanks, glad you like my site.
I think (b) is fine to state but I would be careful about mentioning (a) – you may want to instead say something more along the lines of, “Wanting to do work that affects the entire economy and feel like what you’re doing really has an impact” vs. working at a normal company, where the impact is often not as readily apparent.
It can be dangerous to say you anticipate being a VP/MD one day because no one in college really has a clue if they’ll make it that far.
Inquisitor, this is one of the most helpful articles I’ve ever read on acing a banking interview. I was hoping you could answer a quick question I’ve had.
For most behavioral questions such as Why Banking…What motivates you…Give me 3 strengths… How long would you advise keeping your answers to?
I feel that last semester I may have dragged on my answers for a little bit too long during interviews.
Would you say 1 minute for each answer is enough time? Or should you talk for a little more?
I realize this totally depends on what your “story” is…but as a rule of thumb…how long should your answer be? Is 1 minute too long? Thanks a ton.
Hi Dan,
I would not go on for too long on those answers… 1 minute sounds about right. If you speak non-stop for longer than that they will probably stop paying attention to you no matter how good your story is so I would keep it brief.
Hi, I really enjoy this site! Thank you so much, you are a great help.
I have a quick question, if I am an athlete who plays my sport at a D1 school and am on scholarship and my sports team is a top 5 team in the country does that help my chances or atleast seperate me from the rest? How big of an impact does athletics play in recruting for an M&A summer internship and/or analyst position?
With athletics being part of my life and college career, how does that come into play regarding my GPA? Can the GPA be lower than a student who focuses solely on academics?
Thanks!
Alex: Athletics help somewhat and will help separate you from others, but your GPA should still be above a minimum threshold… if it’s above a 3.0 you’re probably fine but any lower than that and you’ll have some difficulty getting ini.
Hi.
I must say, this site is so informative and helpful, keep up the great work.
I feel as if I have a unique situation. I’m currently a college student, going into my sophmore year this fall at a community college in my area. From there, I plan to attend a regular 4 year university and keep my major in Finance. Now, How the hell do I start even making a resume, When I have no previous work experience. I tutored at a tutorial center, and I plan on opening a tutorial center with my father within 2 months. What can i put on a resume to impress the big guys?
And on another note, I have a disability. I use crutches to walk, but I am very mobile. I can do stairs and all, I just need the crutches for balance. Is the investment banking world very phsysical?I mean, I’m tryng to get a job as a bank teller for now so I can add it to my resume, and a job as a teller isn’t physically intensive.
I just want to know your oppinion, will they take that into consideration, or do they really have the new guys running around all over the place for them?
Any help is appreciated, THANKS!
You need to spin whatever work experience you have into something attractive to banks… I would frame the tutorial experience as something entrepreneurial especially since you’re planning to start your own soon.
Bottom line, though, you’ll need more work experience to have a shot at banking jobs – typically they will want to see 2-3 internships.
Investment banking is not physical but you will have to go to meetings and such – I would note it on my resume and perhaps ask friends at banks what they think you should do.
Hey,
I just graduated from undergrad in May, was looking for jobs in real estate in the fall but now have been looking for full-time IB jobs. I missed the boat on the fall recruiting and the economy isn’t helping my case either.
I have had two internships before, both financial analyst positions with major public auto suppliers. I am currently interning for a middle-market IB & PE group in Detroit, but hope to find a full-time gig in Chicago.
Besides networking with family/friends and their contacts, what is the best way for me to break into the industry? Should I just email my resume around to companies or is that just a waste of time? Are there seminars/conferences I should attend or should I wait until next fall for standardized recruiting?
Thanks.
It’s hard to use standardized recruiting if you’re already out of school. Beyond networking with friends/family, I would also recommend:
1) Alumni networking
2) Cold-calling regional boutiques (works a lot better than emailing your resume around, always lead with a call).
There aren’t too many relevant seminars/conferences so I’d stick to these methods.
Hey Inquisitor:
Thank you for this site. I really don’t know how I ended up here at your site.
I just graduated with an MBA from a State University, and I have some work experience in Budget (overseas in Africa) and Client Relations here in the US.
Last week I passed my first interview with Goldman Sachs Operations Analyst, and they just called me for the second one…. hopeful the last one.
1st interview was just “fit, leadership and team player” type of questions…
I don’t wanna screw up on the “SuperDay”!!! I am trying to get the “hook” that you advised, I am also working on brain teaser and tech questions, but I think i need more than that….
What do you think are the most frequent questions GS people ask on the superday?
Thanks for your help.
I don’t think the super day questions are too much different from the ones in the first round… the main difference is the intensity tends to be higher and you go through more interviews. Goldman is very big on the “Why Goldman?” type questions since everyone wants to work there, so I would focus on having a very specific and personal reason why you want to.
Thank you Inquisitor.
I will try to follow your advise and I hope to get this job. I will let you know.
First I want to say thank you for this site. The information is valuable and I appreciate the style with which it is written.
I want to get into Sales & Trading. I do not have the typical business background but instead got a master’s degree in Health Admin. I currently work for a non-profit hospital in finance and after a year I am considering Sales. I have talked to professors in my university’s b-school, and of course they all suggest I go back and get an MBA. To me, this is thinking ‘inside the box’ and is advice I would have heard 50yrs ago.
Am I going to have to get an MBA if I want to get into Sales?
I am currently perfecting my communication skills by giving a ton of speeches to high level execs and large audiences. I was also a high performing track and field athlete in college, and I would think that should bode well for sales. I tend to think leadership is leadership, success is success, and sales is sales, regardless of what venue it occurs.
If I do get an MBA I will likely add a JD to it. What options are there in I-Banking with this dual degree?
I think it will be difficult to break into Sales & Trading with absolutely no business or finance experience… it would be one thing if you were still an undergrad but since you’ve been out working for awhile that makes it tougher.
An MBA would certainly be the easiest thing to do, but you may not even be able to get into top programs with only 1 year of experience.
MBA + JD doesn’t really add much in banking… might make you more desirable for positions like restructuring where knowledge of law is required but it’s not super-helpful if you want to do IBD.
