How to Break Into Investment Banking If You Have a 3.0 GPA, Graduated from an Unknown School, and Only Recently Learned English
How do you break into investment banking if you don’t have a 4.0 GPA from an Ivy League school?
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For one, you don’t use the “typical” strategies. You need to think less like the average person breaking in and more like a ninja – like the readers in the video above did. Here’s a summary in text form:
Case Study #1: Recent Immigrant at Non-Target with 0 Finance Experience
Here’s his story:
- Immigrated to US 4 years ago with minimal knowledge of English at the time – nowhere near enough to work in finance.
- Went to an unknown state school with few alumni in finance and no on-campus recruiting.
- Had 0 finance experience when he went to look for internships – just the standard on-campus part-time jobs.
That background definitely puts you at a disadvantage – and you’re even worse off if you’re using the wrong strategies:
- Poor Positioning – From this background you need to spin and make relevant non-work experience seem like work experience – so if you’ve gone through a bulge bracket training workshop that only lasted a few weeks, that needs to be front-and-center anyway.
- Applying Online – This is useless most of the time anyway, but even more so when you’re coming from a non-traditional background.
- Mass Cold-Emails – If you have a blue-chip background and brand names on your resume, maybe they’ll respond… but bankers mostly ignore emails.
What Worked
Realizing this was not working, he changed his strategy:
- Proper Positioning – Exaggeration is key from this type of background, so he highlighted the workshop experience and minimized his “real” work experience.
- Cold-Calling – By using the scripts and templates in The Investment Banking Networking Toolkit, he got a much better response rate. It’s hard to pitch your story properly over email or online – they’re too impersonal.
- Being Direct with Alumni – If you only have 1 month before internships begin, forget about “getting to know” them and ask for the job. There were only a few alumni in finance from his school, but that actually helped him in this case: he stood out because hardly anyone else ever contacted them.
The result: 2 finance internship offers, plus “soft offers” from others he had contacted while networking.
Get the full story and see the email where he explains everything right here.
Case Study #2: Recent Graduate from Non-Target with 3.0 GPA
This reader was even worse off:
- Non-Target State School – No alumni network to tap into, and no banks that recruited on-campus.
- 3.0 GPA – Not terrible, but not good enough to get into banking through the normal channels. Most places don’t pay attention to you if you have under a 3.5.
- Already Graduated – He was out of school for a month before he started seriously looking for jobs. Oops.
So coming from this background, how do you even start recruiting? You apply online to hundreds of banks, of course! And you use other ineffective strategies:
- Not Filtering Your “List” – You need to track your networking efforts, but you also need to target the right firms – big mistake to aim for bulge bracket and middle-market banks with this background.
- Applying Online – It was even more useless here. But it was easy – the barriers to entry are low, so why not just apply to 150 places?
- Doostang – I get a LOT of questions on this one. As this reader found out firsthand, it was useless for investment banking jobs because he got a 0% hit rate from the dozens of applications he submitted.
Doostang might work well if you’re coming from more of a “blue-chip” background – but if you don’t have brand-name schools and company names on your resume, you’re at a big disadvantage.
Just look at their “Success Stories” page: Dartmouth, Stanford, Yale… what about the unknown state schools?
They’re not there – because applying online only works if you look “impressive” on paper.
What Worked
Realizing all of the above, this reader signed up for Breaking Into Wall Street and for the Investment Banking Networking Toolkit when we released them in April and changed his strategy accordingly:
- Regional Boutiques – You need to filter your list with this type of background – start out somewhere local, and then make the lateral move when you want to move up.
- Cold-Calling MDs – He got a 50% response rate from Managing Directors at local boutiques – and no one outright rejected him. Going to the MDs first was a smart strategy, because they decide who gets interviews and offers.
- My Calling Scripts – Yes, yes, this one is tongue-in-cheek. But here’s the quick takeaway: if something works, use it. Too often you try to re-invent the wheel, but with networking and cold-calling, use what has gotten other people interviews and offers.
The result: 2 summer internship offers. I emailed him the other day to check in and learned that he’s now a full-time investment banking analyst at the firm he worked at over the summer.
Get the full story from him and read his email right here.
How to Ninja Your Way In
It’s not difficult, but you do need to think outside-the-box and do things differently from the average person with perfect grades at an Ivy League school.
