How to Break Into Finance with a Low GPA, No Finance Experience, and Without Going to a Top School: 4 Mistakes to Avoid and 3 Strategies to Embrace
It’s one of the most common questions/complaints I get…
“All your advice is focused on people at top schools! What about the rest of us!”
“You assume that we have 4.0 GPAs in finance programs!”
“What do I do if I’ve been a door-to-door insurance salesman for the past 10 years?”
Never mind that advice on topics like networking applies to everyone – and that we’ve addressed how to get in from different backgrounds several times before, with more coming up in the near future.
Today I’ll share a few stories from readers who work at banks and are responsible for interviewing potential new hires – and a story from one reader who recently did exactly what the title suggests:
He got into finance with poor grades, no finance experience, and did it coming from an unknown school.
Here’s how he did it…
What NOT to Do
Let’s start with a few stories from readers who are working in investment banking right now and interviewing potential intern and full-time hires.
Read each of these, and then do the exact opposite of what the person in the story did.
1. Potential New Hires at a Boutique: Back to the Basics
Here’s a portion of an email I received from an Associate at a boutique investment bank who has been interviewing potential interns recently:
“It seems unbelievable, but most of the resumes we got were poorly formatted and had typos. What are they thinking? Also, it was shocking to me how many people had no idea about basic business and accounting concepts like enterprise value and working capital. Even more shocking was how many students claimed their ignorance was understandable because their university did not have a business program.”
Lessons Learned: Go back to the basics. If your resume has typos and you can’t explain enterprise value, your chances are pretty low these days – we’re not in 2006 anymore.
Despite how competitive it is at bulge brackets and how few places are hiring, it’s still worth remembering that the majority of applicants don’t even get the basics right… and at true regional boutiques, you run into even fewer interviewees who know their stuff 100%.
It goes back to a point we made months ago: don’t overestimate the competition.
2. The Guy Who Couldn’t Take No for an Answer: Avoid “Jack Bauer”-Style Networking
This story comes from a friend who works at a boutique outside the US. This was an in-person story, so I’ll quote my friend as accurately as possible:
“I had one guy who requested an informational meeting with me… so we met for coffee once. I could tell that he didn’t know that much, and during the meeting he was trying way too hard to impress me rather than just being himself. I told him we weren’t hiring anyone at the moment, but he kept pressing me for more meetings.
Within 2 weeks, he had emailed me about 5 times asking if I was free for more informational interviews. By the 5th email I basically stopped responding to him.”
Lessons Learned: Persistence is good… to a certain degree. You have to read your contacts and decide who likes you, who is open to further discussions, and who doesn’t want to have anything to do with you.
Remember, a networking ninja is stealthy – but emailing someone 5 times in 2 weeks is the complete opposite. Rather than subtly extracting information from your target, you’re more like Jack Bauer torturing a suspected terrorist to get information on the next attack.
Subtlety comes with practice and there’s no quick-fix solution: the best advice is to get out there and start talking to people. If no one responds favorably, re-think your approach and ask your friends and anyone you’ve spoken with for honest feedback.
It’s probably too aggressive to contact someone more than once every few weeks unless you know him/her very well and have extremely specific questions.
Even in a recession, a BIG part of going from networking newbie to networking ninja is determining your “most valuable” contacts and acting accordingly.
3. The “Finance Expert”: Tell the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But the Truth
In these times it’s tempting to claim that you have a ton of finance experience to stand out – and that temptation is especially strong if you don’t have top grades, a banking internship, or an Ivy League name on your resume.
But bankers can detect that type of deception instantly, and will always call you out on it – as in this story from a friend who just interviewed one candidate:
“Had a guy who told me he has ‘built financial models and performed relative valuation such as trading comps and transaction comps.’
I asked him to walk me through how he spread those comps… and then he just stumbled and started going off on a tangent for 5 minutes without actually answering the question. Not knowing is one thing, but his biggest mistake was lying about it.”
Lessons Learned: Don’t lie, especially about something that the interviewer can easily determine is a lie – whether it’s “fluent in Mandarin” or “knowing how to spread trading comps.”
It’s one thing if you’re exaggerating your role in a “company you founded” (with your friends in a backyard in high school) and the facts are harder to check, but when it’s something concrete you can’t afford fabrication.
Only bend the truth when you won’t get called on it and when it benefits you in some way.
4. The “Steep Learning Curve”: Wait, Why Did You Want to Do Investment Banking Again?
It’s amazing, but some interviewees have no idea why they’re actually applying to investment banking jobs. I get at least 1 email per month asking what the “best reason to say you want to do i-banking” is… and here’s the truth:
Think for yourself about why you actually want to do it and use that as your reason.