If I were you, I would focus on networking and target your efforts at smaller firms – if you can tell a really good story about why you want to do S&T and have the appropriate contacts, you can still get into one of these firms.
This is a great site, very informative. Only complaint is that all those in-text hyperlinks makes me very unproductive at work.
Anyway, I think I have a special situation that deserves a separate post. I will be a sophomore next fall at the University of Pennsylvania, and I am double majoring in finance (Wharton) and biology (College) through a life science management program. Though corporate life sciences and health care management may be an option in the future, I am planning on going into finance immediately after school.
I am currently working at a nonprofit venture capital. However, I must complete a required science internship next summer, most likely at a big pharma company, before a business oriented one during my junior year summer.
My question is, do you think my dual major (and lack of a pertinent internship next summer) will either hurt or help my chances on landing a job (or a junior summer internship) at a bulge bracket? Do you think there is any way that my experience in biology may help me (are there any jobs that could put these skills to use)? Finally, will I have some explaining to do when interviewing?
Hi Ace,
I think the answer is “no” on all 3. Banks really don’t care too much about your major; work experience is far more important. Lack of a sophomore internship will hurt you a bit, but a good junior year one more than makes up for it.
Most relevant tactic for you would be to work in a biotech or healthcare group – you might be able to leverage your background or at least pitch yourself better to those types of groups.
I would focus on your interest in finance and whatever you do junior year when interviewing; your story will be simple – your school required you to do a science internship, but ultimately you’re interested in finance because of [insert reasons here].
Thank you for the answer. One more set of questions.
I just found out my business internship after my junior year must have some relevance to the life sciences. For instance, I would need to to join Goldman Sach’s Investment Banking in the Healthcare Industry.
This would leave me with only a handful of opportunities in the bulge bracket, correct?
How feasible is this to specify when applying for internships? Do you usually apply to specific industries, or do you just apply and they put you in a certain industry? Do you think my program, with its focus on healthcare and the second degree in biology, would give me an advantage?
I was also thinking about applying to some private equity groups, since I do know some students interning at them as a rising senior. Does this throw that chance out the door, or are there specific jobs within PE that could be related to the life sciences? It seems like the job title name just needs to have “healthcare” or “lifesciences” somewhere in it to meet the requirement.
Thank you in advance. I really appreciate your site and you have no idea how helpful you are.
Most banks have healthcare divisions so you could really go anywhere. Additionally there are some PE/VC firms focused on healthcare or life sciences as well. You have an advantage with that background. Application process really depends on the bank, sometimes you go to a specific division, sometimes you’re put into a generalist pool.
Most of the talk about reductions in ibanking jobs has focused on the cut number, not the overall job market (cuts make for good press). When it comes to the overall number of Investment Banking Jobs, however, we are seeing plenty here in the US. We are starting to see the movement overseas as the investment banking game becomes more international and the bulge bracket firms take advantage of off-shoring.
The Job Search Digest crew has been at the niche financial job market game for a long time. We’re pretty fired up about the latest and greatest service, Investment Banking Jobs Digest.
Investment Banking Jobs
And, yes, of course, Mergers and Inquisitions is in the recommended resources section!
David
I go to a big state school in texas and I am starting my sophmore year with a 3.5 gpa and I have a couple a questions 1)do I have a chance getting a i banking analyst job with a middle market firm at least and 2) I have enough credits to graduate early would look better for me to graduate early
1) Yes
2) No, better to get more experience
Loving your blog, it’s so informative and is helping me a lot! Just have one query,
I intend applying for a position in a European bank that allows for city rotation when the application process begins soon. However I don’t have any contacts in this particular bank and was wondering how realistic my chances are of getting an interview if I simply follow the online application process? To have any chance of getting a call back, would you say it is necessary that at least one person within the firm is aware of my existence so to say and that I am submitting an application?
Very low chances of getting a call back unless you know someone or it’s a really small bank – you really need someone inside to fight for you.
Hi Inquisitor,
I recently finished an MBA with previous experience as a financial advisor at a major FI. My MBA was not quantitative in its teachings, but it focused on how to manage projects/products and innovation strategies for start-ups to become less likely to fail. I have contacts that can get me into back/middle office in Asia, with my MBA (2008) and bachelor in business (2004) will it be that difficult to break into sales/trading or should I look for a trading job first in North American where it may be more feasible to find a trading post. Many Thx!
I would definitely look for a front office role in North America first… shouldn’t be -that- hard to get in and you generally want to avoid the back/middle office no matter where it is.
I have a BS in Finance from a university that is considered not top tier. My grades dont really jump off the page either. I was wondering my actual chance of landing that ibanking job or do i even have a chance before an MBA or CFA? What would be the best route? Thanks
CFA = useless. MBA is definitely the best route. If you have poor grades / did not go to a good school will be very difficult to get in otherwise.
Hi Inquisitor,
I am 24 years old and will be graduating this spring with a B.S. in finance. I have a ton of work experience, but the most relevant to I.B. is three years in an accounting position. I have been working full-time during all of my college years. I did live overseas for two years, hence the reason I am 24 years old. Since I have been working full-time I have not been able to focus on studies as much as others might. My GPA is a 2.6, which for most people is horrible, but when you work 40+ hours a week it’s sometimes difficult to attain that 3.0 level. My question is will my GPA hurt me if I explain my situation? Also, I have a family member who is a good acquaintance with a branch manager at Merrill Lynch. What’s the most professional way to approach a position when you have an inside connection? Keep up the great work on the blog. Thanks!
You have no chance unless you get in via a connection so I would leverage that, just say you’re interested, want to know more about banking, enter the field, meet up with him for coffee/informational interview, pass along your resume.
i’m about to gear up for ibd internship recruiting and, with the market how it is, am worried about bank’s no-offering their summer interns. how bad to numbers get when the economy turns down? and what happens if you land an internship, but don’t get an offer at the end of the summer? do you bang down doors again? or are you essentially shut out of the industry . . . forever?
With things the way they are right now, bulge brackets basically aren’t hiring – so I’d focus all your efforts on smaller firms.
