100 Meter Dash Q&A: Shaving, New Layout, Book Recommendations, College Majors, Breaking Into Banking, Best Cities For VC
What would you do if I told you your facial hair affected your chances of getting into finance? Some of you might nod, knowingly, while others might be reluctant to believe me.
For those who are reluctant: go shave, right now.
And then read the rest of this week’s Q&A below.
1. Must investment bankers be clean-shaven? Not that this is a deal-breaker for me, but I have a beard I really like….
Yes, they must. I’ve never seen anyone with a beard in this industry. They take appearances pretty seriously, and even something as minor as hair dye is usually not tolerated. My friend had to remove his before starting a banking internship a few years ago.
2. I got a full-time offer at a bulge bracket bank, but I want to shop it around. My former co-workers at the bank would make excellent references and are completely separate from the hiring team- would it be safe to use them when I shop my offer around? Or should I use my older references?
I strongly suggest not doing this. The market is too tough right now to risk losing your full-time offer over rumors leaking from your group to HR, and this could easily happen at a bank. Go with your old references.
3. I’m interested in investment banking, but I’ve worked for over 5 years in the entertainment industry as a director for small films. If I went to a top 10 MBA program could I still get in? Or would they question my background?
You could certainly use a top 10 MBA to re-position yourself but I’d recommend getting some business-related experience before going for your degree. It doesn’t necessarily have to be banking or finance, just anything that shows you can work in an office environment.
4. Why did you choose to do banking rather than consulting? How is the work different?
I’m sure you guys have all seen the video by now – just refer to that if you have any questions.
Real answer: There were a number of reasons, including my hatred for travel every week. I’ll cover this in more depth in the coming weeks since it’s a popular topic among college seniors in what-should-I-do-with-my-life mode.
5. I’ve been working for a few years in a finance-related role in the government. Does this count as “finance experience,” even though it’s for the government?
It’s more relevant than being a pop star or a traveling bard, but it’s less helpful than having actual finance experience at a company.
6. I really like the new layout and I feel kind of sadistic saying this, but I kind of miss the noose in your old logo…
I miss the noose too, but all good things must end. The noose was just one of the casualties of my new design. Though I was thinking about using it as a transparent background image across all my content for awhile…
7. I have 5 years of commercial banking experience – can I get into investment banking without an MBA?
Tough to do, because you’d be in between an Analyst and an Associate and banks wouldn’t know what to do with you. I would recommend business school; if you don’t want to go that route I would suggest networking your way into a smaller, local firm.
8. I graduated from a non-target school with a science major. Would an online business degree help me break in?
No. Going back for a Master’s degree in business/finance at a real university might give you a marginal boost, but getting relevant work experience, even somewhere small, would make the biggest difference.
9. Do you have any book recommendations for learning about the industry?
What, you mean besides Damn, It Feels Good To Be A Banker? If you want “non-fiction,” then check out The Accidental Investment Banker and Monkey Business. I see suggestions on other books occasionally but I haven’t read most of them so I can’t recommend much else (yet).
10. Which city is better for getting into venture capital, San Francisco or New York?
All the major VC firms are in Silicon Valley, so San Francisco is clearly better. Yes, yes, I know there are VCs in New York as well but there are far more on the West Coast.
11. What should I pick as my major in college? Do I need to do Accounting or Finance?
No, you should major in something that interests you. While Accounting/Finance classes definitely help you, getting the relevant experience helps a lot more.
12. Do you know anything about the other divisions of a bank besides investment banking?
Seriously, you clearly haven’t read the “Groups & Regions” or “Exit Opps” categories at the top.
13. I am just finishing up my undergraduate degree in finance at age 30. Can I still get into banking as an Analyst?
That’s tough – if I were you I would go for an MBA. They know 30-year olds are less likely to tolerate 90-100 hour weeks than 22-year olds are. I do know Associates who have broken in at close to 40 so that seems a lot more viable.