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If a bank asks you to send them “SAT scores and ACT if applicable” and you took both tests, but did better on the ACT, is it alright to only include the ACT as if you never took the SAT?
I would not do that – they will assume you got a very, very low score if you do. Unless you got below, say, a 1200 or an 1800 in the new system I would keep it in.
Brian
I’ve been able to talk to certain people over the phone. However, the conversations mostly have a casual and informational tone. I try to segway and imply the possibilities of joining the firm or sending my resume.. Sometimes they say something like “keep me updated in the future if you have any more Q’s, etc”
Can I directly ask them if I could forward them my resume and that I want to join their firm or is this too direct?? My Alumni database explicitly states that asking for offers is a big no-no and that contact should be informational based. I don’t want to just chat forever so can you let me know if its proper etiquette in IB (even support services) to ask directly if I can forward my resume asap and let me know of opportunities??
PS The 2 times I did this they forwarded me to the company website to upload my resume. Can I also ask if I use them as a referral or is that awkward since I’ve just started speaking with them? Time is of essence for me, so I need to be pushy without being annoying. Thanks.
I would not ask about sending your resume – as the conversation draws to a close I would say, “Thanks for speaking with me. By the way, if I have anymore questions do you mind if I contact you?” or better yet, ask explicitly for referrals or ask specifically how their recruiting process works at the end… that will then prompt them to ask for your resume or give you further instructions.
Going it from the “send your resume” angle is the wrong approach – if you’ve spoken with them once, I would just follow-up and say, “With recruiting season approaching, I just wanted to see how I could best position myself for an interview with your firm.” That doesn’t violate any rules because you’re not asking for an offer.
Getting forwarded to the website is useless – if they tell you to do that, say that you’ve applied through the website before but have not gotten any response in the past and you were speaking with them because of that very fact – tell them that you know having a real person pass your resume along makes far more of a difference.
This is kinda off topic, but I’ll ask anyways.
We know about your “Worst week ever in I-banking”. But what about your best week ever? Are there ever any times where really not much is going on and you can get away with working 50 or – gasp! – 40 hours that week (assuming you’re not on vacation of course for some of it)?
No. Maybe at a really small boutique or maybe during Christmas week, but other than that I’ve never seen that happen. You should go in assuming that you will have no free time, at least in the first year.
Wow… I think I’d probably be dizzy or puke or have some allergic reaction if there was a 50 hour work week all of a sudden in my team. Or I would probably think it’s some kind of a sick joke…
ill soon be in the position of guy #2.. does australia even have regional boutiques.. wot em i ment 2 do lol
Yes, Australia has regional boutiques… in fact I have a list of local firms in Australia. They may be harder to find vs. other regions, but the same tactics will work there.
Hi, I am wondering are there any thing possible that I can start my career in Investment Banking, if I have a GPA 1.9 (57.3%) and I have an Internship experience in one of the big 4 Accounting Firms? Moreover, I am now doing the CFA LEVEL ONE PROGRAM.
BTW, could you please show me the list of Australian regional boutiques?
Thank you very much.
With a 1.9 GPA it will be nearly impossible to get into most investment banks unless you catch a lucky break. You could try cold-calling local boutiques, but honestly I would be lying if I said you had a good shot. You can find a partial list of boutiques here:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/regional-boutiques
Or a more complete one here:
http://breakingintowallstreet.com/biws/networking-ninja-toolkit-2-0/
Thank you very much for your time!
It’s been 4 days that I read your articles, and they are great!
Well, actually I am an international student and the first year for my university was a disaster.
However, I improved my GPA to 2.1 and 2.4 in the following two years, and I have an internship experience in one of the big 4 accounting firms. Furthermore, I speak Chinese.
Besides, I am doing bodybuilding and studying the CFA.
Is there anything I can do now to get a better chance, e.g. a Master in Finance or just find a job in Finance or Accounting industry? I know the chance would be minimized, but we only live once isn’t it?
Thanks a gain and have a nice day!
With a gpa of 2.1 how did you get a big four internship? what did you play up? what school do you go to? which big four was it?? please reply back to me…my e-mail is mandy.windon@gmail.com
Your best bet is to get into a top school for a Master’s program. Banks don’t care about language abilities, how much you can bench, or the CFA – they want brand names, high GPAs, and good work experience.
Thank you very much.
Now I have a clear goal.
Have a nice day!