Not the end of the world if you don’t get an offer – again, you’ll likely just have to go smaller… any place of the same size will have obvious questions over why you didn’t get an offer.
Dear Joe,
First and foremost I would like to thank you for this very informative and helpful article. Secondly, I have a question relating to the IB field and my own personal dilemma. Coming out of HS, I had a low GPA, (3.1), due to a focus on sports and landing a scholarship. I ended up landing a scholarship and due to personal issues and injuries transferred 3 times while in college. I ended up having to stop playing due to my injuries and ended up in a lower caliber school with a low GPA once again (2.9 GPA at Cal State LA). However, recently I have become very interested in cracking into the investment banking industry and am currently interning for a discount brokerage for the past few weeks (Scottrade). My questions are:
1. What do you suggest is the best way to give me a chance where I can land an internship/job at a top tier brokerage firm such as a ML, MS, GS, JPM, etc. I am currently unsatisfied with the type of work given at my current job (mainly customer service) and am looking at a job that involves more analysis.
2. I am also curious if landing a job at a discount brokerage firm that provides both advice and service (Charles Schwab, TD Ameritrade, etc.) would better on my resume than Scottrade.
3. If I am unable to land an internship while in college, what steps can I take now to give me the best possible chance in the future.
4. Also, I am of 100% Chinese descent, and earned multiple athletic scholarships to play collegiately in a sport regularly dominated by other races. What, if any, leverage will this give me on my resume or interview process?
I am currently full of energy and ambition and will do what ever necessary to get where I want. Thank you for your time, and I apologize for the amount of questions asked. Any insight provided would be greatly appreciated.
L.T.
1) Don’t even try for the top firms, with a low GPA and coming from a non-target you have no chance. I hate to be harsh, but that’s the truth- the economy is in too poor a state right now, ML doesn’t even exist anymore and everyone is getting fired.
Use alumni networking and networking with friends/acquaintances to target smaller places.
2) No difference.
3) Build a strong set of contacts in the industry.
4) None. Maybe some bonus because of being athletic, but in general they don’t care that much.
Hi inquisitor,
I find it hard to convince myself that breaking into i-banking without prior relevant financial experience is possible in my case.
Actually I work in the sales dpt. of a large mining company but want to to work in a sales&trading position (specifically, base metals trading would be my first choice). My only assets – I may say – is my heavy academic quantitative background – never used at work though – and my communication/negotiations skills in both spot and long contracts internationally.
Would an MBA from a top school “legitimize” my goal to completely shift careers (I am actually european targeting a US top b-school)? I will be 32 when I graduate (perhaps quite old to enter this field as a novice)…
What strategy would you recommend I follow ?
Thank you very much for your advice
I would definitely go for the MBA, that is your best strategy if you haven’t had previous experience.
Thank you for your prompt reply. I appreciate it.
Thank you inquisitor,
Its hard for me to accept the harsh reality of what you’ve explained. But what is the chance if I were to get an MBA from a top 10-25 school?
Chances would improve significantly, but make sure you go to a school at which banks actually recruit! Otherwise you aren’t helping yourself at all.
Inquisitor,
I have just started my junior year at a school that is “good”, but definitely not a target school. While it is possible to land an IB job in NY, it is certainly more difficult.
To the point- this past summer I had a management internship at one of the country’s retail giants. I will be doing everything I can to obtain an IB internship in NY next summer. Do you have any advice on how to bankify a retail internship on my resume? So far I’ve emphasized on analyzing margins, profits, etc.
Thank you very much.
Emphasize specifics and results, and put everything in “Project” format:
-Summary sentence
-Project Experience:
-Project #1
-Project #2
-Project #3
For more, see my resume editing service.
Dear Inquisitor,
Thank you for your valuable advice.
I have the following question:
I am thinking to apply for Finance entry-level programme. As it was discussed earlier on the website, there should be some preparation regarding the industry and recent market trends. Finance is a broad area. Could you suggest what aspects I have to pay more attention and which examples better to provide (recent regulations, the general problem in the market etc.). The other area of concern is how difficult it is to break into finance dpt with IB in comparison with the others?
I would appreciate your response.
Thanks,
Katrin
I would focus on recent market news and/or any recent deals… the items you mentioned are good to learn more about.
Finance departments are much easier to get into than IBD.
Dear Inquisitor,
After reading all the Q&As in your blog, I think I am probably the inquisitor (among all those posted) who has the most difficulties getting in the Banking/Investment industry. But still, I hope you don’t mind giving me your advice.
I am 29, a business English teacher in Hong Kong. My undergraduate major was Journalism but the GPA was not impressive at all (just 2.7!). However, I became strongly interested in the financial market about 2 years ago and I kept reading global financial news. I dream of a career shift to banking/ finance. Now I am planning a graduate degree in finance or economics. I don’t mind you being harsh… just want to know… how can I make my dream come true?
Thanks a ton!
Hannah
I would strongly recommend going to a top business school that has a lot of banks recruiting at it. That is a much better idea than doing a graduate finance degree.
Hey Inquisitor,
First let me thank you for such an informative website.
I got my master of science degree early this year and have been working at a mid-sized US IB for 3 months, located in Asia. Projects I worked on were primarily cross-border pre-IPO private placement and M&A. My clients are mostly VCs and local PEs. I love the finance industry but as a mid-sized house we don’t have access to those big projects such as IPO or big LBO. Most that we do are around $30m in size. I strongly hope to land a new job at one of the bulge bracket IBs, preferably PE department or Investment Banking department.
I have a network of friends and alumni working in IB industry.
Here are my questions:
1. What do you think is the best way to crack into the bulge bracket? Do you think it a good idea to try the campus recruitment starting in a month in my region? I am still new to this industry anyway. (I got my current job through alumni referral)
2. What is the best way to state my motivation to change job? I know I cannot say better pay or more decent company profile. Can I say I want to serve bigger, more important clients and conduct larger, more complex projects? This is true for me.
3. Working at a mid-size IB means I, as an anlyst, have to bring in new business rather than financial modeling or writing pitchbooks all day. Do I need to emphasize this in interviews?
As a non-native speaker of English my writing might be poor. Thank you for your patience!