14. I have an upcoming “fit” interview at a bank in a few weeks. What do they look for?
The most important part is creating a solid “story” about your background and why you want to do banking. It has to be brief – 3 minutes or less – and sincere. You also need to show that you can work hard, know what you’re getting into, have a strong interest in business and can act as a leader. You also want to prove you have some quantitative ability if you’re an English major.
15. I like the new layout but there’s one problem: when I’m goofing off at work now I can’t read your site because it stands out too much!
Ok, you win – this is the one part of the new design I hadn’t considered. Maybe you can disable images in your browser so it’s not as striking? Or learn to use Alt Tab more effectively?
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No beards, check. What about mustaches or goatees, or is no facial hair at all typically required?
It might work (see: Frank Quattrone) but overall I’d recommend minimizing your facial hair.
I have a goatee and never had a problem, just make sure it’s trimmed neatly and you’re otherwise clean shaven. It’s all about performance, so just make sure you do a good job.
I am currently 20 years old, and I want to get into investment banking. I was wondering what is the best way to get in….
My first option is doing an undergraduate business course at a top business school.
My second option is to do CFA course.
My third option is to do an MsC.
I was wondering which option will best prepare me to be successful as an analyst and will also enable me to start working as soon as possible.
Thank You :)
Option 1 is best. CFA is useless, MsC is also relatively useless.
I was in banking and had a goatee and I got a top bonus….just make sure its clean…make sure you know your shit, you wear Brooks Brothers and live the “culture of wealth”
@Ashwin read the rest of the site….
Brooks Brothers is a bit too… pedestrian. You should buy everything Bespoke… unless you’re spending $10K per suit, you don’t belong in finance.
(Kidding, to anyone else reading this… if you spend $10K on a suit you will soon have no money left.)
Consultants… Aside from the video, what type of life is expected? I assume you have more of a life than an investment banker, but how much money do you make (this is just a curiosity question). If I worked at FactSet as a Consultant in the investment banking area, what type of stuff would I do and would that prepare me for a jump into Investment Banking?
Well there’s a big difference between management consultants and all other types of consultants… management consultants work a bit less in general (maybe 60-70 hour weeks vs. 90-100) but that’s tough to generalize because they also travel a lot more. They make a lot less money as well, base salary is about the same but bonuses are significantly lower.
As far as a FactSet Consultant – I would try to move to a boutique or smaller bank, there’s nothing else you can do in your current role that will help a whole lot at this point.
What exactly would you say is finance experience ? What positions and what type of companies? If there is a previous article you wrote outlining what is finance experience please post it.
Thanks
Finance experience: banking, private equity, hedge funds, business development, CFO/Treasury positions at a company, asset/wealth management, maybe a few others. Basically anything that involves business/finance and working with clients rather than supporting others.
Hi,
I was wondering about the hair dye reference. As typical of Asian girls, I have my hair highlighted brown-blond. I’m looking more at internships / full time opportunities in Asia-Pacific, would this be acceptable?
I’m actually not sure of that one, but I don’t think any of the girls I worked with had highlights. In Asia-Pac it might be more acceptable though.
On the topic of facial hair, would a cleanly cut, precise light “french beard” not be acceptable or looked down upon at interviews?
Personally I would not do that, you want to be as conservative as possible.
I’ve been reading your website for couple of months now, great stuff. Question about question #11: “What should I pick as my major in college? Do I need to do or Finance? ”
I am double majoring in Applied Mathematics/Economics (I try to take business-related classes), plan on doing IB for 2-3 years, then MBA in Finance. One of my econ professors (also works for Feds in San-Francisco) strongly advised me to take as many Statistics classes as I can, and preferably get a minor. Knowledge of three software packages Excel, MATLAB (math programming), and Minitab (computing package) would also be a great plus. And of course internship. What is your opinion about these two advices?
Beyond the basics like mean/median etc., Stats is almost useless in banking. There’s literally no advanced math, and while Excel is definitely essential, we never use MATLAB or Minitab for anything. Your professor is probably thinking more of quant-like positions.
Is it true that when your 30, you will look like 50?
Yes.
Do people get fired often?
What are your chances of becoming an MD realistically. Supposing you do the job well and put in quite a lot of effort?