And make sure you have a good reason – unlike the guy below (another story from a friend at a boutique)
“Another guy told me he wanted to get into i-banking ‘because nowhere else would provide a steeper learning curve where he could learn the most in two years.’ He kept rambling on about learning… but I had no clue WHAT he wanted to learn – so I asked him if he wanted to learn i-banking, or learn how to learn… he was TONGUE TIED.”
Lessons Learned: Your “story” and answer to “why i-banking” (or “why PE,” “why consulting,” “why anything”) are the most important parts of any interview – and if you have bad answers, you’ll never make it past the first round.
Saying something generic like “I want to learn” CAN work but you need to elaborate and say what it is you want to learn specifically – and then tie it into your background and what you’ve done before.
A tech consultant saying he wants to understand the big picture of the industry when applying for tech banking makes sense… but saying that you just have a lifelong passion for learning as your only reason doesn’t.
From Failure to Success: Getting in With a Low GPA, No Background, and No Top School
No matter what your grades and education are like, you absolutely need to have your “story” together and have good answers to the basic questions.
But if you’re not coming from a “4.0 at Harvard” background, you may be tempted to exaggerate and be overly aggressive when networking, both of which can hurt you.
Here’s how one reader avoided all that and got into finance despite having a low GPA, no prior experience, AND after he had already been working full-time in another industry:
“I know that in one of your recent posts a reader had mentioned that they wanted to hear a story about someone who came from a non-target school, with a lower-than-average GPA, and no finance experience, who made their way into the industry.
Well, I am that person! I went to a small non-target college that no one has heard of, and got under a 3.0 there (though I got a 4.0 on the social scale!).
I’ve been working for the past few years as a tech consultant, though I also did some management consulting-type work.
I recently got an offer from a hybrid banking/consulting boutique, and did it by networking with an alum from my school who I cold-called. He was fairly high-up so it was a good decision to go to him directly.
During my interview process, rather than getting technical questions on accounting and finance, I was asked to provide sample work product showing my writing, presentation, and basic modeling abilities.
I know that’s not the norm at bulge brackets, but I think anyone applying to boutiques and hybrid firms should know that – especially if you have some full-time work experience, showing them what you can do (literally) plays a big role in getting offers.”
Lessons Learned:
1. Although he didn’t go to a target school with a strong network in finance, he used that to his advantage by cold-calling someone high-up and using the rare alumni card to get an “in.”
How many calls do you think someone like that gets?
Not many if he’s from a non-target school.
2. He leveraged his background by applying to a hybrid firm rather than a pure bank. By appropriately spinning his consulting experience, he made it sound like he was well-suited for the position.
And since it was a boutique, his chances were higher to begin with. Any type of hybrid consulting firm focused on restructuring and turnarounds is a good bet these days, because they’re one of the few types of firms still actively hiring.
3. There’s more than one way to impress. Especially for anyone working full-time and applying to small firms, bringing in examples of your previous work is an effective and often-overlooked strategy.
You have a big advantage over anyone still in school, because you’ve already proven yourself in another field – and you need to use that to your advantage.
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hello,
I am from Bangladesh.Having my last semester.But my CGPA is really very poor.I will end up with 2.50.I want to study in Canada (my undergraduate subject was electrical and telecommunication engineering).I am also not sure which subject can be preferable for me.Can someone suggest me any demanding subject along with the perfect university where I should get in for my Masters?
Things are getting tougher day by day as no one is replying me.I am really looking for your valuable answer.
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-major/
Hello,
I am currently interning at Goldman in their Legal, Compliance and Internal Audit Division, but now I have come to a realization that I would like to do Investment Banking. I have a 3.6 major gpa in accounting and a 3.2 overall. My overall is extremely low compared to the competition but recently (Less than a year) I have actually been diagnosed with Dyslexia and ADHD which is mostly likely the reason on why I struggle so bad in college and ended with such a low gpa. Do you think it would be beneficial to mention my condition on my resume to explain the low gpa or should I just omit my major gpa like I’ve done previously. Thanks.
Would not list that as it may just seem like you’re making excuses
Hi Brian,
short background: arrived to the US for college (dual citizen), recently graduated from a top three liberal school (the tree hugger one). I have a low GPA: 3.1 and ok Honors GPA: 3.5 (honors seminars-> upper-level double credit courses). I have NO finance internships under my belt. I got think tank (most recent), Research Asst. for a nat sci prof and envrmtl law assistant at a huge org.