Will you happened to have a list of regional boutiques for the Asia-Pacific area?? I try look for one in the net and I cant rly find much except the one from WallStreetOasis.
Thanks
It’s part of the Networking Ninja Toolkit, which is being released on Monday.
hey M&I, would u please send me this list of regional boutiques, I’ve had alot of trouble finding any.
thanks :)
Australia~
It’s part of the Networking Ninja Toolkit, which will be released on Monday.
Since the posts are not dated, can u please specify the date when the toolkit will b released?
It’s out! http://breakingintowallstreet.com/biws/networking-ninja-toolkit/
Does this apply to people who are fairly recent grads? I graduated for a mid-teir state school. How should I consider breaking into banking? Going back for my MS in Finance at a target school?
You could do that if you can afford to wait a few more years… if not, then cold-calling combined with any other networking efforts you can take advantage of is your best bet for getting into the industry.
It’s always “easier” to go to a better school and use recruiting there, but it comes down to whether you can afford the time/money.
Hey, my situation is EXACTLY like case study #2 so this gives me a bit of hope.
I recently found an internship from a company that has some alumni who work there. What ninja tactics would you recommend since I want to apply ASAP? Thanks!
Call the alum asap, spend 10 minutes asking him about his background, then make your last 3-4 questions related to actually getting a job there. You absolutely must call 1 alumni and maybe more than that if you really want it – forget about JUST applying online or through the website.
What if my case is 1+2. What do I do then? I’m guessing I should follow your advice for both 1 and 2.
Yup. Actually the advice is not much different – you need to be extremely proactive if either one of these applies to you.
I was hoping to get a little advice on my career search. I graduated college about 2 years ago and have been working as an analyst at an independent broker/dealer since 2007. My undergraduate degree is in finance with a 3.99 GPA overall. However, I attended a non-target state school and have had no luck in gaining entrance, or really even a call back, from any IBs I have applied to. Do you have any advice on what I might do to help get even an interview? Thank you for your time and any help!
P.S. I will be purchasing the Network Ninja toolkit this week.
If you don’t have many alumni from your school, your best option is cold-calling local firms. I’d also ask around at your firm and see if anyone might know bankers / financiers, and go through any other professional referrals you have. With your background, you absolutely need to call places – forget about applying online, email, or any traditional channels. Pound the pavement.
I searched all over the place on the internet but couldn’t find any kind of a list of boutiques in Canada. I live in Vancouver but I don’t mind moving to Toronto if there are boutiques around. Help?!
You can look in the regional boutique thread on WSO, or look in the Networking Ninja Toolkit:
http://breakingintowallstreet.com/biws/networking-ninja-toolkit-2-0/
Hi M&I, thanks for putting up this helpful site. I have a situation similar to case #2. When I called the boutique banks, most of the times the receptionist/secretaries wouldnt connect me to the person that could actually make the decision. What would you suggest me to do? Also i am interested in trading and security research and analysis, is being a stock-broker a good way to start? Appreciate for all the help.
Stock broker is generally not the best way to get there but it can work.
As far as getting past the receptionist, sometimes you just need to call back at different times (before or after they get in / leave), try to get a different person, or if none of that works give them a specific name and say that you’re scheduled to speak with that person.
I’ve been searching for trading firms in san francisco bay area but had no luck. Is there a list of trading companies or hedge funds similar to that of i-banks on WSO online?
Not that I know of – your best bet is Capital IQ (find someone who has access, then do a search for trading firms in a specific area). The lists inside the Networking Toolkit offered on this site only include banks, PE firms, and hedge funds.
Say now you had a 2.6 GPA for 1st year and 2nd year, but in your final 2 years you get a 3.6+, do banks care that you did bad in first 2 years, or do they only care about your final year and postgrad marks?
They look at everything. You can try to list your “Final 2 Year GPA” or something on your resume but you need to list cumulative as well.
Hi,
I was wondering if simply being foreign (Australian citizen) puts me at a disadvantage in the NYC process. I will have spent all of high school and college in the US, but are employers more reluctant because of visas and such?
Thank you.
If you are not a US citizen it is almost impossible to work in the US due to the crazy government and their immigration policies.
This will be a good 6-7 years in the future, after TARP no longer applies. Aside from that, plenty of people are still legally immigrating, aren’t they?
Also, Australians have access to a special visa (E-3) that has a separate quota and can be renewed indefinitely.