1) Alumni networking, networking with contacts.
2) Yes, bigger/more complex is good to say.
3) I would definitely bring this up, but make sure you know something about modeling anyway.
Dear Inqisitor,
I graduated from a state school with a 3.7 GPA in Political Science and History 2 and a half years ago. I’ve worked as an interpreter for the government since graduation. I originally wanted to go to law school but decided against it. I want to go into banking and finance. Since I have no background I decided to attend college again and get another bachelors degree since it only takes 2 years and not four. I’m getting this one in Finance. It looks like I’ll graduate with a 4.0, although from a lesser known school. Afterwards I was thinking of working or maybe going for my MBA. What would be my best course of action to try to get into the IB field?
Personally I would work for a few years and try to network your way into a smaller place. If that doesn’t work then you can go for an MBA – just make sure it’s at a top 10 school.
Great Blog! Full of useful and honest information.
I would like to know what route you would recommend I take to break into investment banking. Is it still possible??
Here’s my story to date:
I was originally a premed major, but wasn’t really ready for college. So after 3 years of bad grades and skipping classes I left for the Marine Corps. When I returned (1997) I started working full time and decided that Medical School wasn’t my calling and changed my major to Finance. My overall GPA (including my premed classes) was pretty bad (2.7), but I never got a grade lower than a B on any business or finance class. Since I already had a fulltime job before changing majors to finance I have not been working in finance, instead I’ve been working in sales for the last 11 years; first with Carnival Cruise lines and, for the last 8 years, with a floor covering distributor. Oh, and I’m no spring chicken at 34 years old. Looking for honest and realistic advice. Do I still have a chance or should I just consider becoming a financial planner?
I would go to business school ASAP. If you do not get into a top 10 school within the next year or so, your chances will be very low. If you can’t do that, I would just do something else in finance.
Regarding embellishing your resume, I refer to a post on WSO http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ive-been-fired-what-do-i-do
To what extent is it acceptable (on both GPAs and work experiences) and to what extent is it just outright lying?
It really depends on what you mean specifically… I’d need to see an example to tell you what’s “acceptable” and what isn’t.
In general, something like rounding a 3.44 GPA to 3.5 is fine; rounding a 3.1 to 3.5 is not fine. You have to use your judgment there.
Making up a false position title or saying you did front office when it was back office is not fine. Slightly embellishing what you did and making it sound better is fine, as long as you can back it up in an interview.
hello, my name is jerrell grove and i am a freshman in college and i am majoring in finance and minoring in economics. i have always dreamed of being an investment banker for merrill and lynch. i was just wonderin what shoud i do going through college to make sure that i get into the field. i am in the honors program with a high gpa. and i was wonderin if majoring in finance and minoring in economis was a smart choice? i just want to make sure my future career is some what garunteed although i know thats never garunteed. but if you could please give me some advice on what i should do that would be grerat. also where would a good graduate school be good to go to for investment banking?
Biggest help to getting in will be having an internship in the field. BTW, nothing is ever guaranteed in real life. No matter how good you think you are or what you’ve accomplished, there are 0 guarantees – look at how many bankers have been laid off this year. You generally don’t go to grad school to enter banking…
ok so then what should i do after college, get my mba or work then get my mba and then what should i go to grad school for?
Work and then MBA is the best strategy. You shouldn’t go to grad school.
Inquisitor thanks alot for your all of your advice and insight. I have a question not particularly along the lines of IB, but figured you could help me out. I would like to land a job in sales/trading specifically within a hedgefund. I have no prior experience in trading but did exercise a summer internship at Merrill Lynch which required me to basically to be a numbers guy checking accounts and statements for errors. I am currently a soph at a respectable University and play a Div 1 sport. My question is how do I approach these HF managers or anyone within the firm given the recent stress and turmoil they are in. Also coming from so little financial experience is there room for me to express my strong passion for working for a HF and what is the best way to go about this. Thank you
I wouldn’t do much differently despite the poor market right now. You still use the same basic strategy of expressing your passion for the markets and trading, and perhaps use the poor market as evidence that you are really serious about it – you’re not just “riding the wave” so to speak.
In terms of expressing your passion, I would try speaking about your own interest in the markets, investments you’ve made, and anything else you’ve invested in (business ventures, etc.).
Dear Inquisitor,
What future do you see for quantitative trading compared to investment banking? My understanding is that in the past few years, the traders have been more profitable than the bankers. Except now “derivatives” is a dirty word. Do you see the financial industry stepping back from quantitative trading to focus on the tried-and-true banking practices? Finance will grow more quantitative no doubt, but the time horizon for this process may not sync with my professional window. For someone who is quantitatively and computationally literate as well as a type A male, do you see more prospects in trading or banking?
I recently graduated with a master’s degree in computer engineering from a target school. I am currently employed by a software startup, and the risk/reward ratio is not suiting my temperament. I also prefer wearing business suits to jeans, so I’ve realized finance is for me.
Trading is definitely easier to get into with that kind of quant background.
I don’t know how great of a future it has given everything that happened as a result of derivatives/mortgages but areas of trading outside those should hold up fine.
If I were you I’d definitely focus on trading.
Thank you Inquisitor for your thoughtful response.
I’m currently applying to Gtown & SAIS (Johns Hopkins) for a masters degree in international relations, focused on economics. I have an undergrad degree in finance from univ of AZ with a 3.6 GPA and have been working in marketing for the past 4 years.
What are my chances of landing a job in finance following a masters at either of those schools? They both tout having graduates go to GS, MS, and other firms but I’m not sure whether these are people with prior finance experience or if it’s possible to transition into finance with such a degree. I’d like to work in the finance world for a few years in emerging markets (hopefully start as an associate equivalent) before moving to the World Bank or IMF.
What are your thoughts? Any tips?
I mean it’s a bit hard to say with what you’ve said… I know Georgetown is a target school for a lot of banks so you have that going in your favor.
Marketing work will neither hurt nor help you much – I think regardless of what the recruiting environment is like, you’ll have to network quite extensively to have a good shot at getting in as well.