I’m thinking about three possible scenarios:
A)I recently applied for an equity Research Associate position at a em mrkt boutique (highlighting my int background asset). I was thinking about getting my modeling experience there and after two years of networking like crazy try my luck at a small PE. Then MBA, then BB or bigger PE
B) small management consultancy firm -with great clients though- work my a** off to move up quickly and be involved in interesting stuff.. I talked to young consultants at the firm and they dont get bored at all. Then MBA, then mid-size PE (ppl with mngmt skills are sometimes welcome)
C) I study like crazy for my GMAT and GREs this semester. Apply to a regional masters at Ivy. In the mean time, I network like crazy and in the fall i do part-time internship at a think tank – so I dont have a blank spot in my resume. Then start the masters (one year.) Get better grades and apply to BBs. Then MBA.
Could you pls grade these scenarios from worse to best? I have some informational interviews coming with small PE ppl and I need to see whether I think of them as short-term or long-term assets.. I need to be strategic in terms of how much information I divulge. For ex, if I think of them as long-term contacts I will not tell them my GPA straight away (as I get more work experience, GPA won’t matter so I do not need to risk burning the contact right away).
Thanks for your time!
Di, you think way too much. Continue working on A, B, C and other jobs and see which ones come through. When you have firm offers, then you think. Right now its all in your head. Even if you don’t disclose your GPA right away, the PE firms will ask for them if they are at all interested in hiring you. Why don’t you just be honest and focus on selling yourself on other aspects?
Hello,
I’ve absorbed a fair portion of the site and think I know what to do and focus on while trying to break into investment banking at a major firm. However, I have yet to get into Ivy League school-finance as a foreigner, living in the Netherlands, working on mastering English theory before moving out. … Oh and after I’ve gone down a path of almost no return as regards to my school career and opportunities to at all get myself into an Ivy League school. Namely: back then during the first year of high school (age 12-13) I didn’t know anything and did not have the discipline to get myself to attend the highest level, which is required to get oneself into college. But, regardless of my current school results, I am highly suitable for college and I strongly believe I am/will be for investment banking as well. Contacting universities does not seem to ‘really’ help me. Therefore I’d like to ask what I can do to get myself enrolled into finance at an Ivy League school, given that I will have a foundation course (higher vocational education), which provides access to related education at college here, in the Netherlands next summer.
I can’t help you out w college admissions here but i’d say get your GPA up, get good SAT scores, good recs and good essays – plenty of college admissions services out there can help you. Good luck!
I have been an executive assistant for 5 years at a I-Bank / Commodities trading firm. When I was hired I didn’t have a degree. Recently I went back to school and completed a finance degree with a 3.2 GPA. I’m sure that my company only sees me as an executive assistant so how should I try to get a new position in Finance?
Assuming you’re going back to your same company and you’ve demonstrated your value there I’d..
1. Use my network of senior people (with hiring power) in the firm (presume you’ve built the contact base over the last 5 years)
2. Have a chat w them re your goals
3. Show them how you can add value to them, and how you have demonstrated significant value in the last 5 years.
I’ll also network with other firms to see what’s out there
Hello,
I hope you are well. I went to a very big green ivy league, studied economics and political science and got an “average” gpa (3.27). My resume gets interviews but i don’t seem to go past first or second rounds, are firms really not hiring or what would you say is the problem? Is my gpa not competitive enough or am I targeting the wrong jobs. Any suggestion would be appreciated.
Your GPA is the problem – even in interviews they still care about it especially in the first round. Also depends on your experience and if you didn’t do anything finance-related that will also be an issue. Some firms are not hiring, but plenty are conducting interviews and giving offers.
Hi, am Elinah, i live in Uganda and i recently graduated with a second class lower in B.Com accounting. B.Com is a 3 year course with 3 majors to do in your final year i.e accounting, marketing and finance. I majored in accounting but i didn’t get the marks i wanted. I did well in my first and second years, maintaining a second class upper i.e (3.79/5.0) but dropped to a lower in my final year i.e (3.43/5.0). Is this really bad for me? what should i do?
It doesn’t matter that much, if it comes up just say you did well overall and had one year where you didn’t perform as well but have learned since then, improved your performance, etc.
I am currently an economics major and a senior at a top 50 liberal arts school. I have a 2.5 overall gpa and about the same in my major as well. Is there anything I can do to make myself stand out?
Network and land yourself a finance internship
I am currently an economics major and a senior at a top 50 liberal arts school. I have a 2.5 overall gpa and about the same in my major as well. Is there anything I can do to make myself stand out? Do you think I will get a job or should I not even bother?
