From Canada to Hong Kong – A One-Way Ticket to Landing a Job in Investment Consulting?
So you’ve heard all about New York, London, Tokyo, Australia, Canada, Dubai, Germany, Italy, South Africa and even Pakistan, but what about Hong Kong!?
In this article, you’ll hear from an interviewee who went to a “non-target” Canadian university, landed front-office internships in Canada and is now working full-time in investment consulting for a top firm in Hong Kong.
Pretty impressive, but what’s in it for you?
In part 1 of this interview, you’ll learn:
- How to break into finance in Hong Kong – everything from applications to interviews.
- The key elements that firms look for in candidates.
- What you actually do in investment consulting (no, it’s not like management consulting!).
- And whether or not you even have a chance as a foreigner in Hong Kong.
Leaving Canada for Hong Kong: Breaking In?
Q: Let’s get started! Can you walk us through your background and how you ended up in Hong Kong?
A: Sure, I was actually raised in Hong Kong and moved to Canada during high school. I studied Finance at a “non-target” Canadian university, and, by the time I graduated, I had completed front-office internships at two Canadian Big Five banks.
I wasn’t exactly sure what I wanted to do, but was in need of a change. So I decided to go back to Hong Kong to take part in the “Asian growth story”!
Quick note: Canada’s “Big Five” are Canada’s 5 largest banks: Royal Bank of Canada (RBC), Toronto-Dominion Bank (TD), Bank of Nova Scotia (Scotia Bank), Bank of Montreal (BMO) and Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC). In Canada, they’re sort of like the bulge bracket banks in the US and they tend to work on bigger deals and attractive higher-profile clients.
Q: Wow, quite a decision! Did you have an action plan? How long did it take you to find a job?
A: It took 2 months to find a job from the time I landed in Hong Kong. I focused mainly on online applications directly on companies’ websites (followed by a cold email to the hiring manager whenever possible), job boards (e.g. eFinancialCareers), and also messaging people on LinkedIn.
Q: So did you start applying from abroad or only when you got there?
A: I started applying from Canada and was able to line up a few interviews for a few positions from there. Most firms outside of the bulge brackets were only interested in when I would actually arrive in Hong Kong, so you’re far better off saving your efforts for when you actually get there.
Also, personal connections are very important, especially for top-tier firms, as the screening process is just as strict as it is in North America.
Ever Heard of Investment Consulting?
Q: You said you ended up accepting an Investment Analyst position at a global investment consulting firm. Can you explain what an Analyst in investment consulting does?
A: In investment consulting, we work with pension funds, endowments, sovereign wealth funds, and foundations to design portfolio structures and implement various strategies to satisfy their risk and return objectives. We focus on asset allocation (e.g. bonds, equities, alternative assets, etc.) rather than trading specific securities.
Q: Right, so this is different from asset management because you’re not actually investing yourself?
A: Yes, we’re not talking about researching stocks/bonds and managing a portfolio – that’s the job of an investment manager.
In investment consulting, we help clients source the appropriate managers that will help them attain their risk/return objectives.
Q: Can you explain what you mean by “sourcing investment managers”?
A: I mean that once we have established the client’s risk tolerance and have built an investment strategy, we will refer our client to an asset management institution that actually buys and sells securities for them and manages their portfolio (the investment manager).
For example, we might refer our client to JP Morgan Asset Management for an equity mandate and to PIMCO for a bond mandate. In this example, JP Morgan and PIMCO are the investment managers.
Focus on Recruiting
Q: Going back to recruiting, what strategy would you recommend to readers looking to break into finance in HK? Online applications? Networking with alumni? Cold calling?
A: It depends on the job. For IB and S&T at top-tier firms, on-campus recruitment from a target school domestically or abroad is still your best bet.
For other roles like asset management, I feel networking is best, as many of those firms do not have large graduate classes that warrant on-campus recruitment. It definitely helps if you’re from a target school since you get the benefit of the brand name.
I haven’t actually tried cold calling before, but I think it could work – I actually had good success with cold emails here, which then translated into real calls, despite those persistent rumors that networking “doesn’t work” outside North America.
Q: So let’s say I am not from China or Hong Kong, and I don’t speak the language – could I still get a job? In other words, do foreigners stand a chance?