I’m really not an expert on immigration law so I couldn’t tell you – you may want to ask someone more knowledgeable on the subject. All I know is that it has been very difficult to get a work visa in the US since September 11, 2001. It might be easier for Australians but not certain.
What about an international student who is studying in the senior year of a US business school? What is the right strategy?
It’s not much different – only thing is that you need to take into account visa issues and which banks are more/less likely to help you there… sometimes smaller banks are problematic.
Then should I ever bring up that I am an international student and need visa sponsorship during networking or interviewing? Is it better to find out about the policy in the beginnin with the small banks or maybe later in the process (could take me further but maybe a waste of time in the end)?
Thanks!
I would bring it up once you’re at the interview stage / have done well in the first round or two because they might get annoyed if they only find out later on and are unable to sponsor you.
Looking for some advice here. I attend a highly targeted school and compete on a NCAA Varsity team. The problem is my GPA. It’s pretty bad. Right now (I’m a sophomore) it’s sitting around a 2.5 I expect it to go up in the coming semesters but it will be hard to get it to jump much. What kind of opportunities am I looking at?
Thanks.
With a 2.5, not much, banking will be almost impossible unless you network like crazy and even then it will be tough. Other industries like corporate finance might be possible but you should try to boost it to at least a 3.0.
Say I’m from one of the big ten schools and that I have a overall 2.9 gpa majoring in Finance. My major gpa is lower than my overall gpa by .3 . So, I never list my major gpa on my resume. How are my chances of getting an internship over this summer?
Not good unless you have already networked a lot
Hi i am looking for an internship with the big four. I go to the number one accounting school in the world haha or atleast that’s what I’ve heard. They recruit HEAVILY at my school. I am in the big leagues with the top students from Texas, however I transferred in to the program and did not realize the rigor of the program until it was too late and a family emergency (father in Iraq->Afganistan) fell in to my lap as well as working 30+ hours a week and being a leader in one of the organizations held me back from excelling in my accounting classes (that go towards my accounting GPA). I ended up with a 2.1 Gpa for accounting and overall a 3.3 (previously I had no accounting GPA and had a 3.7). We are about to drop for resumes and am still in the process of a recruiting event for KPMG and PWC. Do ya’ll recommend putting my Accounting gpa on my resume? At UT we are required to do so, but my career advisor said its up to me since it is so low. He told me there is a 99.9% chance of them asking me about my GPA regardless, so I can either be upfront with it on my resume or hide to try and get through the interview process. My advisor also recommended me to not tell the recruiter my situation prior to dropping my resume. Can ya’ll address this issue please?
I would just list it because they’ll find out anyway. The only way around this situation is to network with people at the Big 4 and hope that someone sympathizes – will be difficult to get in via official channels.
Hi, just want to say your advice is extremely clutch.
I am currently a senior from a target school with a 3.0 GPA looking to break into IBD/possibly PE (seeing some undergraduate positions offered) with 2 months left to graduate. Do you have any specific advice regarding how I should attack the networking/ job game?
Also, what do you think are some good plan b/ re-branding strategies that I should consider?
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/recruiting/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/recruiting-in-down-market-part-4-plan-b-options/
Hi, first off, thank you for this great website and the information that you’ve put on here.
I graduated with a 3.1 (back in 2007) from a non-target (a UC school right below UCLA’s ranking). I’m now going to be attending one of the top 15 b-schools and while I know all the major BBs will recruit on campus, how much will the undergrad GPA play into the admission process for BB, even at the MBA level?
It will be a factor but you can still get in, at the MBA level it matters less
I have a 3.0 GPA at a school in canada which does get recruiters from all of the big banks. I’m working at an Asset Management firm this summer and have worked in a retail branch as well as in property taxes. I’m going into my third year in economics. Further more I’ve been networking and meeting investment bankers and managing consultants at TD, CIBC and Deloitte. Will my 3.0 GPA shut the door on a chance for an interview?
Not if you keep networking a lot
For my story or pitch, you recommend people say that I used to be interested in some field but i want to be a venture capitalist in the future. Wouldn’t that give off the impression that you are using IBD to get to what you want and probably wont stay there for a long time? Is that ok?
That was just an example I used when interviewing for tech IB groups. You should not use it unless you are interviewing for something related to VC.
I apologize if the answer to this question may be somewhat obvious but I was wondering if there was a template or guideline for appropriate language that should be used when cold calling local boutiques. I am still in college majoring in Accounting and Economics with a 3.33 GPA from arizona state with work experiences in financial services and executive leadership. Thank you for your help.