And do you need to be really good at math to be good at I-banking. I have never used excel before, and so when i finished my A-levels… how do I learn to use excel efficiently and what kind of business course should i enrol myself in? E.G. BBA
Have you been reading any headlines lately? :) Yes, people get fired very often and the industry is very unstable.
From Analyst to MD… I’d say chances are maybe 1/100, you burn out along the way and lots of people realize it’s not what they were looking for in the first place. Plus it takes 10 years of never having a life.
No, you don’t need to be good at math, the math in i-banking is about as complex as 2 + 2 = 4.
damn, it does NOT feel good to be a banker right now. great inquisitor…what is opinion of the traditional IBD now that two of the biggest employers have just been wiped out. is there even the slightest chance of getting a summer analyst position now? when will the glory days of M&A return?
in addition, do you feel that boutiques like rothschild, lazard, moelis, perella, evercore will grow and fill lehman, bear, and merrill’s empty spots? is america doomed to lose its dominant position in the world of finance?
Yeah, US is pretty much screwed. And no, boutiques will never grow to be that big, market is too bad.
See my latest. Summer analysts are actually in a better position than FT people. Glory days will not return for a long time, if ever.
So why would anyone want to go into investment banking in the first place? Besides the money……
And once your fired, where do you go from then?
If you get fired btw… can u get into another investment banking firm? Or will u haveno chance because u got fired
Well it’s a lot more interesting than most jobs out there… each day is different. And some people like getting to work with big companies and advise on important matters.
If you’re fired, you could go to another firm or switch industries… but it’s harder to switch the higher up you move.
I am a college senior…due to the job market this year I have accepted an offer to work in Audit for a Big4 firm. Now I am reading on your site about how to stay away from the “back office” and am having second thoughts. I’m probably going to work in Big4 for 2 yrs….for somebody who wants to get into a finance-related field long-term, what would you recommend? Obviously it’s difficult to reposition oneself after too long in the industry.
Audit at Big 4 is still better than back office at a bank. I would try to move to the TAS group at the Big 4, though, rather than staying in Audit.
Ad 1. Shaving – not quite true, at least for internships. I landed one while sporting a goatee, albeit very neatly shaved around & trimmed. I like to think that it helps me stand out that extra bit at assessment centres if no-one else has one, and it doesn’t look shaggy/shabby at all. Just make sure it looks smart.
It might also be more acceptable outside the US – sounds like you were interviewing in Europe.
Shaved heads? No good?
Bankers are conservative… why risk it if you don’t have to
Are there any good bulge bracket firms in San Francisco or are there more VC firms?
Yes all bulge bracket banks have offices in SF
I am a uni student outside the US with 2yrs full time experience in a big 4 audit firm majoring in accounting/ finance in a single commerce degree wishing to break into m&a/ dcm or equity capital markets at a bulge bracket IB.
In the hopes of boosting my chances would it be best to transfer to law or a more quantitative major (such as statistics or actuarial science) whilst dropping either accounting or finance? I am asking this as a large majority of IB candidates here seem to be studying these degrees. My issue with this is that law/ quantitative majors are gpa killers which would not look as good on my application. I was hoping if you could shed light on this and whether law has any transferable skills in IB over a double accting/ finance major.
Thanks
It doesn’t really matter – accounting is fine for IB and actually more applicable than finance. There are some tips coming from an accounting background here: http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/breaking-into-investment-banking-accountant/
What questions do you ask an MD and VP at an informational interview?
How do we impress IBankers at a reception, lunch and meeting one banker with a group of students
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-information-sessions/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-informational-interviews/
I am a undergrad BCom student outside the US hoping to get an internship in IB over the summer. The uni says that IB employers hate seeing >1 page CV. I have a 2 page CV. If I make the whole sales pitch on the first page with all the relevant info and have the second page only to awards, is it bad enough to damage job offer chances?
Keep it to 1 page. http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-resume-university-student/
Hi Brian,
I was wondering how important transaction experience is for a incoming analyst. I am a senior in college and have a chance to intern with a boutique IB in the summer. I have the opportunity to work on the models and pitching for a 400 million and two 500 million transactions while there. Would this make me competitive for the analyst recruitment in 2012?