Hey there! Okay so for some background: I have a really low overall GPA (2.75), I am in my second year of university in Australia studying a double degree [LLB & BCom majoring in Corporate Finance, Investment Finance and Quantitative Finance + 1 Minor in Marketing]
Is it wise for me to apply for internships at the big banks (in Australia) or maybe wait for my GPA to (hopefully) rise? I have another 4 years left on my degrees and was hoping for some real work experience.
Thanks in advance!
Just apply and see how it goes. Of course you need to get your GPA up but you should still network and get an internship in the meantime
Thank you Nicole! :)
Anytime
Hi, I am did my undergrads in physics with a GPA of 2.0, and now doing a masters in engineering (GPA 3.9). Both at a top 3 university in Canada. Would my undergrad GPA eliminate my chances of getting into Finance at all (my goal is to get into asset management)? I am working towards getting some internships. Would you have any advices?
Not really I’d think because your masters is your most recent degree.
Hi! I’m a senior from a top 10 university in the US. I major in math, with a 4.4/5.0 GPA.
Since I’m graduating in June, I’ve been applying to jobs in the finance industry. But the problem is that most of the time, I do not even get interviews. I think its because of my lack of experience/do not have a big-name firm on my resume?
So what’s my best strategy? Crazy networking? Try to get winter internship? Apply for summer internship and try to get a job next year? Can you give me some advices on this? Thanks so much!!
Yes.
Yes. Network a lot…starting now. Email MDs. Send them your info. Network w people in your area, alums… I don’t know if you can apply for summer internships because some banks only want juniors.
Thanks for your advice! Yes, I noticed that some big banks only want juniors:(
If I cannot get a job in a big finance firm, what should I do immediately after graduation to enhance my chance for next year?
Do I start looking for small hedge fund companies/ small prop trading firms, or a big company in another industry, like software? Or even research?
Get a job in a second tier or boutique finance firm.
I don’t know where your interest lies so if you’re interested in trading – funds. If you’re interested in other industries – companies in other industries
Hi,
Thanks for your advices! I’ve started emailing my school’s alumni and applying to some hedge funds.
I still do not know what I really interested in. I just want to go out of school and see what the real world has to offer! I’m actually 2-3 years younger than most students in my year, so I do not know my true passion yet (stop making excuse! :P) Anyways, I would like to try trading!
I’m just wondering if working in a big-name firm in another industry (google? oracle?) helps more than working in a 2nd tier trading firm in getting a job in top trading firms like.. getco/jsc/sig? thanks so much!
It depends on what you want to achieve & where your interests lie. I’d suggest you to apply to jobs you find interesting, interview and see which ones you click w more. Once you land the interviews you can gauge which one fits you more & you’ll hv a better idea then
Hi,
I’ve been dismissed from one state school for academic reasons. After receiving an AA with low GPA (2.4) at a community college, I am now attending another non-target university to get my Finance degree. I am getting good grades in all finance major courses (major gpa 3.8), my cumulative GPA (3.0) is still low.
1. What matters more to the employers, cumulative GPA or the finance major GPA?
2. I assume what I need to do now is networking A LOT with industry professionals and try to get a finance internship? Is this the right way to go?
Thanks,
Dan
1. Depends on the employer. Cumulative matters but some only focuses on major GPA.
2. Yes.
How important is it to participate in school student and professional organizations (ie, finance/business related fraternities) Do employers really care about this? I am looking to enroll in a student managed investment fund course. Is this recommended? Please advise.
Thanks,
Dan
Yes.
how’s it going everyone. I am a recent grad from a top 50 school with a 3.0 gpa with a non-finance degree. I was also a member of a ncaa division I team. Since graduating I have been working in pharmaceutical sales but want to transition to ibanking for a multitude of reasons. How are my chances? Is networking the key?
Yes. networking key. look at second/third tier banks to increase your chances
Hey there,
First of all, thank you for this site in general! I’ve been reading up on everything I-banking that you have here and it’s all very interesting. MY question is twofold: should I transfer to a target school (I currently go to a strong engineering school with a not so hot business program. I am a freshman here, and I have been contemplating trying to transfer to a place more suited for banking (number one being NYU Stern).
Also, I know very little about actual I banking (I am a freshman, after all) so how can I learn more than I am reading about finance now?
Finally, I have a PWM internship in Atlanta for next summer with UBS. Will this help me, hurt me, or neither in the future as far as getting into banking?