Appreciate the insight…thanks
I’m 40 years old and have worked in engineering in the biopharmaceutical industry for the past 18 years. i’m finishing an MBA in May 2009 with emphasis in finance. I’ll probably graduate #1 in my class. Unfortunately, it is not a top school (university of colorado at Boulder).
I had no idea I wanted to go into finance when I started the program, but I have enjoyed my finance classes so much I am now strongly considering a career change (if I had known I would have gone to a better school (I had a 750 GMAT, so I probably good have gotten in somewhere better).
Do you have any advice for my situation? There are a couple of small boutiques in Denver which would be nice for me because I like this area. I would be willing to move for the right opportunity.
I think I can “bankify” some of my experience.
-Paul
I would focus on smaller places and work on networking as much as you can. Honestly it’s going to be extremely difficult just because of your situation, but going small and tapping your alumni/professional network is the way to go.
The good news is that if you can advance quickly enough, it wouldn’t be that odd to have a VP/SVP who’s in his 40’s so you do have that going in your favor.
Dear Inquisitor
Thanks for a very informative website, best one i’ve found about IB. I would like to know your oppinion on my current situation. What do you think would be the best option to get in to IB?
My background:
23 years old, no previous work experience because I was a professional soccer player. Currently studying in a polytechnic (university of applied sciences) in Finland.
I think my current options are:
1. graduate in 1 year as bachelor of business administration, find some kind of finance relevant work for 3 years and then go to a top MBA school. –> Get in to IB.
2. Drop out of polytechnic, get in Helsinki school of Economics (best school in Finland) get a BA in Finance in 2.5 years, pray for economy getting better and apply for an analyst position in Bulge Bracket banks.
Either one works, to be honest. I think #2 is probably better assuming that you can get in, you can afford it, and things improve over the next few years.
Thank you for your quick reply.
I’m positive that I can get in and education in Finland is free for citizens.
HI Inquisitor,
I agree with past posters that this site has been great. I am about to graduate from a top finance undegrad school after 3 and a half years. I have almost 2 years of back office experience at a top asset management company. However my GPA is only 3.2 and I did not focus on recruitment as much as I should have. With the market conditions being the way they are, what would you recommend. 1) keep trying to land an IB job for this year 2)Look into sales and trading 3) starting studying for the GMATs and go back to get an MBA.
I would recommend spreading your net wider than options 1 or 2 and considering any type of “front office” job available. Don’t go back to business school without significantly more experience first – there’s no point if you do that.
Don’t stay strictly focused on IBD / S&T – consider anything finance-related that is front office.
Hi Inquisitor,
I am 28. I’ve an IT degree and have been working on the field for the last 6 yrs. It’s been a while since I’ve been contemplating in changing a career. I know for a fact that I am higly interested and would enjoy working in the Financial world. I’ve finally decided to do my MBA. But, my question to you is:
- Considering my background, what are the potential opprotunities like in Investment Banking?
- Eventhough it is obvious that attaining an MBA improves my credentials, to what practical extent is it?
Your advice is most appreciated.
Well, it won’t be AS easy for you to get in as it would be for someone else who has had more business experience but it’s still do-able. I’d say focus on networking from even before you get there, and make absolutely certain you get into a top 10 program, otherwise it’s not worth it.
Hey Inquisitor!
Thanks a lot for this outstanding resource! I have been reading your articles for a couple of hours now, and I found it extremely helpful and enjoyable. Thanks a lot for the great work!
Currently I am amid my application process for an internship in IB.
I am 22, a B.Sc. graduate of the top university in Ukraine (with a major in International finance), and currently pursuing M.Sc. in Finance at Frankfurt University in Germany. So far I’ve had 2 internships with German niche-strategy consulting companies, and 1 with a (middle-size) Financial advisory firm in Kiev.
a) You mentioned in one of your articles, one should not touch upon High School in one’s resume. I did an exchange year – as an American Councils grantee – in the USA (and graduated from a Ukrainian school). Would it make sense to mention that experience on my resume?
b) I was also a German Government grantee and did 1 year of exchange studies in Germany (within my B.Sc. studies). Should I skip this fact as well, and just briefly state my B.Sc. degree & institution I obtained it from, as well as my M.Sc. degree major/institution?
Do this kind of exchange studies experiences make a difference in the selection process?
c) Do I have a shot at landing an internship with top IBs in the US or UK? Or should I aim at smaller banks for now?
Any comment will be highly appreciated!!!
a. Yes, the exchange is fine to mention. It’s also more common to include secondary school on European CVs.
b. Sure I would include the Germany experience too, it definitely helps.
c. Hard to say without knowing more of your background / seeing exactly what you did, but I would strongly suggest doing both and casting a WIDE net so you apply to both large and small places.
Thanks a lot for the insights, Inquisitor!
With regard to a) it is true that in European CV’s (especially in German ones secondary school is included, as are many other things that are “ignored” in the American counterpart.. such as trivial (MS Office) pc proficiency, for instance, etc..
Uh secondary school is ok for European ones but I would still not mention anything trivial such as “Proficient in Word” that’s like saying, “Proficient in breathing.”
Yeah, I made sure to drop all that to fit evertyhing in 1 page
I’m not quite sure though whether I should drop the following:
a. Teaching Business English at a Lang. School in Kiev (4 months as a part-time job)
b. Organization of university conferences / participation in a debate club..
Shall I just all this ’cause it’s definitely not finance-related?
Thanks for your help!
I would not include unless you have extra space
hey, great column with a lot of good advice.
I’m in my first year of school at AEM at cornell university right now (AEM is the accredited business program). My end goal is to land a job on wall street as an investment banker. What double major would you recommend for this?
However, my situation is a little more complicated as I have to major in something within my college (the college of agriculture and life sciences). therefore, the two ones I am thinking about are information sciences and bioengineering. What would you say is the best major I can choose to complement my business major that will help me in landing both internships/jobs and graduate schools.
Thanks so much.
Either one works, it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference if you already have a business major. I would pick whichever one requires less work so you have more time to network / do activities and internships.
thanks for the advice.