Sure that sounds fine… prior transaction experience is getting more important because PE firms are starting to recruit earlier and earlier.
Hi,
How will be the first day of IB anlyst?
Do I have to show up with all the stuff on the first day itself?
By stuff I mean Laptop or any other gadgets. I was planning to inquire on the first day and then buy as per the requirements.
No they give you everything
Hi,
I’m currently in a top tier regional bank in the Corp Fin/M&A dept. I’ve been here for 2 years and have been promoted rather quickly, and have had a lot of client and execution exposure but less modeling/pitching.
What are your thoughts of moving to a Bulge Bracket 1st year analyst position for much better $$/prestige and exposure to modeling/pitching, with the risk of not progressing to Associate position and less execution exposure?
My other option is a middle market private equity firm with much less $$ than the bulge bracket, and knowing that my modeling skills are not quite up to speed with the bulge bracket analysts.
My 2 yr plan is for top-tier mba/private equity.
Thks so much.
If you want to do top PE than going to the BB is your best option, MM PE could work but arguably harder to move in from there
HI,
I want to do into investment banking but I am not sure what degrees/courses I need to do. I’ve looked over your website and haven’t really found much information on what you need to do to become an investment banker, other than information on what to do when you’re already finished and looking for a job.
Also could you recommend any Business schools or universities which are best for Investment banking in New York.
There’s an outline of what you have to do here: http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/banker-blueprint/
Also here for major: http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-major/
Basically, pick a major where you can get a high GPA at a school that a lot of banks recruit and get finance-related internships. I do not write about specific schools because it results in stupid time-sucking arguments about which one is the best, but generally the top 10-15 in the US are good bets (with some exceptions e.g. Caltech).
Cheers for the reply.
Hi just thought i would mention that I broke into the industry with a beard (a boutique mind you) but also got to final rounds for BB and it was a non-issue. In fact, I’m of the opinion that if you look smart and can talk the talk something that makes you stand out is a good thing. I’m in Australia btw. Oh and great site- I used it extensively to prepare!
Hi,
I graduated last year from a top UK uni with an Engineering degree, and am currently working in Loan Syndication in Asia. As I started working, I realise that my interest lies more on IBD and would really like to make a career change. May I know if you could share some view on how shall I make the best from my current job to leverage my experience in preparation for any IBD opportunities, please? Many thanks!
P.S I posted this question in another article but haven’t heard back after some time.. so hope it’s fine that I post it here =)
It was answered on the other thread. I attempt to answer questions when I can but to be honest some days there are 50-100 questions received and it takes hours to go through everything, so normally I only respond once or twice a week in the interest of efficiency.
Re: ‘This is the 30 second answer to a question I could write a book about.’
You should!!
Hi Brian,
I want to start a Mergers & Acquisitions Club at my University, but I don’t want to drone on with lectures, and news updates. I want to make it fun, and interactive; possibly even create a game-like aspect of the club. I want to attract people to it, and really get things moving. I think it will be a great idea for interested students, and a learning experience for me as well. Any ideas?
-Ram
Sure that’s fine, just make sure you have other activities or you might look odd to bankers (they want people with interests outside of finance too). I am actually not that interested in the subject myself (ironic, right) but your ideas sound good.
Hi Brian,
I want to thank you for this awesome site that you have provided. I’d be lost without it. I’ve been going through your site daily and I have to say, I’m pretty overwhelmed on how to use it efficiently. Sometimes I jump from recruiting to resumes to groups & regions because all the information is so interesting and valuable.
Do you have a recommendation on how to better use your information in more of a chronological manner?
Thanks,
Obi
That’s a good question – unfortunately I don’t have a great answer there because there’s so much content (and so many comments) to go through. I would say do a search for whatever you’re most interested in and start there. So if you want to do PE, maybe just go through all the PE-related articles sequentially. If your interest is broader, I don’t yet have a good way to go through everything but will see if there’s a way to do that.