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/turn-cold-calls-warm-follow-up-alumni-conversations/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/cold-calling-investment-banking/
I have been a fairly avid reader of the site, though I have never directly contributed in discussion and what not. But I really feel like I have to say this, whether it is appropriate or not. I am truly very happy for those people and I found that podcast very uplifting. It just gives me hope for those who have not been raised in situations which would normally place them into the role of an investment banker, and I love how you are opening the doors for those who truly had no faith until now that they could actually accomplish their goals. I will continue to read and learn from this gem of a site. Though I do have time ahead of me, it can’t hurt to look ahead!
Thank you for your kind comment
Hey Brian,
I applied to a BB bank and passed the first two interviews no problem. A couple days before my scheduled final interview, I get a call from HR telling me that because my gpa did not meet the 3.5 requirement I was no longer in consideration. I told her that her decision was inappropriate because the first two interviewers knew perfectly well that I had a 3.3 gpa. I tried to convince her to let me go to the final interview, but she reasoned out that she could not make an exception because of legal matters. She stated that if they advertise a certain gpa requirement and interview someone below that requirement, they would be breaking the law. Is this legal mumbo jumbo that she’s feeding me a bunch of bs? because I’ve heard of other candidates with below a 3.0 getting interviews and offers from BBs. Thanks in advance.
I don’t think the law is involved. However, the firm might have an “implicit” policy to only accept candidates above a certain GPA (3.5). You might want to speak w your interviewers. There might also be other reasons like insufficient headcount etc. I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Sometimes these things can’t be controlled
Yeah that’s true, I guess it just wasn’t my lucky day. My next question is: if I network within the bank and get chummy enough with the senior bankers, can an MD override HR’s gpa requirement and bring me in for an interview?
Yes. MDs can override anything and they often do.
I love this website, gives me so much hope. Thanks Brian
Hello, this is the first time I’m writing and I should say I’m getting a little bit worried with this 3.5 GPA or higher situation. I’m from Lisbon, I go to the top business school in Portugal and I’m in the third semester (3/6) and these are my grades 15.1/20 (GPA=3.0?) (I’ll do a Masters in Finance afterwards). I thought these grades were good enough (quite above average, only about 15/20 people out of 350/400 have grades above 17.5/20 (GPA=3.5)), however it seems that they might not be. I guess my question is, what’s the “market value” of my grades and school if I want to get into Investment Banking?
Thanks in advance (if you want/need more info ask)
It really depends on whether school is a target school or not. I’m not quite sure about your system; you’d be better off speaking to bankers in Portugal and see what they think
But how do I know if my school in target school?
Here are some of the rankings in FT or others.
Financial Times
European Business School – 39
Masters in Management – 64, CEMS (2nd)
Masters in Finance – 29
The rising stars ranking (MBA) – The Lisbon MBA (14th)
CEMS shool of the year – 2010, 2011
What do you think? What defines a target school?
Thanks in advance
It depends on whether or not banks and other finance firms recruit people for front-office jobs there. In most countries in Europe there are only a few target schools. So, chances are that if it’s ranked above 10 then it’s not a target school.
How could you break in to Big 4 Advisory, Transaction Services or Risk. Does networking work for Big 4? Some friends did not network and still get job at Big 4. What are your thoughts?
Networking still works but may not be 100% necessary with Big 4 because they do more on-campus recruiting even when the economy is bad.
Brian,
Would be interested in hearing your opinion on studying for an online financial management certificate from Cornell University. Since I don’t have an Ivy League school to put on my resume, can doing an online course with a prestigious institution help add some pedigree to the same? I know it’s obviously not the same as actually doing a full degree at Cornell, but would you consider it of any value from a hiring perspective?
It can add some value though I’m not quite sure how useful it is.
Hey
I go to a semi target school and my GPA is around a 3.2. I have 3 finance internships (all at reputable firms like ING, etc) and since next summer is my junior year i would love to have a BB internship (haha so does everyone else).
My family has a few MD, ED, contacts in them. How should i apply? Should i apply online or email them to forward my resume?
Thank you
LowGPAnightmares
I’d do both at the same time and ask for referrals
Out of curiosity how much pull does a MD have? I want to apply for the IBD division but lets say my MD friend is at S&T. Can he still help me? or would it be better if I applied to the S&T department?