Thanks
Jon
Yes – if you really want banking, transfer
Read our site – lots of useful info here
It will only help you unless your time can be better spent elsewhere on other IB internships (assuming you want to break into finance that is)
Is Bloomsburg University considered a super non-target school?
Yes, not a target school.
I’m currently majoring in Finance @ a non target state school. I want to get an MBA eventually. Should I also do a double major with Economics or is this unnecessary? Is Finance then MBA sufficient? Thank you.
Do you like majoring in Economics? If so, go ahead. If not, I don’t think you should.
Depends on what your goals are – You have to decide for yourself
I’m currently a sophomore at the University of Michigan Ann Arbor majoring in Econ. My gpa is horribly low right now (~2.0-2.1ish) because I had a rough first year for a number of reasons. I was just wondering what I could do to boost my chances of getting an internship, other than raising my gpa of course. Would it help to join clubs related to economics?
Join an investment club, trade your own portfolio, network with bankers!
I’ve been doing a bit of trading with my own portfolio since high school, though I didn’t pay much attention to it until the last year or so. Does my portfolio have to be doing well for this to help me? Also, how would I be able to work this into my resume?
You could work this info into your resume
My school doesn’t offer a finance or accounting major for LS&A students s
I’m sure you can take other modelling courses online or something
My school doesn’t offer a finance or accounting major for LS&A students so I’m an Econ major right now. Would getting a minor in statistics or applied statistics help my chances of getting into finance assuming I can raise my low gpa?
They will demonstrate your knowledge in Mathematics but might not necessarily guarantee you a job in finance
Hello, I am currently a Junior with a 3.2 GPA at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. I’m assuming since it’s not Ivy League that it isn’t a target school for IBanking. I am also currently applying for internships at a bunch of firms in New York and Chicago. Hopefully I get some work experience this summer, but if I don’t get an offer because of my low GPA I’m not sure which route to take. I’ve read the site and I think getting a Master’s in Finance would be the best option since an MBA without work experience is looked down upon. With that being said I don’t think I can get into a top Master’s program either with my GPA. Would it be useful to get a Master’s in Financial Engineering from RPI and then apply for analyst positions or does the name of the school matter that much?
Not a target.
Name of the school matters.
I’d suggest you to apply for smaller/second-third tier financial institutions and move your way up
So getting a Master’s in Financial Engineering from RPI, even if I don’t find a job, is not a good idea?
If you can’t find a job and can afford a masters go for it though it might not guarantee you a job in Finance
I’m a third year chemical engineer at McGill University (Canada) with a 3.5 GPA. Is this considered a target school if I want to work in sales and trading in NY after I graduate? And if I can get a sales position at a pretty good middle market bank, would there be a reasonable chance of getting an s&t position at a BB when I graduate?
Thanks in advance.
Not sure about NY but def a target in Canada
Yes
Thanks for your reply, Nicole. Oh, and one more thing: is it a good idea to take the GMAT now just so I can prove I have a keen interest in the industry? Because as an engineer, it seems like it’s a little harder to show my “motivation”.
Sure. You might want to consider taking the CFA. Yes our site doesn’t think its that useful in helping you land a job in IB, but it does demonstrate your interest in the industry. However, having the CFA on your resume does not guarantee you interviews. It just shows that you have an interest in finance/understanding investments. Registering for modeling courses would also help
I am studying at Simon Fraser University Burnaby B.C Canada. My major is finance, but my GPA is very low (2.5).I have two semester left to graduate. I plan to do a
volunteer and a club activity. I try to get in second/ third tier banks and then find a way up to big banks. Is Simon Fraser University considered as a target school in Canada? Do you have any other advice?
Thank you
I believe so. Gain finance internship experience and network intensively
Hi, thanks for all the resources and tips.
I was in global securities/custody for about 8 years. Then due to a move overseas I became a police detective for 5 years. Now I’m back in London and trying to break back into banking. I’ve ‘bankified’ my CV but it’s hard getting past gatekeepers. My skills are directly transferable, (analyst, project management etc as per military posts here) but one recruiter said because my experience was more than 2 years ago, she wouldn’t consider me! I have cultivated my network, but most firms have a hiring freeze and you’re in competition with thousands of other applicants with more recent experience. Any advice?
Network a lot. It is difficult esp given the current environment but hang in there. Also look at third tier/mid market banks.
What are some methods to go about networking? I am currently a junior at Pace University. I have the advantage of being in the city. I also currently have a finance internship, had many leadership roles, and am really trying to get the analyst position for summer with a large I-Bank.
Suggestions on how to better network?
Hang out where bankers hang out in NY. Go to the gym/clubs/bars they go to. Cold call them and set up interviews