A: In my group, coincidentally, most people are Canadian-Chinese. We also have senior consultants from Europe and Australia, so it’s quite diverse overall. Out of my team of 25, I would say 30% are Canadian-Chinese, 30% are locals and the rest are from all over the world.
Most of the team is not from Hong Kong, so you would actually stand a good chance here even if you were a foreigner.
Q: So just to clarify, you’re saying that Mandarin and/or Cantonese are not necessary?
A: The language requirements depend on the type of firm and the group you’re in:
- Investment Banking / Private Equity: Pretty much required to be fluent in written and spoken Mandarin because you do so much work with mainland Chinese clients.
- Trading: Not necessary at all because everything is in English and the markets are global.
- Sales: Language skills are more important because you’re talking to clients all day.
- Investment Consulting: Language skills are not required, but they’re definitely helpful for the juniors.
Foreigners in senior positions on my team only speak English. Juniors here – especially Chinese applicants – are better off being fluent in English, with working knowledge (conversational skills and some reading & writing) of Mandarin and/or Cantonese.
The majority of our deliverables are in English so that’s our primary language in writing and presenting. However, some domestic clients do prefer Chinese in communicating and even in reports.
Mandarin language skills are definitely becoming more important because a lot of incoming business is from mainland China. And most of the growth comes from the mainland and Taiwan, since other regions are saturated.
Q: OK, so it sounds like foreigners might actually stand a chance – at least in certain areas of finance.
What’s the interview process like?
A: I had 5 rounds of interviews which included fit and technical questions, a short writing exercise (responding to a client request) and a stats exercise (think CFA Level 1 statistics).
Five rounds is more than what you would typically see – 3 or 4 would be the norm for this type of position. The overall process took 1 month from the first interview to the offer.
The first few rounds were similar and I received both fit and technical questions. They focused mostly on fit in the 3rd and 4th rounds. All interviews were in person and were conducted by 1 or 2 interviewers, except for the last one which was a group interview in front of 7-8 people.
For that last interview the candidates had to work together as a group to solve and present a case. We were given information on a list of investment managers and had to structure a portfolio by determining the asset allocation and selecting an appropriate manager line-up. We had an hour to prepare and 15 minutes to present and answer follow-up questions from the panel.
Side Note: Yes, assessment centers make their appearance once again – you could potentially see them almost anywhere outside of North America.
Q: So what were the actual questions like? I’m assuming the “technical” questions were more about the markets and pitching stocks?
A: Yes – be prepared to discuss the markets and/or pitch a stock.
Also understand how risk/return dynamics tie into each other within a portfolio. Interviewers will not typically go as in-depth on the markets as in IB or S&T interviews, but you still need to know the basics.
For the fit part, you will not get the “burn the midnight oil” questions you would hear in IB interviews – but you will get questions on your organizational, problem solving, communication, and other soft skills.
In investment consulting, you become a “Jack of all trades”. You therefore do not need to be an expert in any area (as a junior), but you do need to have broad knowledge of everything. Consultants must be able to talk about the markets, politics, asset classes, custodians, asset managers, risk management, and so forth.
Q: Since you’ve worked both in North America and in Hong Kong, what would you are the key differences in terms of CVs, the recruiting process, interviews?
A: In HK, assessment centers are the norm. Also, you will most likely be asked to complete an online test and/or one during the interview. Everything else is pretty similar. The same one-page layout for CVs is the norm for junior positions.
The interview process depends more on the firm type, their size, and the group you’re aiming for, so that one isn’t as related to North America vs. HK.
Q: Finally, the million dollar question: Bcom vs. Msc vs. MBA vs. CFA – What’s the best?
A: Ah, the debate that’s been raging since the beginning of time! I have to say a brand-name school is still the most highly valued. Asia in particular still places a premium on brand-name schools for top-tier firms.
But it gets more flexible once you hit second-tier firms – and most jobs that require or prefer a Master’s degree are related to strategic, economic, or quant work.
For everything else, it depends on your personal situation – the Msc is more useful for rebranding / grade-boosting purposes, the MBA is better if you’re making a big career transition, and the CFA is most helpful if you want to do portfolio management or something else in the public markets and you already have solid work experience and good grades.