I graduated May 08 from a “not even close to target” school. I have a BS in Finance and a GPA that isnt that good. I am the first person in my family to graduate from college and didnt really know what to expect so I pretty much partied my way through. I wasnt informed early enough of all of the things that i should have been doing while in college such as internships, extra studies, etc.. I have a chance to be an actuary and had heard that the first 4-5 test will help you move into IB. I can also be a branch asst at a bank close by. What would you advise? I know I need to do some cold-calling to mid market firms in my area, but is it realistic for me to think that I can still get onto wall st? I have no experience, am stuck at a crossroad, and would appreciate any help you can give me.
Thanks,
-V
You can do it (had a friend in a similar situation) but you need to do a ton of cold-calling and networking, and it will probably take around a year to make the transition. You should focus exclusively on regional boutiques and maybe a few middle-market firms at this point – not even worth it to go after the larger places.
Hi, I want to get into Investment Banking but not sure how. I do not have any realted IB experience. I recently graduated in May 08 with a BS in Finance and Accounting with a GPA of 3.5 /4.0. With the economy going downhill, what are my chances of getting my foot in the door and How can I get my foot in the door? What steps do I need to take or follow to head into the right track? Please help me out, I would greatly appericate it.
Thanks.
Bhargov
You’ll have to do a ton of networking… I would start by making a list of everyone you know in finance and related fields, researching the industry, and reaching out to them to start discussions.
Great blog!!!
Question – I want to break out in IB but my undergrad was in Political Science at the University of Pennsylvania. However, I am torn between pursuing an MBA/concentration in Finance or getting an MS in banking and financial Services Management. Which degree do you think is more valuable?
Thanks!
Well they’re entirely different things… an MBA helps far more but you need 3-5 years experience first. MS in banking won’t help much.
I am in my junior year at a small university in Georgia and majoring in Finance with a concentration in Economics. I graduate in December of 2009 with an Adjusted GPA of 3.59/4.0. I have a passion for Entrepreneurship and would like to either get into VC or IB. I am 30 years old. Was wondering what the best route to get into VC or IB would be. I had thought of getting an M.S after graduation in Financial Engineering and later on trying to get into a top 10. Particularly Harvard, to get an MBA in Finance and Entrepreneurship. What is the best option to get into VC or IB? The only work experience i have is a Business i have been running for 2 years while in college. I need help
Thanks
You need to do a ton of networking, forget about further degrees… with your background you need to develop a network ASAP and stay focused on that. Reach out to alumni, former employees/co-workers/clients and anyone imaginable. An MBA is useless without experience, and the degree title doesn’t matter at all.
I am a BBA (top 20 university, and top 5 undergrad business program) approaching the summer of his sophomore year. I have no finance experience, however, was able to get a once a week internship at a large wealth management firm over the summer. I plan to do the internship while going to summer school and working at a paying non-finance related job. Do you think that this will be a good sell to recruiters for junior internships? Is there anything that you can recommend?
Thank you
It will definitely help – I’d suggest trying to find something that’s a little more intense in terms of hours and such. But aside from that type of internship, the only thing that’s better is a banking/PE one but that is difficult at your age.
Fantastic post as usual, thanks for the insight! I go to University of Texas, which is “technically a target school” and am in the MS of engineering program. I’m eligible (according to careers services and your site) for undergrad analyst roles at IB’s (I think?). Because we’re not quite ivy or virtual ivy’s (stanford, chicago, etc) are they more selective with my school (& Norte Dame, USC, etc.) or do I have an equally as good chance staking up against candidates from ivy’s? I know of people getting picked up for UBS m&a etc, but they are kind of few and far between. Should I shoot more for a boutique instead of bulge?
P.S.: I did the MS in Engineering because my ultimate goal is VC, which is pretty standard background for most, and cause my undergrad wasn’t a target school. I’m already in it so its too late to do something, but is my MS going to hurt me with bulge banks?
Thanks for the input!
They are definitely more selective, so aiming for smaller firms is a good bet. The MS degree itself won’t hurt you, it’s more an issue of the school + not appearing finance-related on paper.
What are some other things I can do to stand out? I’ve had two internships at commercial banks and helped start the investment club here, and a BA in Econ (from a non target school). Should I just really try hard at networking right now? Will making a good impression with some of the recruiters at the fairs do anything?
Have some interesting activities outside school/work, study abroad, start a company or organization, get some really unusual experience like winning a bungee jumping competition.
Networking a lot will help a lot too so don’t forget about that either.
Great, you mentioned in one of your articles that as long as your school is “targeted” by a certain bank, all you have to do is (assuming you have all the other resume boosters) is upload your resume and they call you for a interview, is this correct?
Not anymore – it’s now significantly more difficult and that strategy doesn’t work as well.
I have a question.
Currently I am a student at Glasgow University in Glasgow in Scotland in my 2nd year doing Accountancy and Finance. I was wondering is this degree sufficient enough to get into investment banking as I am interested in doing Investment banking…
Also are the working hours the same in America as it is in Scotland or London???
That’s fine, but keep in mind you’ll need some solid internships too.
Working hours might be a bit less in Scotland/London but it’s still not close to a 9-5 job.
I have a very unique situation. I graduated from a state school (definitely not a target school) with a general social science degree, although some work in economics. My GPA was low so I decided to give school another shot. My school happens to have a great accounting program so I have re-enrolled to take accounting classes for my CPA. I was going to finish a masters there but after officially applying at a couple different places I got into University of Michigan. Although it would be a masters in accounting, the classes are completely shared with MBA classes, and can be tailored to concentrate in finance. I am also sitting for level 2 CFA this june.
My original accounting plan was NYC public accounting in financial services, maybe M&A advisory group, and then eventually break into ibanking (through top MBA if necessary). My question is would I have a shot at ibanking directly out of the Michigan accounting program? And even if not immediately would it help me down the line? It is substantially more expensive. Also, could doing a year of MBA classes, even for a MAcc degree, potentially limit my chances of getting into a top 10 MBA because of repetitiveness?
I think it would be tough to get in directly out of an accounting program… might help a little down the road, but the best option would probably be work experience in a TAS group followed by an MBA. I don’t think the year of MBA classes would limit your chances much if at all.