I think he can forward your resume to the S&T heads (if he knows such contacts and chooses to do so) and this might increase your chance of landing interviews. But you might still have to apply directly to S&T if he doesn’t do so ~
Hey said he would forward my resume without a doubt. But i want to apply for M&A. Would it benefit me if he forwards my resume because hes in S&T and not M&A.
If he knows the other MDs well and he recommends you yes that may help. But this only gets you in the door. After that its all you
I have a little of example 1 and 2 going on right now. I am a very non traditional student that wants to break in. I am a 35 yo African American female that has stopped working to complete my degree in finance at a state school that I am sure few bankers have heard of. I have years of managerial, customer account or services work experience, but no background in banking. I did an internship at fidelity investments, but that was easily a decade ago. I don’t know what my gpa is off the top of my head, I know that I pass my classes, but I also know that its no 3.7. I want to do this kind of work because it is something that interests me and I feel strongly for it in I like doing my research and due diligence.. I plan on getting the networking ninja as a starter and I know that I want an internship next summer. Am I too old for that? this is a great website, so thanks for that. I want to be able to purchase and use your other products, but I need some real feedback and input. What about big companies diversity programs and stuff like that. Thanks again for all of this information
Yes if you need tips on networking, Networking Ninja will be useful for you especially given your situation. I’d suggest you to network intensively to land internships in IB. Yes you may be a bit older for most entry level roles, which is why networking is so crucial in your case – you need to network to find openings that fit you
I currently have a 3.0, and am interning at one of the top 3 insurance companies in a finance position. I am looking into possibly breaking into a trading position once I graduate. any tips?
I’d develop experience trading in markets and demonstrate your passion in finance. Networking helps too.
This article should help you http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/sales-trading-resumes/
Any tips on how to find switchboards for cold calling, specifically for London?
You can find banks’ main line through their websites
Hi,
I am an engineering major at UCLA and my GPA is around 3.2/3.3. My problem is that I failed a class few quarters before, though I am able to retake it last quarter and replace it with a better grade. I wonder if this would terminate my chance of getting into a bulge bracket with a D(retake, replaced with new GPA) in my transcript?
I don’t think the transcript matter as much as your GPA – having a GPA above 3.5 is a requirement for quite a few IB roles in order to make the first cut. To answer your question, I’d think boosting your GPA to 3.5+ will help you
I actually have another irrelevant question. I know financial modeling is important in banking. But does it help us to invest on a personal level?
Yes. Simple models will do. You can build your own model to figure out what the intrinsic value you think a stock should be..and compare that to the current stock price. Look at various other factors and then decide whether you want to invest in a stock or not. Modeling is actually a very useful tool.
I am a student at Wesleyan University, liberal arts, not a target school. I have a 3.21 GPA. I read that you suggest rounding GPA up to the nearest tenth? Is that really ok? What about applying for internships that require a 3.3?
Hmm, it’s borderline in that case, but if your grades have been improving I think you could get away with rounding up to a 3.3.
I just received my BBA in finance from a state university in Georgia (Kennesaw State U.). I’m interested in investment banking. Here is my situation:
- summa cum laude (3.9 gpa)
- no extracurricular activities (other than a part time job
- no previous finance experience
- my focus is going to be on regional boutiques. Not going to waste my time with bulge brackets
I’ve already come up with about 15 firms I plan to contact. How does my situation look so far? What are some ways that I can make my resume more attractive to an investment banking firm?
Obtaining experience and network in finance would help. Having a fun personality and being able to get along with people will help
I will definitely be networking, probably through cold calling or even informational interviews. I’ve already obtained references from two of my college professors. I’m off to a decent start but I still have a considerable amount of work to do.
With my situation, I think an internship would be the best way to gain experience. Generally larger firms require the applicant to be in school while they are interning. For example, Suntrust is currently offering a summer internship, but they make it clear that the applicant must be in school. Obviously, since I just graduated, this position probably isn’t for me. Are the rules as rigid at boutique firms? Is it common for them to hire interns who are have already graduated?
I don’t think the rules are as rigid at boutiques. They can hire interns who have already graduated though you’ll have to convince them to do so. I’d suggest you to speak with seniors in charge (i.e. MDs, Ds, etc)
Consider this: 31 years old, degree but not in finance, no internships on top of a 2.3 GPA, attended IB training course, some fin. analysis experience gained at a consulting firm, good grasp of CFA L1 material, the guy has personal trading experience and knowledge of finance is on par with a finance grad. Job experience is minimal as he’s an entrepreneur.