Mandarin language skills are definitely a plus, and if you’ve had the opportunity to study or work in China, that would also be a plus.
Q: Great, this concludes part 1 of our interview. Thanks for your time – very interesting!
A: My pleasure – looking forward to part 2!
Still to Come…
Stay tuned for part 2 of this interview where we will learn all about investment consulting with a special focus on Hong Kong: a day in the life, work culture, salaries, exit opps and everything else you need to know.
I would add “models and bottles” to that list as well, but as a female I’d feel weird doing so (sorry, Brian!).
The Financial Globe-Trotter started investing at age 11, after drawing inspiration from It’s a Wonderful Life. She’s from Canada, has worked in private equity, and is now enrolled in a Master’s Program at a top European school.
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Great post. However, I somewhat have doubts of one moving into more senior/partner levels or PE/HF in HK/China without the ability to speak their language. Hence, do you know of any people who have successfully made the transition from HK to US/UK office in junior levels? (analyst/associate)
Another note, not related to this post. Seems like MSFT and YHOO are finally talking mergers, which models we’ve already built in BIWS :) Do I smell insider trading?
It really depends on the role. PE – yes you should speak the language unless you know LPs and are looking into fundraising roles (target audience non Chinese). HF – depends on your fund. If you’re in trading role (global fund) I don’t think you really need to speak the language.
From HK to US/UK office? I don’t personally know of people but I hear of people transferring back to US/UK.
Nope, not insider trading. Brian is just smart.
And just to add to that, the MSFT/YHOO models in the course were developed years before this recent news. If a deal actually takes place in the near future I might revise them to base them on that deal instead. Insider trading: I don’t even invest in the public markets, but otherwise an interesting theory…
Hi, a quick question about unofficial transcript. There’s something wrong with my school’s system – I can’t print it out. So can I just self report my scores using a spreadsheet template? Thanks
Yes. If they ask you to verify your scores, tell them to contact your school or have your school send them a proper transcript
Is it absolutely (or close to) impossible to break into investment banking in HK if you are not fluent in Mandarin?
A lot of people I know who work in HK don’t speak Mandarin.
Heard mixed reports on that one, but for IB – at least in M&A-type roles – they heavily favor Mandarin speakers. I’m sure people get in occasionally without it, but it’s more difficult. Probably easier to break in in other areas without language skills.
I’ve was in IB in HK for 3 years. When I first arrived they were still hiring non-mandarin speakers like myself but that has changed and Mandarin is now almost a must if you’re a fresh grad. The language requirement also applies for everyone I’ve known moving from banking to PE
The only exceptions are if you’re an associate and above, and/or the bank needs someone to focus on deals outside of China
Also I have known people who can speak just enough to get them through IB interviews but are not a native fluency in reading and writing (and work on that after they start)
Thanks for your input John! I agree with you
My roommate just joined GS IBD HK. He tells me that all his class are pretty fluent in Mandarin. He is also Chinese-American.
Thanks for your input, Paulson!
Brian I agree. Adding to that, Jack, you will also be dealing with mainland Chinese clients in IB, ECM and PE all the time. Unless you work in roles that don’t require you to interact with Chinese clients (and there are many roles like this), you will need to speak Mandarin. Even a majority of sales-trading, sales & equity research roles here require you to speak the language
Thanks for the helpful post. From your experience, do you know if there is a Mandarin requirement for roles at investment managers?
PMs? A lot of PMs I met in HK speak Cantonese/Mandarin because they need to go to China to evaluate investments. However, I believe some PMs here still don’t speak the language either because (1) they have a team of native Mandarin speakers to help them (2) they invest outside of China
Hi,
Sorry for the random question, but was just wondering if I’m slowly getting too old for banking – I’ve done 2 years audit at big 4, 1.5 years corporate development at small shop (where funding dried up), 1.5 years big 4 TAS valuations (tough economy at the time).
Realistically, also wondering if I’m positioned competitively for f500 corp dev now.
Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks!
Probably too much experience for an analyst role at this point – might be better to do corp dev and then move into banking as an associate if possible
I have another random question for you: Im currently a student but have been interested in investment banking for quite some time. But my problem is that ive been suffering from migraine attacks (runs in my family) and im now starting to worry if IB is even an option if this becomes a regular thing, say once every month or so..?