Thanks for the quick response! One last thing…
So assuming that accounting for a few years then MBA is the plan, do you think it is worth it to fork over 40K to go to a top accounting program (within a top b-school) or should I stick with the state program and save some money? The benefits I can see to the top program are that obtaining a good GPA there will help to offset my bad undergrad GPA for b-school admissions down the line and it could also help me land a job directly in M&A advisory instead of audit. Also, sharing accounting/finance classes with MBA students could be great networking, as well as the alumni networking possibilities. What’s your take?
-Thank you!
No probably not worth it I would just try to save money unless you can afford it…
You have a great site going here. I just have a few questions.
I am currently a 20 yr old sophomore at a small but very good academic college in pennsylvania majoring in finance and minoring in economics. My GPA is 3.7/4.0. I am looking at obtaining my Masters in Finance at Villanova. I have worked at a large bank as a teller for a summer and this summer I have a merchandising internship with the US Golf Association. Will my experience as a teller and my interning with the USGA be attractive to IB recruiters or are they looking for more professional work experience? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
It’s ok but they bias heavily toward more professional-type roles.
I’m about to graduate with a undergrad business degree from a non-target school. I had past intern experiences in a major pension fund and a major European Bank. The latter one was a front office job with a pop trader. The given state really decreased my chance of landing an offer after graduation ( everywhere is freezing headcount).
I’m thinking of getting into a grad school. Should MBA or Master of Finance be more helpful in this case if I want to get into IBanking? What if is trading then?
Thanks a lot.
Do not do an MBA without at least 3 years work experience. If you want to postpone recruiting and try again later, the Master’s degree is your best option. Only issue is if the market doesn’t improve much you may not stand a much better chance of getting in.
I am a senior currently looking for an internship. I will be graduating with a degree in Finance from a non target school in december. My resume has sales experience for the most part as well as a start up experience. I plan on getting a Masters in Financial Engineering after i graduate. My intention is to get into Investment banking. How would a Masters in Financial Engineering help and what type of internship positions should i look for. How many hours would i have to work at these internships. I am currently running a start up. Should i put that aside and focus more on the internship in banking ? Is a masters in financial engineering helpful to me ?
Thanks a lot.
You would still be going for Analyst positions, only an MBA would let you apply for Associate internships. 80-100 hours per week as a summer intern.
The degree would help somewhat, but #1 key will be getting finance experience so I would focus on that and cut back on your other commitments… start small/local, and go from there.
Hello Inquisitor,
First of all, I just want to say you’ve got a great site going here.
Okay, so I am a freshman in college, technically a sophomore by the number of credits i have. I am majoring in Biology and Business with a concentration in Finance, but I am not at a target school or top school. I currently have a 4.0, am in accounting society, finance society, and students in free enterprise. I keep up with financial markets and trade stocks. I currently do not have any finance work experience, just teaching experience for teaching SAT classes. I graduated #1/608 in high school, do you think i should mention this in any interviews for internships, or is this kind of irrelevant? I currently have not taken any of my business courses yet, so do you think i can still land an internship in finance? I had an interview with Merrill Lynch recently and it went okay, but I felt like the interviewer focused on my lack of financial coursework. I want to get into IB, and hopefully markets rebound by the time i am done with college. Do you think marketing internships would help, or is that in an unrelated field? Any comments by you are appreciated. Thanks for your time.
high school is almost irrelevant. You need to get some relevant experience or courses ASAP. Marketing would help marginally (more so than, say, engineering), but not as much as something in finance or even something in sales.
hi im i am in my 3rd year towards my bachelors degree. i want to get into investment banking…i am little confused that should i go with economics
as my major or finance..i prefer economics over finance…but if i do my grads in economics & minor in Finance then will i get a chance to work as analyst in i-banking..
???????
Either one works, but finance is more helpful in terms of preparing for interviews etc.
Hi,
After researching ib for a while I have decided to pursue that career option. My fear however is that since I will attend northwestern it will not allow me to have many opportunities on wall street. Would going to northwestern be worth my money or should I just go to nyu cas? At northwestern I would be doing the mmss program. http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu
NYU is probably better for finance, though you will have to compete with all the Stern kids as well. I know students from Northwestern who have gotten in but it’s definitely not easy since it’s less of a target school… so NYU is probably a better bet if you’re set on finance.
Hello. I am finishing up my sophomore year at the University of Delaware. I currently have a 3.67 GPA in Finance with an economics minor. Its not really a target school but top has a 60 business program.
I was wondering what are my chances at receiving a IB job at a mid- large sized firm?
Also what would be a good route to improve these chances?
lastly would an one year MSF be a good route to take straight out of school or will I be okay without this?
It depends largely on what kinds of internships you have.
You don’t “receive” a job, you fight for it and you may or may not get it in the end… the non-target school will work against you, but if you can put forth an aggressive networking effort and land solid internships, you stand a good chance of getting in.
MSF would only be marginally useful – I would focus on an extensive networking effort instead.
Hey,
Great advice. I will be a freshmen in a top finance program next year so I know it is early for me but I am scared for my prospects of an internship in ibanking because of the current economic trends. To all the recruiters out there, what is it that you look for from a freshmen applying for internships?
I ask because “experience in finance” is something most of them would not have. Do you look at what schools they went to, what clubs they joined, their GPA, the finance related clubs they joined, or what?
Also, are there specific classes that would help me land this internship? For example, in looking at Microsoft’s finance internship position page, I see that they want somebody experienced in risk management so I would probably want to take a risk management class to qualify for this position.
Another criterion Microsoft looks at is: “Demonstrated analytical and problem solving skills.” Any ideas as to how I can achieve this in my first year of college?
Thanks so much!
Ricardo
You should browse through the archives because I’ve written a lot about this before. Try to get informal / unpaid internships working somewhere, and take it from there. No one cares about clubs/activities, though GPA and school name are important.
Hi,
Thanks a lot for this website. I have been following this for quite some time and have found it to be very resourceful. I had some questions and was wondering if you could help me out.