What are his chances of breaking in at the analyst/associate level? Should he pursue an MBA and get the internships first? And how much will networking help him at this point?
Chances are relatively slim. Pursuing an MBA may not be the best choice because he’d be older when he graduates. I’d suggest him to network a lot, speak with seniors at firms, and try to land a role through boutiques/third tier banks
I’m currently a sophomore at a public state university and I have a 3.2 GPA. I must fulfill 20 credits of electives to graduate. You say most people don’t consider people under 3.5 GPA, do you believe I should take easy courses to boost my GPA or taking meaningful courses that interests me and possibly minor in something?
If you can boost it to a 3.5 without killing yourself, yes, it’s worth it, usually it’s easier to take extra courses to do that.
Hi! I’m currently a senior graduating from a semi-target (top 50 ranked, but not ivy league) with a 3.4 gpa in finance and accounting and my only work experience is as a bank teller. My plan is to work at a boutique bank or some other kind of entry level financial analyst for a year, and while doing so, apply to some top ranked masters programs. My goal is to then get either an internship or an entry level analyst position with a mid-level or bulge bracket bank. How does this plan sound to you and is there anything I could do to improve it?
I think it sounds fine. While you are working at the boutique bank/entry level position, I’d suggest you to spend 6 months networking (while working) and see if any worthwhile opportunities come up. If not, than higher education (at a target) may be a better option.
Hello, I am a current sophomore at a non-target, but reputable state school. BBs do have a prescense on campus, but they tend to recruit only for BO/MO roles. I currently am interning in a BO role for a BB, and I have a 3.5 GPA with a finance major. I’ve done research with a finance professor, co-founded and serve as treasurer of my fraternity, and will be interning with a professor who is extremely well connected in the finance/corporate governance world this summer. Also, I served as an editor for my school’s newspaper for a full year and won awards for my writing. I have a strong interest in IB, specifically M&A, but I fear that a lack of connections/alumni in the industry will be my downfall. What do you think of my chances to land a summer analyst position next year are, assuming I improve my grades a bit from where they are?
You have got decent credentials and your chances are 50/50; you will be competing against people with FO IB experience from target schools. To increase your chances, I’d suggest you to start networking as much as you can this summer (ideally meet 2-3 people from front office a week), learn as much as you can about IB, and really hone your pitch – why you want to do IB, how you can add value, etc.
Thank you very much! I will definitely do my best to meet as many people in the FO as I can. Also, I am currently writing a lengthy research paper on MBO deal structures, do you think this would ever be worth discussing in an interview, just to further show my interest in M&A in general, or will an interviewer not really care?
Yes it will be worth discussing, as long as you know what you’re talking about because they may ask you more questions pertaining to the topic.
Hello, I am currently a senior trying to make a decision on which college to attend. My options are as follows: Go to Indiana University, try to get into their Investment Banking Workshop and from there break into investment banking (paying out of state tuition though). Second option is to go to Michigan State University, study there get a high GPA and try to break in by cold calling like you mentioned above. Or third option, go to Depaul, get a high GPA, and try and break into Investment banking through internships I could get in Chicago? Which is the best option? Indiana has very good placement with their investment banking workshop, only concern is the 120K I would spend to get an undergrad education. Is it worth it to go to Indiana?
Thanks for your help
Hi Brian,
I just had an offer at a local IB firm. However I am expected to source for companies that wanted to sell their business by cold calling. Only after that, I would be able to work on something technical. Is this normal? Don’t intern analyst only work on the technical like excel and researching?
This isn’t exactly “normal” for international IBs because most MDs already have a solid client base. However, since you’re working for a smaller regional IB firm, bankers may want more leads and want interns to cold call companies. Some IB analysts cold call companies too don’t get me wrong, but they also do technical tasks along the way so your situation is slightly unique I think.
When you say brand university, do you consider UC Berkeley as a target school? I have 3.5 GPA with hedge fund internship. Also, my cousin is at UT Austin. We are just wondering whether we can break into investment banks.
Yes, UCBerkeley is a target school, not as prominent on the East Coast as schools like Penn, Stern. Yes I believe you both have a chance of breaking in.