Yes. IB might not be the best choice if you want good health
Im not sure if i understand your answer. Having good health is not my highest priority. My question was more about if it’s possible to combine IB with getting knocked out For 4 hours around once every 2 months? I probably know the answer to that tho…
No. That is what I meant.
Who conducts Background check in banks? HRs?
Usually they outsource it to a background check agency
A quick question regarding Resume. I know that it makes no sense to put English in the Language Skills. So, ok, I’m Asian, and I’m fluent in Mandarin. Will I be mistaken for some fob who doesn’t speak English if I omit English all together?
Good question. No I don’t think you need to put English on your resume if you studied in a US/UK school.
If English is your second language and Mandarin is your first language, perhaps you should make it clear
Since we’re on the topic of jobs in HK/China,
how would you say these local schools are regarded
by firms/offices in HK/China?
1. University of Hong Kong
2. Hong Kong University of Science & Technology
3. Chinese University of Hong Kong
2 for business. then 1. then 3. It depends on the candidate’s quality too
Nicole, I’ve heard from some people that although those are good schools, they perform very poorly in terms of investment banking / S&T job placements, especially at bulge bracket banks compared to schools in US. Meaning, HK offices are more likely to pick someone from NYU or Cornell for FT offers than those from HK/China schools.
Having worked in Hong Kong, how true would you say that statement is? How many HKU, HKUST, U of Beijing grads haven you seen working for top departments at top banks?
Yes you are right but you asked me to rank those schools so I did.
Very true. Not many. the ones who do are usually brilliant
Other than the brand name of US schools, most students who studied abroad are more presentable (in general) and can speak fluent English..banks like that. However appearance can be deceiving….
You’re nicer than Brian. He would’ve thought ranking schools is a waste of time.
Doesn’t this seem excessive? 5 interviews, for what 100-120k a year? Where you need 400k USD to live well in HK.
(as yourself, if you had a great model to take public how long would it take to raise 100x that and how much shit would you have to put up with?)
These firms deal with millions of dollars of investment decisions a day, when you break it down, an employee is does not get paid the whole wack upfront but just 4-5k every 2 weeks, no parachute, no 24 months severance package. This isn’t a lot of money.
No real commitment on the part of the employer, but to apply to get a job you have to commit a month to the interview process?
This makes no sense to me.
Welcome to life. It’s an unfair process and highly inefficient, but that’s the way the job market (mostly finance) works. I don’t really think you need $400K USD to live well in HK, especially since many firms pay for housing for ex-pats, although it depends on what your definition of “live well” is. Plenty of people make less and seem to be able to live with it.
I really don’t think you need 400K USD. Maybe you’re too addicted to models and bottles.
I was wondering what your thoughts were on getting an Msc
Or Mfin at a hong kong university are….
In terms of background I was born in china, moved to the US young and grew up speaking English with my parents. I attend a semi target and have picked up mandarin (now at a pretty strong conversational level). I worked at a fund placement agency in shanghai this summer and was able to get three first rounds at BBs in HK for sales but did not get called back. I really want to work in HK and I think my options now are to 1) move there and network on the ground to get a job before the 3 month visa expires, or 2) get a masters there and hope to go through on campus recruiting again.
Thoughts?
#2 is probably easier in HK because networking is more hit-or-miss, at least for S&T-type roles. Maybe do some networking first and see what results you get after a few months, and if that leads nowhere go through OCR via a Master’s program.
I am a Silicon Valley engineer and want to move to HK and work in i-bank, as it seems to be the only job that pays equivalent to US salary.
Top-tier MBAs are expensive to get. I noticed HKUST’s MBA is ranked #6 in the country. I have been wondering how HK IBs see it. Is it equivalent to a Columbia or Wharton? How about its exchange program which allows students to exchange at schools like LBS or Columbia? Does that add any value?
Basically, I am wondering if HKUST is a good value. The tuition is half of US private schools. Will the chances of getting a global ibank Associate level job from HKUST be comparable to a top-tier US school?????????
No. Not really.
No. I don’t think so.