1. I will be a senior this fall and am interning for the Wealth Management division of a major investment bank. I have contacted a great number of people in the investment banking arm of my firm. I was wondering what else I could do to be a better candidate. Do I keep networking with more people here even though I have about 10-12 good contacts?
2. I on one of the posts that you said that rounding off a 3.44 to a 3.5 is ok. I have a 3.87. Is it ok to put 3.9 on my resume especially if the banks ask me for my transcript during an interview?
Thanks.
Jojo.
1. You get diminishing returns after that. More is always better, but 10-12 is a good number. I would not go crazy with it.
2. Yes.
Thanks for the response.
It would be great if you could help me out with a few more questions.
1. All through your articles the general theme has been that ‘fit’ get you the job as opposed to ‘technical’ skills. Do you see that changing in the current economic senerio considering that a lot of companies have to cut costs (including training budgets)?
2. You have said before that once someone gets the interview, status of undergrad college/GPA doesn’t matter anymore. Is that true even now (considering that this is an employers market). I mean, wouldn’t you, as an HR, be taking a greater risk in hiring a non-target school grad (like me) as opposed to a Wharton/Harvard person (if the Wharton grad doesn’t end up doing a great job, an HR can possibly cover their rear end by pointing to the fact that he/she was from a stellar school with a good acedemic record)?
3. Lastly, in this market (and I realize that exact numbers are difficult to get) how many (if any) people do you think will be hired from non-target schools without a banking internship? In other words, being from a non-target (but still pretty good) school and not having a banking internship (I have 2 internships in Wealth Management in a bulge bracket investment bank), what are my chances of getting hired? I have a decent number contacts and have a competitive acedemic record (3.87 GPA).
Thanks again. I really appreciate your help.
Regards,
Jojo Mukherjee.
1) No. Interviews are more technical, but how much they like you still determines who gets offers.
2) I think I said that GPA no longer matters once you get interviews. Status of undergrad will always play a role and you will have to defend yourself coming from a lesser-known school (see recent articles).
3) I don’t have exact #s, but I would guess maybe 5% or fewer out of 1,000 or so new bankers hired each year are from that background. I’m not sure how many apply from your background, though, so I don’t know the probability.
Hi,
Thanks for the answers. I was wondering if you could tell me something. In terms of exit opportunities from banking into PE, what group is most likely to help make the transition easier? Is FIG a good group to be in if I am looking to go into PE?
Thanks.
FIG is a good bet. M&A, LevFin, Financial Sponsors are also good. These days M&A and FIG obviously have the most activity though.
Do Honors or Phi Beta Kappa help at all?
Not really, most academic honors mean relatively little as long as you did well to begin with.
Hi,
I am 35 yrs old and doing my parttime MBA in Fairleigh with major in finance will be completing end of this yr. Currently have a job profile as AVP at major financial institution but in IT operations. I was wondering if there are any chances of me getting into IB. investment is my passion and i am even planning to take Chartered fin analyst certification. Will it help to switch my career. i am really getting real good opportunity in current field but due to my passion with finance i want reject that opportunity. please advise.
Thanks,
Raj
It’s difficult with that background. To make the switch, you will need to target much smaller firms and probably move down from the VP-level – for someone with your experience it is extremely difficult to switch over from the back office to the front office at the same bank.
Thank you for the quick response. i even want to move down. is there a possibility to get foot into smaller boutique’s? will taking the Chartered fin analyst certification will have any leverage? and learning financial models from wallstreetprep will have any leverage?
Thanks,
Raj
Those types of classes/certifications generally do not help too much. The best way to move is extensive networking, focusing on smaller firms and cold-calling as much as possible.
Thank you!! I want to give it a shot before giving up, i do not want to give up without trying.
Thanks,
Raj
wow, I hate to burden you with another “what if” question after all your previous posts… but I am a little nervous about my situation.
I am a rising junior to a top 15 University, majoring in Economics, with a 3.7 GPA (3.8 major). I’ve taken accounting and finance classes, as well as some pretty analytical economics classes. I’m also involved in a finance/investing type club at my school. The summer after my freshman year I interned at a ML wealth management branch, where I was basically introduced to many of the workings of finance, though I wasn’t able to work on legitimate projects partly due to my knowledge limitations, I guess, and some legal restrictions.
This summer, I’m interning at the financial branch of the city of Frankfurt, Germany, with the intentions to further my German language capabilities, and learn more about finance. However… my work here is unexpectatedly “non-financial,” in that I’m mostly learning about the financials of public services, and not private finance. So I’m basically learning about tax policies, and public accounting.
While the work here is interesting, I’m worried that my lack of tangible “real financial experience” will hurt my chances of landing an IBD summer internship for the summer of my junior year… if I’m asked how I benefited from this Germany internship, how could I spin it to my advantage? I’m worried that these two summer internships may look useless, in comparison to other applications who may have had more valuable financial work experience… thanks for any advice.
Say you learned a lot about the culture and German companies while there, and position yourself as the “Germany expert who also knows finance.” You’re still at a big disadvantage next to anyone who’s had an IBD internship, so extract what was useful/memorable from your internship and then take it from there.
hello
thnks a lot for info
i am 2008 chemical engineering graduate presently in oil and gas.want to get into investment banking….thinking of giving cfa l1 this december…..would it help…
if not can you tell me way forward to get my step in the door…
thnks advance
Business school or networking. CFA is useless for investment banking. Since you’re a 2008 graduate, a ton of networking is probably the better bet – see the recent podcasts for guidance on that.
Hi,
Thanks for answering our questions. I understand that places like Lazard and Evercore are considered in the same league as MS and GS. Is Houlihan Lokey just as prestegious?
Thanks.
No, they’re a step down but in this market you cannot afford to think about prestige.
Hi,
Thanks for the answer. I just wanted to clarify something. When you say ‘they’ are a step down, do you mean Lazard and Evercore as compared to MS and GS or HL as compared to Lazard? Thanks.
MS, GS, Evercore, and Lazard are all about the same – however GS/MS probably provide better exit opportunities, or at least access to larger PEs/HFs.
HL is a step down from MS, GS, Evercore, and Lazard in that you won’t get access to the same types of recruiters and opportunities.